Forth road bridge closed completely, effect on rail network?

[bradders1983]

Certainly high enough that the BBC said that engineers inspecting the problems and working out how to carry out the repairs were ordered off the bridge in early afternoon.

A queuing system is now in place at Edinburgh Waverley for Fife-bound passengers



http://www.journeycheck.com/scotrail/

Are they enforcing the queue for the XC and EC services going north this evening as well?! And what about the Inverness/Aberdeen trains?

 

[Starmill]

What are the forecast high winds? Googling it just suggests 40mph

 

[marks87]

What are the forecast high winds? Googling it just suggests 40mph

Gusts of up to 55mph.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641280

Under normal circumstances, that would close the bridge to almost everything except cars - including pedestrians, which is why the repair teams can't get on with the job.

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/travel/wind-and-weather/

 

[oldman]

BBC has gusts into the 50s for Edinburgh - add a bit for being high up over the Forth ...

 

[dk1]

My first thought is that I hope Scotrail have all available revenue protection in operation especially at Inverkeithing. Waverley can be done but the through platforms can be a pain to enforce.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Gusts of up to 55mph.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641280

Under normal circumstances, that would close the bridge to almost everything except cars - including pedestrians, which is why the repair teams can't get on with the job.

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/travel/wind-and-weather/

Inspections still ongoing, design for the repair not yet finalised and won't be until inspections are complete, then there will be lots of modelling works needed due to the complexity of the structure to check it's both safe and won't create its own problems. Wind loading is one of the issues that needs to be taken into account - both on bridge+repair, and on the repair itself.

Really, really wouldn't want to be a structural engineer for this bridge right now, and probably wouldn't want the gig even without this week's trouble.

 

[route:oxford]

Has anyone phoned the Bo'ness and Kinneil Railway yet to hire in the SRPS Mk1s and the pair of 27s to top and tail?

 

[6Gman]

Difficult at short notice, Coaches would have to be identified and dug out from somewhere, checked over. Then all the bureaucratic paper work and Contracts to be dealt. safety cases if required. Use LHCS so often seems to be a knee jerk reaction without thinking it through.

Time to bring out the Strategic Reserve from Box Tunnel!

Steam over the Forth Bridge!

 

[EM2]

Scotrail already getting a kicking on Twitter for not having enough stock to strengthen every service.

 

[Class 170101]

I believe it was mentioned up this thread that Scotrail cancelled some services on the Borders Railway. I cannot see this going down well given the capacity issues there.

 

[jimm]

I believe it was mentioned up this thread that Scotrail cancelled some services on the Borders Railway. I cannot see this going down well given the capacity issues there.

But a bigger problem on the Borders line today was a signal failure, at Stow I think, which wiped out the service in the middle of the day. And just one of a host of other signals and weather-related issues Scotrail have been hit by today, never mind trying to make up for the road bridge closure. Don't envy the staff trying to keep some sort of service running right now.

 

[Howardh]

Can someone tidy this up - the Guardian (amongst others) states extra rail services across the river will be provided...which clearly makes sense.

But..but....where will these extra trains come from? No report says which services will be cut to make the units available - loads of staff will have to be shunted around, or if here are unused units lying around why the aren't they being used normally to reduce rush-hour crushes?

Somebody here will know pretty accurately how much extra stock will be provided and where it's from?

 

[childwallblues]

A Ferry on the Forth in December.

No thanks.

Not for the faint hearted!

 

[NotATrainspott]

Can someone tidy this up - the Guardian (amongst others) states extra rail services across the river will be provided...which clearly makes sense.

But..but....where will these extra trains come from? No report says which services will be cut to make the units available - loads of staff will have to be shunted around, or if here are unused units lying around why the aren't they being used normally to reduce rush-hour crushes?

Somebody here will know pretty accurately how much extra stock will be provided and where it's from?

In the short term, it may be possible to use some of the trains which would normally not be needed every day to run the service. However, using these means that the amount of time available to do major maintenance on the fleet goes down as there wouldn't be enough slack for a train to spend a day being fixed. If the problems were only for a few days then this might not be the end of the world but since it's going to be a month at least, it's just not going to be enough.

Normally when people on this forum suggest bringing into use some of the old LHCS that's lying around the network they're shot down on the basis of the costs and difficulties involved in doing so being much greater than the benefits it could bring. However, this case is something else entirely, as the Forth Road Bridge is so vital to the economy of the whole of Scotland. The cost to the economy of it being closed is going to dwarf the cost of making alternative arrangements.

 

[47802]

Certainly high enough that the BBC said that engineers inspecting the problems and working out how to carry out the repairs were ordered off the bridge in early afternoon.

A queuing system is now in place at Edinburgh Waverley for Fife-bound passengers



http://www.journeycheck.com/scotrail/

I'm sure the regular users of that route are going to well pleased not! and whatever extra capacity they manage to come up with it probably wont be enough so there are going be some extremely ****ed off regular and new customers over the next few weeks.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Like everything DMU related at Scotrail and indee many TOCs its going to be a situation of Robbing Peter to pay Paul. The next 2 or 3 days will be v interesting!

 

[sng7]

Well one easier solution if the fife circle LHCS are currently only used at peak times so these could be used all day as currently all they do is ECS back towards Glasgow after the morning peak and return in the evening. With regards to extra peak services this morning i believe a couple of units came from edinburgh to dunblane, edinburgh to glasgow via shotts and the kircaldy to glasgow service was diverted to edinburgh this morning. It would expect a full emergency timetable to be introduced for monday though as the current one *should* be ok with tweaks to cope for the weekend

 

[berneyarms]

Scotrail already getting a kicking on Twitter for not having enough stock to strengthen every service.

You have to take twitter with some caution.

People are frustrated, and understandably so by this disruption.

The vast majority are not going to know that there is a rolling stock shortage - when that's explained people tend to calm down a bit.

 

[dk1]

Scotrail already getting a kicking on Twitter for not having enough stock to strengthen every service.

Let's hope they kick back

 

[cf111]

Their braver folks than me that go on a ferry out on the Forth in December.

Never had the joys of the Aberdeen to Lerwick crossing in December, I take it?

 

[Oxfordblues]

I have to confess to a certain sense of schadenfreude* at the plight of road users from Fife to Edinburgh. The Forth Rail Bridge is a triumph of Victorian engineering with massive strength thanks to huge buttresses and cross-bracing, whereas the 1965 road bridge is by comparison a cheap-and-nasty embarrassment. If they'd built an equally-strong road bridge there'd be no problem, but it was the 1960s.

(*look it up!)

 

[najaB]

...whereas the 1965 road bridge is by comparison a cheap-and-nasty embarrassment. If they'd built an equally-strong road bridge there'd be no problem, but it was the 1960s.

To be fair to the engineers of days past, they did only design the bridge for c 20k vehicles per day and up until this week it was carrying c 70k per day. Also, a typical 1960's HGV weighs about half what a modern day one does. All things considered, I'd say the bridge has done the 1960's proud.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Also, a typical 1960's HGV weighs about half what a modern day one does. All things considered, I'd say the bridge has done the 1960's proud.

Also a good few companies now use double-stacker artics which must be at least a 1/2 heavier then a single stacker artic

 

[Darandio]

Also a good few companies now use double-stacker artics which must be at least a 1/2 heavier then a single stacker artic

There is a 44 tonne limit isn't there? They cannot be at least 1/2 heavier.

 

[AndrewE]

They can if lots of the smaller ones weren't loaded up to their maximum weight (carrying cornflakes, for example.)

 

[Llanigraham]

Also a good few companies now use double-stacker artics which must be at least a 1/2 heavier then a single stacker artic

Double stacked containers would be too high for road use!

 

[kermit]

Is the Motorail platform at Perth still viable?

Isn't there still a motorail rake kicking about in a siding somewhere?

And they haven't made the proposed alterations to Waverley yet, so there's still a ramp....

 

[najaB]

Is the Motorail platform at Perth still viable?

Isn't there still a motorail rake kicking about in a siding somewhere?

And they haven't made the proposed alterations to Waverley yet, so there's still a ramp....

I like the way your thinking isn't constrained to the interior of the box, but that will make even less of a dent in the queues than the 18-car ferries would/will.

 

[380101]

Never had the joys of the Aberdeen to Lerwick crossing in December, I take it?

Best ferry journey ever! The P&O boats always handled the winter crossings well. Northlink boats have been pretty poor from what I hear from friends still in Lerwick. Serco run them so it's to be expected!

Lived there for 10 years...Island life has its pluses!

 

[DarloRich]

I have to confess to a certain sense of schadenfreude* at the plight of road users from Fife to Edinburgh. The Forth Rail Bridge is a triumph of Victorian engineering with massive strength thanks to huge buttresses and cross-bracing, whereas the 1965 road bridge is by comparison a cheap-and-nasty embarrassment. If they'd built an equally-strong road bridge there'd be no problem, but it was the 1960s.

(*look it up!)

woah woah WOAH!

I am not having that. The bridge was built by the same company that built the Forth Bridge AND by the Cleveland Bridge and Engineering Company of Darlington and Dorman Long of Middlesbrough - purveyors of the finest bridges known to man!

I blame the Scottish. The bridge is often ( always?) carrying twice its designed daily loading of vehicles. The weight of goods lorries has also increased considerably since construction leading to a reduction in life expectancy for the structure.