Forth road bridge closed completely, effect on rail network?

[ld0595]

Just heard on the news that the Forth Road Bridge will be totally closed tomorrow. While it's only just been announced, is there any chance of extra carriages on the Fife Circle tomorrow? Despite traffic being allowed across the bridge today, I can imagine services will be even busier tomorrow. I heard the trains were packed earlier with people getting left at stations etc. I know Scotrail are pretty short on units, but surely the loco hauled set could do a few extra runs at short notice?

If not, there are going to be many unhappy customers!

 

[jimm]

Just heard on the news that the Forth Road Bridge will be totally closed tomorrow. While it's only just been announced, is there any chance of extra carriages on the Fife Circle tomorrow? Despite traffic being allowed across the bridge today, I can imagine services will be even busier tomorrow. I heard the trains were packed earlier with people getting left at stations etc. I know Scotrail are pretty short on units, but surely the loco hauled set could do a few extra runs at short notice?

If not, there are going to be many unhappy customers!

Do you mean unhappy customers or unhappy people who normally drive but turn up at the station and expect Scotrail to lay on a magic carpet of a service to convey them across the Forth even though Scotrail presumably got next to no notice from Transport Scotland that extra trains/stock might be required?

And they of course pick the day to close the road bridge when the two XC HSTs that are spare at Craigentinny much of the week are both in use... though at least one of them should be working the 06.32 from Dundee, providing some extra capacity in the morning peak.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think they 'picked' the day, as such. Seems after finding one steelwork defect under the road deck earlier in the week (which resulted in lane closures) they then found quite a few more. BBC say 8 separate faults.

Being suggested now that it could be a fairly long closure, weeks rather than days.

 

[Observer]

Are there any spare 68s at Motherwell available at the moment to top and tail the two loco hauled sets?

 

[marks87]

ScotRail have said on Twitter that they will try and increase capacity but there's no guarantee.

Even if the stock is available, getting it to Edinburgh in time for the am peak is another matter.

 

[mrmartin]

Forth road bridge is to be closed for at least 24 hours. Apparently the issue is very severe and there's rumors that it will be closed for many weeks.

I assume rail services are busy with normal loads.

Going to be very crammed tkmorrow.

 

[najaB]

I assume rail services are busy with normal loads.

I think that is a fair assumption, Fife circle services are already reported to be busy due to the part-closure earlier in the week. And it's the two busiest shopping weekends coming up as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If Scottish commuterland is anything like English commuterland, it's a blessing it happened on a Friday. But closure into next week could cause real issues - perhaps time for ScotRail to look to hire in some long LHCS trains from the charter operators to take up the capacity, sort-of like Northern did for Whitehaven?

 

[scotraildriver]

Just heard on the news that the Forth Road Bridge will be totally closed tomorrow. While it's only just been announced, is there any chance of extra carriages on the Fife Circle tomorrow? Despite traffic being allowed across the bridge today, I can imagine services will be even busier tomorrow. I heard the trains were packed earlier with people getting left at stations etc. I know Scotrail are pretty short on units, but surely the loco hauled set could do a few extra runs at short notice?

If not, there are going to be many unhappy customers!

How are you going to run the loco round at Edinburgh amongst other services? You would also need shunters, line blocks etc and 3 vacant through platfltms. It's not going to happen unless it's top and tailed, and that needs additional training.

 

[jopsuk]

Scotrail already have LCHS sets for use on the Fife Circle, one even liveried. So hiring in more wouldn't be alien, if they can timetable it

 

[DarloRich]

is the issue with the road bridge known? All i cant find is reference to "defective steel work"

 

[Carntyne]

Rumours that it'll be shut for weeks. Services over the Forth Bridge are extremely busy this morning as expected.

 

[PHILIPE]

It states on BBC Travel News that Rail services in Scotland, VTEC, Scotrail and XC disrupted due to closure of the Forth ROAD Bridge !!!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It states on BBC Travel News that Rail services in Scotland, VTEC, Scotrail and XC disrupted due to closure of the Forth ROAD Bridge !!!

That could well be the case if everyone is trying to get onto the rail services instead - though I do suspect the same as you; some reporter has their bridges mixed up and has put 2 + 2 together to make 709347683767.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Scotrail already have LCHS sets for use on the Fife Circle, one even liveried. So hiring in more wouldn't be alien, if they can timetable it

There's something that really looks "proper train" about the liveried one, particularly given that it is hauled by a very modern locomotive.

 

[najaB]

I don't understand why this thread has been posted on this Board.

I think it could sit in several different sections - it will have impact on traction/rolling stock as Scotrail have already said they are looking to strengthen services where possible, Allocations and Timetables if additional services are needed, Infrastructure and Stations if an extended closure results in additional services via the Dalmeny chord, Trip Planning & Reports, Other Transport...

 

[marks87]

Scotrail already have LCHS sets for use on the Fife Circle, one even liveried. So hiring in more wouldn't be alien, if they can timetable it

What would be the impact on dwell times/acceleration if scheduled 158/170 services were replaced with LHCS?

 

[oldman]

That could well be the case if everyone is trying to get onto the rail services instead - though I do suspect the same as you; some reporter has their bridges mixed up and has put 2 + 2 together to make 709347683767.

Scotrail themselves are saying 'Due to urgent repairs to a bridge between Edinburgh and Kirkcaldy' without saying it's the road bridge. They cancelled one Borders service and diverted the Fife-Glasgow train to add a little capacity.

 

[AndrewE]

One interesting consequence at least:
On
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O48912/2015/12/04/advanced

2Z00 0911 Dunfermline Town to Edinburgh
Timed for 168mph max
Pathed as Class 150/153/155/156 (Sprinter) DMU

 

[sng7]

How are you going to run the loco round at Edinburgh amongst other services? You would also need shunters, line blocks etc and 3 vacant through platfltms. It's not going to happen unless it's top and tailed, and that needs additional training.

The benefit of Edinburgh is that you could send the LHCS around the Suburban line to turn and with it going around the fife circle the other end no running round would be needed. In the morning you could have it going haymarket to waverley and then around the Sub and the reverse in the evening assuming paths are available but the stock and drivers are clear for this route already as they use it ECS everyday. Unfortunatly i don't think the LHCS are being utilised today outside the normal trips as i think i heard it through slateford at 9:30 as usual this morning

 

[PHILIPE]

Difficult at short notice, Coaches would have to be identified and dug out from somewhere, checked over. Then all the bureaucratic paper work and Contracts to be dealt. safety cases if required. Use LHCS so often seems to be a knee jerk reaction without thinking it through.

 

[swt_passenger]

One interesting consequence at least:
On
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O48912/2015/12/04/advanced

2Z00 0911 Dunfermline Town to Edinburgh
Timed for 168mph max
Pathed as Class 150/153/155/156 (Sprinter) DMU

A problem with VSTP path input that has surfaced over the last few months, it's to do with an incorrect conversion from metres per second to miles per hour. There seems to be a post about it every time someone sees it for the first time. It should be a 75 mph path.

 

[najaB]

Difficult at short notice, Coaches would have to be identified and dug out from somewhere, checked over. Then all the bureaucratic paper work and Contracts to be dealt. safety cases if required. Use LHCS so often seems to be a knee jerk reaction without thinking it through.

However, Scotrail already have two sets already in service doing (I think) two trips per day each. So the safety cases, etc. already exist making it a lot easier than if they were starting from scratch.

 

[jimm]

I don't think they 'picked' the day, as such. Seems after finding one steelwork defect under the road deck earlier in the week (which resulted in lane closures) they then found quite a few more. BBC say 8 separate faults.

Being suggested now that it could be a fairly long closure, weeks rather than days.

Well they could have decided to close it from tomorrow instead, giving people the chance to get organised, couldn't they?

And if the problems are so severe that they had no choice but to order an instant closure, it begs a lot of questions about the inspection regime.

It states on BBC Travel News that Rail services in Scotland, VTEC, Scotrail and XC disrupted due to closure of the Forth ROAD Bridge !!!

That could well be the case if everyone is trying to get onto the rail services instead - though I do suspect the same as you; some reporter has their bridges mixed up and has put 2 + 2 together to make 709347683767.

Well if even half the people who normally drive over the bridge are all trying to cram on to trains from Fife into Edinburgh, with the result beng extended dwell times at each station, then it probably is disrupting train services. And looking at Inverkeitihing there has been a fair degree of late running all morning, not much more than five minutes or six minutes in most cases, but hardly right-time performance.

Scotrail's Live Travel Updates heading is Edinburgh/Fife Circle - Severe Disruption and if you want the 11.21 from Glenrothes to Edinburgh, forget it through most of Fife, as the train is being cut back to start at Inverkeithing, presumably to shift people who have driven down the M90 that far and now expect Scotrail to convey them into Edinburgh. Scotrail is also warning of possible delays and alterations for the rest of the on services between Edinburgh Dundee, Aberdeen and inverness.

So perhaps the BBC is right after all...

 

[Blindtraveler]

If only the new platforms at EDB were open and indeeed built - P20 or 19 could have been a dedicated Fife Loco platform during this and loco runround would have been doable.

 

[IanD]

Shame that hovercraft service never got off the ground (or off the Firth).

 

[najaB]

Well they could have decided to close it from tomorrow instead, giving people the chance to get organised, couldn't they?

Don't forget there was a partial closure from earlier in the week.

And if the problems are so severe that they had no choice but to order an instant closure, it begs a lot of questions about the inspection regime.

Not really. It doesn't take long for a problem to go from 'Hmm...' to 'Better do something about it'. As was said in one of the reports, the issue was that there wasn't an immediate safety threat but the original plan of keeping it open while implementing a temporary solution would only make the issue harder and more expensive to fix in the long run. They decided it was better to take the short-term pain and implement a permanent fix.

 

[Cletus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

The Forth Road Bridge is to be closed until the New Year because of structural faults, Transport minister Derek Mackay has said.
The bridge has been closed since midnight with initial guidance saying it would be shut for at least 24 hours.
The minister has now said it would need at least three weeks to repair the bridge and safety was "paramount".
Early on Friday morning, 11 mile tailbacks were reported approaching the Kincardine Bridge.

The southbound carriageway had been shut since the discovery of steelwork defects during inspections on Tuesday.
Since then engineers have identified eight other parts of the bridge where similar problems could be encountered.
The decision to close the bridge completely was taken late on Thursday after the latest reports indicated the faults were more serious than had earlier been thought.

The rail operator has warned that trains crossing the Forth are exceptionally busy.
A ScotRail spokeswoman said: "We are working to see what we might be able to do to add more capacity to what is already an extremely busy route.
"However, even if we do manage to add carriages or services in the area, trains are likely to be incredibly busy at peak travel times.
"So if you don't need to travel, then it's probably best that you don't."
Now more than 50 years old, the planned traffic capacity of the bridge is regularly exceeded, shortening its projected lifespan.
Concern about corrosion of the main suspension cables, first confirmed more than a decade ago, prompted ministers to order a new crossing.

 

[jopsuk]

Well, that certainly changes the game for Scotrail. What's not viable for a couple of days can become viable when it's a whole month

 

[DarloRich]

time for NR/Scotrail, Scot Govt, XC and VTEC to sit down and come up with a plan to augment services asap