New-style Paper Tickets

[yorkie]

Can't wait to photocopy one and pass it off as a legitimate ticket. Not like removing the orange edges would prevent one from doing so.

Given the presence of an Aztec barcode on modern tickets, this type of fraud is easy to prosecute:

Photoshopped ticket with valid barcode- Will it come up on the scan?

Hi all Long story but one of my friends bought a ticket from Bham New Street to London Euston but accidentally bought it with a railcard and then only realised later on and when all the tickets had been sold out, and then got me to photoshop out the bit where it says which railcard he has. I...

www.railforums.co.uk

Yes, in the old days, the security was by making it harder to obtain the right paper, but the reality is that some people did actually do that, and it could be impossible for the average inspector to tell the difference.

Modern tickets with barcodes make it far easier to detect such fraud; you may think it looks easy, but the security is in the barcode - which you can't fabricate - not the piece of paper being non-standard.

 

[renegademaster]

While e ticketing might have reduced forgeries, they've made donutting so much more easier

 

[Kite159]

While e ticketing might have reduced forgeries, they've made donutting so much more easier

And also they have created a nice evidence pile for when the evader gets caught. Especially if they are using an e-ticket for a journey within London where oyster/Contactless is cheaper (ie London Bridge to Blackfriars)

 

[Russel]

While e ticketing might have reduced forgeries, they've made donutting so much more easier

Donutting?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Donutting?

Buying local tickets for either end of a longer journey, just to get through the barriers, but with nothing valid held for inbetween.

 

[JonathanH]

Donutting?

The process of buying a ticket for the start and end of a journey but nothing in the middle.

 

[Haywain]

Donutting?

Think ring doughnuts rather than jam!

 

[MrJeeves]

Think ring doughnuts rather than jam!

Alternatively, the jam represents the sweet sweet savings that can be made with it!

 

[Flying Snail]

Alternatively, the jam represents the sweet sweet savings that can be made with it!

And the sticky mess that you will end up in when caught.

 

[paul1609]

And the sticky mess that you will end up in when caught.

Surely if the ticket check comes where you dont have a valid ticket. You just ask to buy one. Worse possible scenario is a penalty fare. You dont proffer a donut ticket.

 

[JonathanH]

Surely if the ticket check comes where you dont have a valid ticket. You just ask to buy one. Worse possible scenario is a penalty fare. You dont proffer a donut ticket.

Many of the instances of people being caught without a valid ticket arise at the exit barrier where the 'donut' ticket has to be proffered, or where they have to explain how they got past a barrier without a ticket. The use of scanable tickets is very much catching people out who think they can outwit the systems.

 

[paul1609]

Many of the instances of people being caught without a valid ticket arise at the exit barrier where the 'donut' ticket has to be proffered, or where they have to explain how they got past a barrier without a ticket. The use of scanable tickets is very much catching people out who think they can outwit the systems.

Surely thats the whole point of the donut exit ticket though. If it wont get you out why buy it in the first place?

 

[Haywain]

Surely thats the whole point of the donut exit ticket though. If it wont get you out why buy it in the first place?

Because it does let you out on some, possibly most, days. And then it doesn't and you get caught.

 

[island]

Surely thats the whole point of the donut exit ticket though. If it wont get you out why buy it in the first place?

It will get you out most days, but when they have RPIs ready to deal with the short ticketing, the gates are set to reject tickets from very nearby so that their users can be written up. (Or let on their way if they have a good explanation.)

 

[Bungle965]

the gates are set to reject tickets from very nearby so that their users can be written

I seem to recall this being fine for CCST, E-Tickets on the other hand...

 

[Wallsendmag]

I seem to recall this being fine for CCST, E-Tickets on the other hand...

Are much easier to check and can usually be traced to the purchaser and their online account.

 

[island]

Indeed. And I have also seen Southeastern tape over the e-ticket scanners at stations and funnel everyone with an e-ticket through to a manual scan.

 

[Bungle965]

Are much easier to check and can usually be traced to the purchaser and their online account.

Indeed. And I have also seen Southeastern tape over the e-ticket scanners at stations and funnel everyone with an e-ticket through to a manual scan.

Although my point is that currently it won’t be picked up by the Cubic gates so you‘re relying on a once in a blue moon revenue exercise to pick this up.
The more people using E-Tickets (as is the RDG dream!) the more backlog there is which could eventually turn into a safety concern!
S&B and Vix as I understand it have none of these issues, sadly the industry (there are of course exceptions!) has hamstrung itself by putting it’s eggs into one particularly poor basket for ATGs

 

[island]

Indeed. Sadly, the contactless zone, and hence the amount of places which must have cubic gates, continues to expand.

 

[Haywain]

sadly the industry (there are of course exceptions!) has hamstrung itself by putting it’s eggs into one particularly poor basket for ATGs

Much of the industry is hamstrung by having to go along with whichever supplier TfL happen to choose - to the extent that even standalone smartcard readers can only come from one supplier in the Oval area.

 

[Bungle965]

Much of the industry is hamstrung by having to go along with whichever supplier TfL happen to choose - to the extent that even standalone smartcard readers can only come from one supplier in the Oval area.

Rumours are from TfL that they’re increasingly unhappy with the performance of Cubic themselves but how do you replace a supplier that is so deeply ingrained into your system!?
CCST was always a bit of a bolt on at the time, sort of worked, sort of didn’t. E-Tickets were an even bigger one and without paying an extraordinarily large amount of money to Cubic I can’t see anything changing.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Or start again with another supplier not easy but do you just continue with the incumbent forever ?

 

[py_megapixel]

First time I’ve come across one of these today was when I bought a GM Bus and Train day saver in Rochdale

Bus drivers always looked suspicious when you presented a ‘train ticket’ at them. They are now even more suspicious when you flash a random bit of plain white paper at them. Every bus I caught the driver examined it closely.

As they aren’t scanned on buses, how long before a scam involving photocopying these sorts of tickets becomes a thing?

I know in the specific case of GM (although I think this is actually true elsewhere in the country too) the buses are actually all fitted with barcode scanners anyway. I wonder how much work would be involved to just get the buses to accept barcoded rail tickets so the driver doesn't even need to examine them.

 

[OscarH]

I know in the specific case of GM (although I think this is actually true elsewhere in the country too) the buses are actually all fitted with barcode scanners anyway. I wonder how much work would be involved to just get the buses to accept barcoded rail tickets so the driver doesn't even need to examine them.

It's being worked on in the context of PlusBus eTickets. At one point scanning a rail AZTEC would actually entirely crash the Ticketer machine, and those behind you got a free ride, I think that might be fixed now though they still will reject currently as far as I know.

 

[generalnerd]

And the sticky mess that you will end up in when caught.

That’s the best thing I’ve read all week I think!!

 

[Bungle965]

Or start again with another supplier not easy but do you just continue with the incumbent forever ?

For sure, but what will is there for TOCs to do this? Or should I say the DfT, as they’re assets which in a lot of cases have a lot of life left in them of which they cost a small fortune to install anyway.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Hmm... unlike the other TOCs who are issuing these new style tickets and who will provide them on CCST instead on request, it appears that at least on Southern - presumably the same applies to the rest of the TSGN empire - they have been instructed NOT to issue anything that can be issued on the new style tickets on CCST...

 

[stadler]

Hmm... unlike the other TOCs who are issuing these new style tickets and who will provide them on CCST instead on request, it appears that at least on Southern - presumably the same applies to the rest of the TSGN empire - they have been instructed NOT to issue anything that can be issued on the new style tickets on CCST...

I noticed that too. I was also told that at a Southern station the other day when i had asked. It is a shame the loo roll has started infesting the GTR network a few weeks ago. It is not clear though whether they even have the ability to issue on CCST on request? I have heard from some others that the Worldline system does not let you select the ticket type but others like Fujitsu and TTK allow you to choose? So i am not certain but it may be that they are unable to rather than just that they are instructed not to?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Hmm... unlike the other TOCs who are issuing these new style tickets and who will provide them on CCST instead on request, it appears that at least on Southern - presumably the same applies to the rest of the TSGN empire - they have been instructed NOT to issue anything that can be issued on the new style tickets on CCST...

I know LNER have been told this as well as I did the brief.

 

[Edvid]

Rumours are from TfL that they’re increasingly unhappy with the performance of Cubic themselves but how do you replace a supplier that is so deeply ingrained into your system!?

Or start again with another supplier not easy but do you just continue with the incumbent forever ?

Just a reminder the next Revenue Collection Contract award is currently scheduled for late August, so I guess whatever TfL decide then will (continue to) impact the industry's choice of supplier(s) for another decade or so.