Forth road bridge closed completely, effect on rail network?

[Scotrail84]

There's no 05:52 showing on real time trains or the Scotrail app
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12 virgin liveried coaches to be split into 3 sets of 4 top and tailed with 67s to be in service either end of this week or start of next week. Deep cleans and safety checks required beforehand. Unsure as to who is supplying the locos or where the sets will be stabled. My guess will be DB locos and drivers and coaches stabled at millerhill

 

[Carntyne]

There's no 05:52 showing on real time trains or the Scotrail app

I

It'll be in shortly. It's running.

 

[Scotrail84]

I



It'll be in shortly. It's running.

Who's crewing it and what is it? 2,3,4,5 or 6 car?

 

[dk1]

As I stated there is no rest day agreement in place between ScotRail and Aslef for working rest days Monday to Friday. ScotRail stated just last week they don't need it. Aslef don't want it and majority of drivers do not want it. ScotRail cannot just pick and choose when it suits them to have rest day working. Bridge or no bridge, weekday rest day working will not be back unless ScotRail pay us minimum time and a half. And they won't do that.

Here Here

 

[Chester025]

There's no 05:52 showing on real time trains or the Scotrail app
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
12 virgin liveried coaches to be split into 3 sets of 4 top and tailed with 67s to be in service either end of this week or start of next week. Deep cleans and safety checks required beforehand. Unsure as to who is supplying the locos or where the sets will be stabled. My guess will be DB locos and drivers and coaches stabled at millerhill

3 sets top and tailed Skips?

Mein lords...

 

[Scotrail84]

3 sets top and tailed Skips?



Mein lords...

That's the info I received. All subject to change of course.

 

[Chester025]

That's the info I received. All subject to change of course.

I shall watch with continued interest...

 

[LateThanNever]

As I stated there is no rest day agreement in place between ScotRail and Aslef for working rest days Monday to Friday. ScotRail stated just last week they don't need it. Aslef don't want it and majority of drivers do not want it. ScotRail cannot just pick and choose when it suits them to have rest day working. Bridge or no bridge, weekday rest day working will not be back unless ScotRail pay us minimum time and a half. And they won't do that.

Who was it that said there is no such thing as society? Ah yes, it was Maggie Thatcher. And yet the ASLEF is affiliated to Labour - is it New Labour I wonder?

 

[380101]

Who was it that said there is no such thing as society? Ah yes, it was Maggie Thatcher. And yet the ASLEF is affiliated to Labour - is it New Labour I wonder?

And what does that have to do with a Union standing up for its members?

Why should drivers have to work their days off to help out ScotRail? No TOC manager, director would work their day off to help a driver out. There has been a shortage of drivers in ScotRail for at least 3 years so it's nothing new. This current situation will only highlight the amateur way in which scotrail negotiate agreements with Aslef. They can pay a supplementary payment for Sunday working (solved the Sunday shortages overnight) but can't do it for weekday rest day working. That indicates they really don't need(want) rdw during the week or they would pay up. In reality, they desperately need weekday rdw to cover normal diagrams due to sickness, vacancies and training needs. Scotrail are running on empty due to the increased services demanded by transport Scotland and poor driver recruitment over the last 18months. This bridge dilemma will only serve to highlight all of the above.

 

[Robertj21a]

As I stated there is no rest day agreement in place between ScotRail and Aslef for working rest days Monday to Friday. ScotRail stated just last week they don't need it. Aslef don't want it and majority of drivers do not want it. ScotRail cannot just pick and choose when it suits them to have rest day working. Bridge or no bridge, weekday rest day working will not be back unless ScotRail pay us minimum time and a half. And they won't do that.

I would have thought that, in a national emergency, the Scottish government would be prepared to pay any overtime/special payment needed. Scotrail could pay it and reclaim as necessary.

 

[dk1]

And what does that have to do with a Union standing up for its members?

Why should drivers have to work their days off to help out ScotRail? No TOC manager, director would work their day off to help a driver out. There has been a shortage of drivers in ScotRail for at least 3 years so it's nothing new. This current situation will only highlight the amateur way in which scotrail negotiate agreements with Aslef. They can pay a supplementary payment for Sunday working (solved the Sunday shortages overnight) but can't do it for weekday rest day working. That indicates they really don't need(want) rdw during the week or they would pay up. In reality, they desperately need weekday rdw to cover normal diagrams due to sickness, vacancies and training needs. Scotrail are running on empty due to the increased services demanded by transport Scotland and poor driver recruitment over the last 18months. This bridge dilemma will only serve to highlight all of the above.

Well said mate. Why are we supposed to be sympathetic to the current situation? How sympathetic are most folk who are still set in their school day lifestyle of having the weekend off? My days off are my days off & I am proud to have a strong union that represents me. FRB not my problem & all that.

 

[Chester025]

That's the info I received. All subject to change of course.

67008 & 67021 quoted.

 

[380101]

I would have thought that, in a national emergency, the Scottish government would be prepared to pay any overtime/special payment needed. Scotrail could pay it and reclaim as necessary.

People are missing the point here. ScotRail would need to negotiate a rest day working agreement with the Company Council reps to do this. It doesn't matter who funds it. As said above, it would have to be big money to entice drivers to give up their days off these days due to the 40% tax we would be hit with. Not worth it as the shifts are bad enough working our booked turns.

And it's not a National Emergency. It's just a bit of inconvenience for commuters until the bridge fault is rectified. The major flooding in Cumbria is more of a National Emergency.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well said mate. Why are we supposed to be sympathetic to the current situation? How sympathetic are most folk who are still set in their school day lifestyle of having the weekend off? My days off are my days off & I am proud to have a strong union that represents me. FRB not my problem & all that.

Good to see some sensible support here. Too many people on here expect train crew to have no lives outside the railway. Sorry to say but we do - and majority of us see it as a way to pay the bills and nothing else.

 

[Observer]

Who's crewing it and what is it? 2,3,4,5 or 6 car?

The other DRS set perhaps?

 

[Class 170101]

Its noted that services between Cumbernauld and Falkirk Grahamston are suspended to provide units for this service - all very sensible.

However Scotrail are diverting E&G services via this route from 21:00(ish) MTWO nights so why not stop at these stations en-route rather than run the bus?

 

[Legend]

Drivers aren't really an issue, it's engineering staff at Haymarket TMD that will be needed. If availability and reliability of the stock can be improved, more carriages can be put into service, running in multiple.

And the guys at Motherwell TMD with the loco hauled sets!

 

[Starmill]

It does seem very silly that the lack of a rest day working agreement might hinder progress when there's a requirement for staff above that that could reasobly have been anticipated before they won the franchise. Abellio presumably won't be paying for it though so it's in their interests to get on with it because (assuming ScotRail have got revenue on hand to sell tickets at Inverkeithing - I imagine the machine / ticket office have been swamped) there is extra revenue in it for them. £8.80 a day or £36 a week isn't buttons multiplied by the potential number of additional passengers, but they need to make sure they're collecting it because it doesn't sound like they will be able to do onboard checks.

 

[Scotrail84]

The other DRS set perhaps?

Not the Cardenden starter as that picking a crew up about 05:50 at dalmeny.

The 06:37 circle arrives from mossend about 06:25 in the Waverley to start the service so it's unlikely this additional will be loco hauled. A note on the locos is that only Edinburgh guards can work them.

My guess would a set(s) and a crew from Perth depot probably starting at Kirkcaldy or markinch.

 

[me123]

Good luck with that one. We hear the same cries for trains on Boxing Day every year, usually sparked off by some popularity seeking MP. You will always get the members of traincrew who would be tempted by treble time, a day in lieu & a few other carrots, but I for one ain't going anywhere near a cab on the 25th or 26th. Getting signallers & dispatch staff onboard too is another ball game.

I don't know what's happening at the top. I would be surprised if Boxing Day (and perhaps even Christmas/NYD working) is not being discussed somewhere, given the unique situation this year. The politicians will undoubtedly be very keen to maintain the link over the festive period. I suspect it won't come to anything, particularly since unions will be worried about the precedent for future years. But I would be surprised if the discussions weren't already happening at a high level about the possibility of festive working.

It's very complex to actually get it, of course. I'm not in the industry, but even I know that you'll need to get at least guards, drivers, engineers and signallers on board to get Boxing day running happening in an area where there's no precedent (I could be missing some people out here - apologies if so!). And it would need to be entirely voluntary across the board. And that would be a difficult ask. It may happen, but I'd agree that it looks unlikely.

 

[jimm]

There is end in sight. It will end around about the New Year. They seem to be very sure of that. As I've said, it's the time of year when people want money, and people will probably be more willing to do overtime.

As for time with family, you've already got Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day. This is the time that people want to spend with their family. This is over and above existing rest days. Obviously staff won't be working every single today, even with rest day working. I don't know the staffing scenario intimately, but I think there'll be enough interest for 3-4 weeks.

Do you have a crystal ball? Unless you work for the Met Office doing long-range forecasts, you have no more idea what the prevailing weather will be over the next few weeks than me. And the safety of the people doing the repairs will be paramount, so if conditions are not safe, they won't be working on the bridge, which will inevitably prolong the closure.

I'm sure we all hope the repairs will indeed be completed, as Transport Scotland puts it "for the return to work in January" but there are no guarantees. Just as there are no guarantees on staff working rest days to help out, however big the carrot.

 

[overthewater]

This may have gone past everyone, but Stagecoach have a bus every 15mins from Fife to Edinburgh on Boxing day and this was before the bridge closure. So its not like there is no links that day. As long as the train stay off I would put money on the buses going to every 10mins.

 

[PHILIPE]

Announced by BBC that Road Hauliers to claim £600,000 per day compensation due to extended diversionary routes and delays.

 

[JamesT]

This may have gone past everyone, but Stagecoach have a bus every 15mins from Fife to Edinburgh on Boxing day and this was before the bridge closure. So its not like there is no links that day. As long as the train stay off I would put money on the buses going to every 10mins.

Yes, before the bridge closure, when those buses would have been planned to go across the bridge. It's going to be somewhat more difficult to run every 15 minutes if they have to go via Kincardine.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I should think that TS will be simply handing Stagecoach a blank cheque for Xmas, Boxing and New Years days and this will basically give SC the chance to pay what they feel is needed to anyone and everyone needed to run services. With a Multi National Workforce this should be achievable Id have thought.

 

[overthewater]

There already getting triple time. Also those buses are packed full on both days.

 

[me123]

Do you have a crystal ball? Unless you work for the Met Office doing long-range forecasts, you have no more idea what the prevailing weather will be over the next few weeks than me. And the safety of the people doing the repairs will be paramount, so if conditions are not safe, they won't be working on the bridge, which will inevitably prolong the closure.

There's been multiple assurances from the Scottish Government that the New Year estimate is achievable. There is an end in sight. I'm not saying that there may not be a delay - of course there may be a delay. But it's been reiterated as a pretty firm estimate, which I suspect they wouldn't do if it wasn't highly likely to happen.

My point is that transport workers aren't going to be signing their life away for months on end. The bridge is almost certain to be open in January.
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I should think that TS will be simply handing Stagecoach a blank cheque for Xmas, Boxing and New Years days and this will basically give SC the chance to pay what they feel is needed to anyone and everyone needed to run services. With a Multi National Workforce this should be achievable Id have thought.

I suspect that TS will be offering any transport company almost as much money as they want if they can provide additional services. I think Scotrail would be included in that - I suspect that they'll have the funding to offer as much overtime as is needed.

 

[Chester025]

Looking at RTT it looks like the 67 diagram will be as follows -

1Z60 0708 Inverkeithing - Haymarket 0726
1Z61 0746 Haymarket - Inverkeithing 0805
1Z62 0840 Inverkeithing - Haymarket 0901
1Z63 0918 Haymarket - Dunfermline Town 0944
1Z64 1000 Dunfermline Town - Haymarket 1025
1Z65 1047 Haymarket - Dunfermline Town 1114
1Z66 1129 Dunfermline Town - Haymarket 1159
1Z67 1211 Haymarket - Inverkeithing 1226
1Z68 1249 Inverkeithing - Haymarket 1308
1Z69 1320 Haymarket - Dunfermline Town 1347
1Z50 1402 Dunfermline Town - Haymarket 1428
1Z71 1450 Haymarket - Inverkeithing 1507
1Z72 1602 Inverkeithing - Haymarket 1620
1Z73 1641 Haymarket - Inverkeithing 1659
1Z74 1729 Inverkeithing - Haymarket 1750
1Z75 1809 Haymarket - Dunfermline Town 1834
1Z76 1854 Dunfermline Town - Haymarket 1927

This looks to be in addition to the 68 diagram.

Subject to change along with the usual caveats.

 

[MichaelWells]

67008 & 67021 quoted.

67008 and 021 passed Newcastle about 12 today with three ex Virgin and three Ex Anglia coaches with one BSO heading to Millerhill

 

[Observer]

Wasn't there supposed to be more than one 67 set coming?

 

[krus_aragon]

Announced by BBC that Road Hauliers to claim £600,000 per day compensation due to extended diversionary routes and delays.

That's an interesting statement. Who do these hauliers claim should recompense them?