Forth road bridge closed completely, effect on rail network?

[jimm]

Don't forget there was a partial closure from earlier in the week.

Well aware of that thanks, but it doesn't appear that they said at any stage earlier this week to Scotrail that it might be useful to take steps to have more trains in place, such as hiring in Riviera Mk2s and some DBS 67s or more DRS 68s, for example, or seeing if XC was open to hiring its spare HSTs on the days of the week they are sat at Craigentinny, which would be ideal for high-capacity queue-busters from Inverkeithing or Kirkcaldy.

Not really. It doesn't take long for a problem to go from 'Hmm...' to 'Better do something about it'. As was said in one of the reports, the issue was that there wasn't an immediate safety threat but the original plan of keeping it open while implementing a temporary solution would only make the issue harder and more expensive to fix in the long run. They decided it was better to take the short-term pain and implement a permanent fix.

Well given what we now know about the length of the closure from the post above, suggesting it is a very serious problem, it most certainly does beg questions about the inspection regime, given that what they appeared to think was initially an isolated issue appears to be rather more widespread, affecting several areas of the bridge structure.

 

[jopsuk]

I'd hope such meetings are currently in progress.

I wonder what the level of optimism towards that "new year" date is? I wonder whether the worst-case of not being able to reopen is being seriously considered? the new bridge is still a year away!

 

[najaB]

Well given what we now know about the length of the closure from the post above, suggesting it is a very serious problem, it most certainly does beg questions about the inspection regime, given that what they appeared to think was initially an isolated issue appears to be rather more widespread, affecting several areas of the bridge structure.

Not necessarily. It could still be the case that the problem - as detected - doesn't pose an immediate safety threat, but keeping the bridge open for several days/weeks with heavy pre-Christmas traffic running over it could cause it to become more serious/expensive to fix. It's also been said that it isn't an easy fix because of access issues which would likely only be worse with live traffic running.

I'm not saying that it isn't a big issue as obviously closing the bridge is having a massive economic impact, but it seems to me that the inspections have done exactly what they were intended to do - detect problems before anyone got killed or injured.

 

[ld0595]

Seems ridiculous that these problems weren't picked up earlier. I was lucky enough to have a trip on top and underneath the bridge earlier this year and saw the extent to which the bridge is just patched up, but these things don't suddenly happen overnight.

On another note, I can see Scotrail definitely putting on more services - especially with many people going into Edinburgh for the Christmas market. It's unfortunate that this has happened at a time where they are desperately short of units!

 

[sng7]

Bearing in mind scotrail managed to increase capacity for this morning despite that fact it was only announced late last night that the bridge would be closed They have plenty of time to get things sorted for monday morning

 

[hibtastic]

...and people said the new bridge was an unnecessary waste of money... ha!

There is a pic on the BBC live feed of the crack that they have found - looks pretty serious to me.

 

[Carntyne]

time for NR/Scotrail, Scot Govt, XC and VTEC to sit down and come up with a plan to augment services asap

Already begun AFAIK.

 

[mbreckers]

With the closure of the bridge for at least a month now, this is an opportunity for ScotRail to shine and show the railway as an alternate method to travel.

Unfortunately it will be ScotRail's luck that something will go wrong everyday on that route from now until the bridge re-opens.

 

[Al_McK]

It's all very well, and welcome, adding more seats but the station car parks in Fife are regularly full by 07.30 anyway. They need to find a ton of additional parking from somewhere if commuters that aren't within easy walking distance of a station are to be able to transfer to rail.

 

[scotsman]

There's now talk of a ferry. Unsure whether a passenger or vehicle vessel, but CalMac have a couple of 18 car ferries sitting around doing little

 

[najaB]

Seems ridiculous that these problems weren't picked up earlier. I was lucky enough to have a trip on top and underneath the bridge earlier this year and saw the extent to which the bridge is just patched up, but these things don't suddenly happen overnight.

Sometimes they do. History is full of examples of accidents/incidents were there was a design flaw that resulted in a bolt being overstressed (or similar) but everything was fine until there was just that little bit of extra strain put on it by a one-off event. Once a crack reaches a critical size propagation can be almost instantaneous, but below that size it may be difficult to detect without invasive procedures.

 

[St Rollox]

There's now talk of a ferry. Unsure whether a passenger or vehicle vessel, but CalMac have a couple of 18 car ferries sitting around doing little

A Ferry on the Forth in December.

No thanks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sometimes they do. History is full of examples of accidents/incidents were there was a design flaw that resulted in a bolt being overstressed (or similar) but everything was fine until there was just that little bit of extra strain put on it by a one-off event. Once a crack reaches a critical size propagation can be almost instantaneous, but below that size it may be difficult to detect without invasive procedures.

If anyone is interested in this sort of subject, this:

http://www.open.ac.uk/courses/modules/t357

is an excellent course.

 

[dcsprior]

I've seen suggestions online of having trains shuttle back and forth between Inverkeithing and Dalmeny, meeting buses/coaches/etc. Is this feasible, and what would the maximum throughput (in passengers per hour) be in a single direction for the rail part of the journey?

 

[scotsman]

A Ferry on the Forth in December.

No thanks.

It's not the roughest, those ships do much harder crossings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4jiXJbDwko

 

[me123]

A Ferry on the Forth in December.

No thanks.

People will use a ferry if it's the best option, which will be the case for quite a few weeks by the looks of things.

 

[bradders1983]

Well, the best option for a few will be "working from home"

 

[St Rollox]

People will use a ferry if it's the best option, which will be the case for quite a few weeks by the looks of things.

Their braver folks than me that go on a ferry out on the Forth in December.

 

[najaB]

Their braver folks than me that go on a ferry out on the Forth in December.

With the winds being primarily from the west of late, the Forth isn't as rough as some of the island ferries will be.

 

[RichardN]

Bet Scotrail are regretting sending the 170s to Southern now... They could always hire in the Hastings Diesel after this weekend when it is doing a railtour....

 

[Observer]

Bet Scotrail are regretting sending the 170s to Southern now... They could always hire in the Hastings Diesel after this weekend when it is doing a railtour....

Wasn't their choice about the 170s, they're lucky that they've been able to retain some for now.

I suspect that the two loco hauled sets will be in use all day from next week once arrangements have been made to allow that. They would require more 68s to be brought up to top and tail them, probably will be a weekend move lined up for that.

It would at least reduce the stress on the other lines where stock has had to have been taken today to strengthen the Fife routes during this closure.

 

[edwin_m]

There's now talk of a ferry. Unsure whether a passenger or vehicle vessel, but CalMac have a couple of 18 car ferries sitting around doing little

18-car ferries aren't going to make much of a dent and there's a risk that hundreds of cars will appear at the departure point as soon as it is announced (presume the Queensferry slips are no longer useable, and anywhere else would be a much longer crossing?). If they can't provide adequate capacity then they should be strictly for advance booking with timed tickets - not necessarily tied to a specific sailing but aiming to ensure people don't arrive quicker than they can be cleared.

On the trains I guess the first choice will be to try to turn the peak-time LHCS into an all-day operation. In principle trains can terminate at Dalmeny and Inverkeithing, but could either cope with either the extra train movements or the large number of people arriving by car? Buses would then be needed at Dalmeny to convey those who have left their car on the far side and can't otherwise reach their final destination, so perhaps Edinburgh-Inverkeithing shuttles are more suitable?

Isn't one of the XC HST sets normally spare in Edinburgh?

 

[oldman]

Shame that hovercraft service never got off the ground (or off the Firth).

Have you seen the wind speeds forecast for the firth for the next 24 hours?

 

[IanD]

Have you seen the wind speeds forecast for the firth for the next 24 hours?

Would have been interesting to watch if not travel.

 

[jopsuk]

Have you seen the wind speeds forecast for the firth for the next 24 hours?

High enough the bridge would probably have closed anyway...

 

[Legend]

Just heard on the radio there, that the bridge will be closed for a min of 3 weeks. That is quite a long time. Gives the powers at be a couple of days at least to bring extra Stock in also.
I know DRS Added an extra coach to one of the sets this afternoon. As one set went out with five coaches this morning. Not a massive help, but every little helps.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bet Scotrail are regretting sending the 170s to Southern now... They could always hire in the Hastings Diesel after this weekend when it is doing a railtour....

Why did Scotrail send 170s away and how many did they send?

 

[najaB]

Why did Scotrail send 170s away and how many did they send?

Because they had too many, and TOCs down south (specifically Southern) didn't have enough.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Where is PS Waverley at the moment?
The ideal solution!

 

[jimm]

High enough the bridge would probably have closed anyway...

Certainly high enough that the BBC said that engineers inspecting the problems and working out how to carry out the repairs were ordered off the bridge in early afternoon.

A queuing system is now in place at Edinburgh Waverley for Fife-bound passengers

Customers travelling from Edinburgh towards Fife this evening are advised a queuing system will be in place today from 15.30 this afternoon until approximately 19.00 at Edinburgh Waverley. This will be located at the South Mall adjacent to Platforms 7 - 11.

http://www.journeycheck.com/scotrail/

 

[92002]

Where is PS Waverley at the moment?
The ideal solution!

Tied up to the quay at it's Glasgow home for the winter.