Forth road bridge closed completely, effect on rail network?

[overthewater]

Agreed they have done a good job. It's interesting on a personal level because I passed through Haymarket earlier today and thought 'I must start a thread about if there's a point to Platform 0' - turns out there is. Also explains why there were so many 156s at Haymarket TMD, I counted five or six.

Platform 0 was built a couple of years ago for the summer works. Thankful someone has the hindsight to keep it just in case!

 

[me123]

Agreed they have done a good job. It's interesting on a personal level because I passed through Haymarket earlier today and thought 'I must start a thread about if there's a point to Platform 0' - turns out there is. Also explains why there were so many 156s at Haymarket TMD, I counted five or six.

They used it during the engineering works years back and have kept it since. It's rarely used in passenger service, but I think it's been worthwhile. As these events have shown.

When there's delays, I've also occasionally seen them turn trains back on Platform 0, and advising passengers at Waverley that their train will "start at Haymarket Platform 0". There's so many services between Haymarket and Waverley that it's not too inconvenient to turn trains around there.

 

[Starmill]

I seem to remember that Haymarket Platform 0 was necessary when they needed to close the north tunnel to electrify it?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I seem to remember that Haymarket Platform 0 was necessary when they needed to close the north tunnel to electrify it?

Sounds right, in connection with A2B and the Edinburgh to Bathgate electrification works.

 

[najaB]

I seem to remember that Haymarket Platform 0 was necessary when they needed to close the north tunnel to electrify it?

Yup, that's right. Services from the west terminated at Haymarket and those that didn't reversed and went round the Sub. I was going to ask if it sees any use these days, apparently it does and even more over then next few weeks.

 

[edwin_m]

Actually, in the "bad old days" of BR and Inter-City, there was indeed a number of standby trains. It was known as the "Directors Reserve", latterly some rakes of older Mk 2 stock commonly kept at Euston etc, which were able to be sent as required by the Director of Inter-City. They weren't used every day but they dealt over time with a wide range of traffic surges, disruptions, etc.

I guess the closest we get these days is the various LHCS rakes that can be hired in. Fully written-down capital-wise and probably on a usage-dependent maintenance regime so they cost almost nothing until they are actually used. But many of these are already in daily use, for example filling in on the Cumbrian Coast as part of the solution to the TPE unit shortage, and others are more suited to excursions than daily service. There's also the usual problem of finding crews with traction and route knowledge.

 

[leightonbd]

Are the class 68 sets part of the additional services?

 

[najaB]

Are the class 68 sets part of the additional services?

I imagine so, but the STP timetable wasn't on RTT when I looked to try and figure it out.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I trust the new bridge being built next door is being given some good old deliberate over-engineering?

No. It's been designed so that it can be continually overhauled and easily maintained though, which is far more sensible, making use of the Forth Road Bridge as a diversionary route for a handful of weekends each year.

According to Transport Scotland

The main cables can be replaced without closing the bridge, should they succumb to corrosion issues, and given the location and weather, that's a sensible decision.

The road surface can be laid with conventional tarmac laying equipment, so weekend closures will allow significant resurfacing works to take place, and the diversionary route on the old crossing will allow a less hurried pace of works, which always helps, no matter how good the staff are.

The bridge girders have a dehumidification plant installed, following the lessons learned from the main cables on the Forth Road Bridge, and the coatings are North Sea derived polymer type.

 

[455driver]

Where are the DMUs running under the wires for their whole journeys ?

Or their whole diagram!
Its all well and saying 'oh look that DMU runs under the wires for the whole journey lets put an EMU on it instead' but what trips does it do before and after the trip in question and can they be substituted as well?

 

[route:oxford]

It's just a real shame that none of the Class 230 units are ready for operations yet.

It would have been a stroke of luck for them if they had been in a position to offer 3-4 units to Scotrail to operate the Far North or Dingwall routes to release full-speed stock for the Fife runs.

 

[DarloRich]

It's just a real shame that none of the Class 230 units are ready for operations yet.

It would have been a stroke of luck for them if they had been in a position to offer 3-4 units to Scotrail to operate the Far North or Dingwall routes to release full-speed stock for the Fife runs.

but you couldn't just offer them up unless they had been cleared for the route and there were drivers and guards trained to use them.

 

[Scotrail84]

The additional trains will be top and tailed using 67s and 4 mkII coaches. Roughly 18 extra services per day. Mixture of loco and dmus. All the loco hauls will be in service from Wednesday. Coaches been in storage and are requiring deep cleans and safety checks.

The Drs Scotrail liveried sets will also be utilised throughout the day as well.

 

[overthewater]

Two points

I bet cumbernauld people are not happy losing there direct trains, and being replaced by buses. I bet Stagecoach will be rubbing their hands.

Also Scotrail are stupid to pull off the only direct train to GLASGOW from fife. Could there not operate a Bus replacement from SQ to Linlithgow?

 

[Scotrail84]

Two points

I bet cumbernauld people are not happy losing there direct trains, and being replaced by buses. I bet Stagecoach will be rubbing their hands.

Also Scotrail are stupid to pull off the only direct train to GLASGOW from fife. Could there not operate a Bus replacement from SQ to Linlithgow?

Half hourly service to Qst still runs reverses at springburn so they've not lost a direct service.

That train is not busy with people travelling direct to Glasgow and is often pulled when there's line problems. Anyone for Glasgow can go to Haymarket and change there.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Two points

I bet cumbernauld people are not happy losing there direct trains, and being replaced by buses. I bet Stagecoach will be rubbing their hands.

Also Scotrail are stupid to pull off the only direct train to GLASGOW from fife. Could there not operate a Bus replacement from SQ to Linlithgow?

Bustitution will be difficult as pretty much all available buses will be operating from Fife into Edinburgh via Kincardine Bridge as part of the relief effort, with the possibility of additional buses elsewhere on the M90/A90 corridor as far as Perth, Dundee and Aberdeen to try and keep cars off the road.

 

[Alba]

Details of the additional Fife services tomorrow now on realtimes, anyone know which of the current services will be strengthened?

 

[overthewater]

Details of the additional Fife services tomorrow now on realtimes, anyone know which of the current services will be strengthened?

There is already thread dealing with this, In other public transport section.

FULL details about the buses can be viewed here:
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...5&hootPostID=ae725825262c8e419e30cee5e3684e1c

 

[berneyarms]

There is already thread dealing with this, In other public transport section.

FULL details about the buses can be viewed here:
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...5&hootPostID=ae725825262c8e419e30cee5e3684e1c

I think he/she means which of the regular train services will be strengthened....

 

[me123]

I bet cumbernauld people are not happy losing there direct trains, and being replaced by buses. I bet Stagecoach will be rubbing their hands.

People from Cumbernauld (with a capital C) may not be best pleased about losing their (note the spelling) hourly direct train to GLQ High Level. However, as has been noted multiple times already, they have two direct trains per hour to GLQ Low Level that don't actually take that much longer than the services to the High Level.

The bus replacement service operates from Cumbernauld to Falkirk Grahamston only. It's a lightly used route, and it's often (quite sensibly) the first train to be cancelled and replaced by buses when things go wrong.

There's also four trains every hour from Cumbernauld's other station at Croy. I don't think Stagecoach will be pulling in many (if any) extra customers on the back of this. It's worth noting that the third train each hour is relatively new - until electrification the route only ever had 2tph max. And it's only temporary AFAIK - once the wires are up and running, I believe that the plan is to go back to 2tph to GLQ High Level. (Although I suppose that through services to the low level could easily be retained if there was enough support for direct services. That's a whole other discussion.)

Also Scotrail are stupid to pull off the only direct train to GLASGOW from fife. Could there not operate a Bus replacement from SQ to Linlithgow?

Scotrail are quite sensibly withdrawing the service, to allow the path to be used to increase frequency on the core route into Edinburgh. I can't imagine it's particularly busy, anyway. It's quicker to transfer at Linlithgow than to ride the train all the way to Glasgow (note only the first letter is capitalised) from Fife (again, note that the first letter is capitalised here).

If anyone is affected by this, they can quite easily transfer at Haymarket. Like they'd have to do anyway for the rest of the day. I suppose that they (not there) could operate the bus, but it will take a long time to divert over the Kincardine Bridge, so much so that transferring at Haymarket is probably quicker and easier. Besides, as has been noted, the buses are going to be rather busy elsewhere tomorrow...

 

[overthewater]

I think he/she means which of the regular train services will be strengthened....

Said information has been up all day.

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-scotrail/news/forth-road-bridge-closure-keeping-you-moving
Additional trains
These extra trains will show in online systems later today (Sunday). In the meantime, here's a summary:

Southbound
Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 0708, 0840, 0931, 1249, 1602, 1649, 1729, 1906
Cowdenbeath - Dunfermline Town - Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 0750, 1504
Dunfermline Town - Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 1000, 1046, 1200, 1402, 1839
Cowdenbeath - Dunfermline Town - Haymarket: 1335
Cowdenbeath - Inverkeithing - Edinburgh: 1707
Cowdenbeath - Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 1739
Cowdenbeath - Kirkcaldy - Burntisland - Aberdour - Dalgety Bay - Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 1739

Northbound
Haymarket - Inverkeithing: 0746, 0854, 1211, 1450, 1617, 1641, 1653
Haymarket - Inverkeithing - Dunfermline Town: 0918, 1012, 1047, 1121, 1320, 1809
Haymarket - Dunfermline Town - Cowdenbeath: 1249
Haymarket - Inverkeithing, Dunfermline Town - Cowdenbeath: 1418

 

[najaB]

Said information has been up all day.

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-scotrail/news/forth-road-bridge-closure-keeping-you-moving

That doesn't, however, answer Alba's question of which existing (not additional) services will be lengthened.

 

[overthewater]

That doesn't, however, answer Alba's question of which existing (not additional) services will be lengthened.

I would put money on nearly ALL the train will be lengthened.

 

[berneyarms]

Said information has been up all day.

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/about-scotrail/news/forth-road-bridge-closure-keeping-you-moving
Additional trains
These extra trains will show in online systems later today (Sunday). In the meantime, here's a summary:

Southbound
Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 0708, 0840, 0931, 1249, 1602, 1649, 1729, 1906
Cowdenbeath - Dunfermline Town - Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 0750, 1504
Dunfermline Town - Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 1000, 1046, 1200, 1402, 1839
Cowdenbeath - Dunfermline Town - Haymarket: 1335
Cowdenbeath - Inverkeithing - Edinburgh: 1707
Cowdenbeath - Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 1739
Cowdenbeath - Kirkcaldy - Burntisland - Aberdour - Dalgety Bay - Inverkeithing - Haymarket: 1739

Northbound
Haymarket - Inverkeithing: 0746, 0854, 1211, 1450, 1617, 1641, 1653
Haymarket - Inverkeithing - Dunfermline Town: 0918, 1012, 1047, 1121, 1320, 1809
Haymarket - Dunfermline Town - Cowdenbeath: 1249
Haymarket - Inverkeithing, Dunfermline Town - Cowdenbeath: 1418

I would put money on nearly ALL the train will be lengthened.

Talk about not answering the question asked.

If you don't know, don't bother.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I would put money on nearly ALL the train will be lengthened.

If it's DMUs then there's virtually no chance of trains being lengthend as there's a national shortage of DMUs as it is

 

[overthewater]

The last two post seem to go against each other.

I also say this I doubt Scotrail will know which one will made longer for the long term, i would be very surprised if further changes are not made during the week.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it's DMUs then there's virtually no chance of trains being lengthend as there's a national shortage of DMUs as it is

Go to the ScotRail website. They are changing other services to free some up for that to be possible.

 

[me123]

Said information has been up all day.

The information on Scotrail's website currently relates only to additional services.

Scotrail have not yet provided information as to whether existing services will be strengthened (by which we mean additional carriages on the existing trains). There will almost certainly be some trains with more carriages tomorrow. Scotrail haven't identified these. We know that they're "poaching" some DMUs from Glasgow to supplement these services. They've identified two routes that will see service reductions. They may pull in even more carriages by reducing the number of carriages on other services elsewhere, although they haven't said for certain.

So some trains may be longer tomorrow. But we don't know for certain, and we don't know which ones. I can assure you, though, that they will not lengthen every single train over the Forth tomorrow!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More information up about the disruption to existing services.

Services leaving Anniesland for Queen Street High Level at xx:21 are cancelled.
Services leaving Queen Street High Level for Anniesland at xx:56 are cancelled.

The 09:08 Glasgow Queen Street to Dundee is cancelled. The 15:13 service from Dundee to Queen Street is also cancelled. (I was under the impression that the two services mentioned suggested two return services, but it seems to be just one train in each direction that's cancelled).

No mentions of reductions in capacity elsewhere, however I suspect that there will be some. If you look at the Dundee cancellations, I suspect that the services to Glasgow in the morning peak and from Glasgow in the evening peak will be shorter as a result.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
EDIT: According to RTT, The Dundee services appear to be worked in the same diagram as the Glasgow - Fife services, so there won't necessarily be short forming as a result of this cancellation.

 

[Starmill]

If anyone is affected by this, they can quite easily transfer at Haymarket. Like they'd have to do anyway for the rest of the day. I suppose that they (not there) could operate the bus, but it will take a long time to divert over the Kincardine Bridge, so much so that transferring at Haymarket is probably quicker and easier. Besides, as has been noted, the buses are going to be rather busy elsewhere tomorrow...

I suppose there could operate a bus from Fife to Glasgow, if syntax inclined that way your were

Talk about not answering the question asked.

If you don't know, don't bother.

ALL THE TRAIN

 

[Carntyne]

Just about all will be strengthened.