New-style Paper Tickets

[alistairlees]

Oh yes there is but why finish one project off when the next shiny project is calling.

This is so true, unfortunately. There is increasing emphasis on "more and more features", and it is very difficult to get existing things to be properly and fully. Data quality, and the amount of data hacks, are a particularly good example.

 

[Sonic1234]

There are card transaction fees incurred with every purchase of an e-ticket

Anyone know what percentage of tickets are bought using cash? Most CCSTs will be card purchases.

The big cost in ticket retailing is ticket offices. At suburban metro stations the ticket office is never used (the perfect job if you like playing on your phone I guess), usually with a poster next to it saying "skip the queue, buy online"

The Intercity TOCs are even removing TVMs.

 

[Wallsendmag]

There are card transaction fees incurred with every purchase of an e-ticket. The railways have survived two recessions whilst still using the carded paper tickets.

Why do you say that? You can buy eTickets for cash

 

[Russel]

Got one of these new paper tickets today and I have to say, despite the negativity towards them on here (can't be having change, can we!), I like them, nice clean design, easy to read layout and the paper is actually quite heavy, it's hardly the thin, Tesco receipt paper it's being described as on here.

Looking forward to these becoming standard.

 

[LUYMun]

Can't wait to photocopy one and pass it off as a legitimate ticket. Not like removing the orange edges would prevent one from doing so.

 

[xotGD]

Got one of these new paper tickets today and I have to say, despite the negativity towards them on here (can't be having change, can we!), I like them, nice clean design, easy to read layout and the paper is actually quite heavy, it's hardly the thin, Tesco receipt paper it's being described as on here.

Looking forward to these becoming standard.

I note that you have had to fold the tickets in half in order to put them away.

If only someone could come up with a ticket that fits into the credit card sized slots in a wallet or phone case...

 

[Russel]

I note that you have had to fold the tickets in half in order to put them away.

If only someone could come up with a ticket that fits into the credit card sized slots in a wallet or phone case...

Folding a piece of paper is no hardship though, is it?

 

[xotGD]

Folding a piece of paper is no hardship though, is it?

It just demonstrates that practicality was not a consideration in the design of the tickets.

The interests of the passenger actually using the ticket don't appear to come into it.

 

[Russel]

It just demonstrates that practicality was not a consideration in the design of the tickets.

The interests of the passenger actually using the ticket don't appear to come into it.

Really? If it was an A4 sheet of paper, I'd agree, but having to fold a small piece of paper in half to slip it into the note section of my wallet really is a non issue.

I appreciate how much clearer and easier they are to read, they are nicely laid out and there is no distracting background or distorted font as you get on CCST's...

From an accessibility point of view, they are a big improvement.

 

[J-2739]

Really? If it was an A4 sheet of paper, I'd agree, but having to fold a small piece of paper in half to slip it into the note section of my wallet really is a non issue.

Still more of an issue than not having to fold it in the first place.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It just demonstrates that practicality was not a consideration in the design of the tickets.

The interests of the passenger actually using the ticket don't appear to come into it.

Still more of an issue than not having to fold it in the first place.

Jesus wept! I can't figure out if I envy the life of those who's greatest struggle in life is folding a piece of paper (which isn't even obligatory) or if I pity the life of those so miserable they'll moan about (not actually) having to fold a piece of paper.

 

[xotGD]

The Railway is implementing a retrograde step for passenger convenience. End of.

 

[317 forever]

The fact that the restrictions aren't in force doesn't mean the ticket isn't under those restrictions, that sounds perfectly normal in the overcomplicated fare system of the railway

It seems a reasonable idea to remind the public that the fare has restrictions, even if these do not apply on the day of travel.

It is also a little more effort to program the machine to print these restrictions selectively rather than automatically.

 

[Russel]

The Railway is implementing a retrograde step for passenger convenience. End of.

It really isn't.

When I folded my ticket in half earlier, it didn't even cross my mind that it was I was being inconvenienced.

If it's that much of an issue, use an e-ticket instead.

On that note, given how many people are now using e-tickets the number of people who will actually be put out by having to fold a piece of paper in half will be a miniscule amount, probably limited to posters in this thread!

 

[redreni]

Anyone know what percentage of tickets are bought using cash? Most CCSTs will be card purchases.

The big cost in ticket retailing is ticket offices. At suburban metro stations the ticket office is never used (the perfect job if you like playing on your phone I guess), usually with a poster next to it saying "skip the queue, buy online"

The Intercity TOCs are even removing TVMs.

But we had this discussion the last time they came for the ticket offices. At smaller stations, there's normally only one member off staff. So there's no saving to be made unless you make the stations unstaffed, or staff them with minimum wage zero hours people who don't know what they're doing because they've had very little training (and thus won't provide the services the ticket office did).

And people do use the ticket offices, as the government found out when the consultation happened.

 

[J-2739]

It really isn't.

When I folded my ticket in half earlier, it didn't even cross my mind that it was I was being inconvenienced.

Anyone reckon they push these pieces of garbage to sting people, and sway them towards e-tickets? (Which are a much better format)

 

[Russel]

Anyone reckon they push these pieces of garbage to sting people, and sway them towards e-tickets? (Which are a much better format)

I highly doubt it.

 

[317 forever]

Can't wait to photocopy one and pass it off as a legitimate ticket. Not like removing the orange edges would prevent one from doing so.

If the barcode is scanned, any effort to use even a "perfect" photocopy will not work out.

 

[redreni]

If the barcode is scanned, any effort to use even a "perfect" photocopy will not work out.

It would at London Underground gatelines. Although tickets with LU validity are supposed to be issued on CCSTs only, TfL's policy is to accept them as long as they're paper tickets rather than e-tickets.

Changing the format every 5 minutes and losing the orange colour that's been a consistent feature of BR/National Rail tickets for decades, isn't going to enhance people's chances of having their ticket accepted at a LU gateline, in my opinion. On a busy gateline, this looks no different than a ticket to a concert or a dog show. No doubt a bulletin will be issued in due course letting staff know what these new paper tickets look like, but there is a limit to the number of formats staff are going to remember from their training if they don't see them very often.

 

[Ediswan]

Got one of these new paper tickets today and I have to say, despite the negativity towards them on here (can't be having change, can we!), I like them, nice clean design, easy to read layout and the paper is actually quite heavy, it's hardly the thin, Tesco receipt paper it's being described as on here.

Once folded, would they fit in a credit card holder ?

 

[david1212]

The existing CCST specification is rather past its sell by date, unfortunately.

I think one of those very low cost smartcard solutions (including the ones which have the electronics inside a paper card) would have been good, as it would have enabled the total elimination of everything except ITSO readers. Single use tickets would have had a paper card with the chip implanted and human readable information on the outside.

Increasingly large numbers of Android smartphones support ITSO over NFC these days, and I expect Apple could do the same if they wished.

But we have gone for the Aztec code solution, and now that we have done so it is difficult to go back.
The obvious problem with Aztec code based tickets is the difficulty in protecting against duplication - especially for multi trip tickets.

I have always thought that full implementation of ITSO was the long term way forward but at least on this forum it is a minority view.
The majority think Aztec on a smartphone app is all that is needed with no ticket offices or ticket machine and that Transport for London should change to this. The backup is to print at home. This presumes possession of a printer and totally overlooks being away from home based at small hotel or holiday rental. Those who for whatever reason find a smartphone difficult to use particularity on the move so at station barriers or who do not have or want a smartphone are not considered.

I do think single use card ITSO tickets are a waste though. Rather make a nominal charge for a reusable plastic one.

Back to the latest plain paper tickets how much cost is saved over having something to instantly identify as a UK rail ticket e.g. orange edges and the double arrow symbol ?

 

[Russel]

Once folded, would they fit in a credit card holder ?

Possibly about 5mm too long, but no issue putting it in the note section of my wallet.

 

[Ediswan]

Possibly about 5mm too long, but no issue putting it in the note section of my wallet.

Good. That would fit my Oyster ticket holder. The slots are usefully bigger than a credit card.

 

[Sonic1234]

At smaller stations, there's normally only one member off staff. So there's no saving to be made unless you make the stations unstaffed, or staff them with minimum wage zero hours people who don't know what they're doing because they've had very little training (and thus won't provide the services the ticket office did).

This would be exactly what they will do. On a majority ungated network like SE, the stations will be unstaffed. I expect most people think they are anyway.

On gate-happy GTR, it will be staffed by an agency worker from OnTrak to push the button on the gate controller (or argue with you about break of journey etc.).

Metro stations could probably go Oyster and Contactless only and barely lose any business. A through ticket from these stations to a long-distance destination is likely to be a CCST because of it having cross-London validity, and you barely see any CCSTs on Intercity services suggesting very few through tickets are sold. Paper tickets within the London Zones is a niche case - I use them sometimes and would miss them if they were gone, but it's not something the majority do.

 

[Flying Snail]

Almost no smartphone owner is going to want to faff about loading tickets onto a smartcard, they will just present them as an e-ticket on the phone.

It's fantastic when self-appointed spokespersons state such facts on behalf of everyone.

I purchase tickets on app and load to smartcard and it is as close to zero effort as I can think, literally just holding a piece of plastic to a device for a second.

Honestly the level of nonsense spewed on here by people who seem to be overly invested in forcing everyone else to use the ticketing method they prefer and no other is ridiculous.

*post may contain sarcasm.

 

[island]

Once folded, would they fit in a credit card holder ?

Depends how many times you fold it

 

[xotGD]

Depends how many times you fold it

You could try making an origami frog out of your frog.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Does nobody else roll them?

 

[Andyh82]

First time I’ve come across one of these today was when I bought a GM Bus and Train day saver in Rochdale

Bus drivers always looked suspicious when you presented a ‘train ticket’ at them. They are now even more suspicious when you flash a random bit of plain white paper at them. Every bus I caught the driver examined it closely.

As they aren’t scanned on buses, how long before a scam involving photocopying these sorts of tickets becomes a thing?

I’m not massively sure the printed barcode was very good at working the barriers at Manchester Victoria either, although I find the style of barrier with the barcode reader at a low almost knee height dodgy at the best of times.

 

[Bungle965]

I’m not massively sure the printed barcode was very good at working the barriers at Manchester Victoria either, although I find the style of barrier with the barcode reader at a low almost knee height dodgy at the best of times.

I think this is fairly well known, LNER have moved theirs to near the Smartcard reader, for whatever reason Northern never paid for that.