Class 458/5

[Monty]

A poor photograph I know, but a sneak peak of the 458/5's Driving Motor, I think the jury is out on this one if it is an improvement on the unit's asthetics or not.. The origin of this picture is currently unknown.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/montyswt/9373111626/

 

[Class377/5]

A poor photograph I know, but a sneak peak of the 458/5's Driving Motor, I think the jury is out on this one if it is an improvement on the unit's asthetics or not.. The origin of this picture is currently unknown.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/montyswt/9373111626/

Oh that's bad!

 

[christopher]

Please let that be fake! :cry:

 

[Monty]

I don't think it's a mock up or a fake guys, after doing some asking around it appears to be an image from an internal publication. As soon as I see this myself I'll confirm it, I have to say it does look rather ungainly and the overhang of the cab from the front bogie is really noticeable without any cowling.

 

[swt_passenger]

Please let that be fake! :cry:

It's as per the drawing in the SWT pamphlet linked to in post #137. It also matches earlier written descriptions, that the 'slope' of the cab would remain, with a Desiro compatible set of 'vertical' gangway doors and bellows stuck in the middle.

It's basically what I was expecting to see, I can't think of another economic way of producing what was announced?

Edit to add:

There could well be some sort of shroud to be added in front of the bogie - I'm assuming that girder under the cab (with the holes in it) is part of the crumple zone arrangements, and that isn't the sort of thing normally visible...

 

[JB25]

SWTs have some weird looking trains. What are the White ones that look like I think armoured personnel carriers with the flat slope at the front?

 

[junglejames]

A poor photograph I know, but a sneak peak of the 458/5's Driving Motor, I think the jury is out on this one if it is an improvement on the unit's asthetics or not.. The origin of this picture is currently unknown.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/montyswt/9373111626/

Average!
Dont think you were going to improve anything though. The 458s look nice.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWTs have some weird looking trains. What are the White ones that look like I think armoured personnel carriers with the flat slope at the front?

Er... they'd be the 458s before conversion, so what this thread is all about?

 

[Manchester77]

SWTs have some weird looking trains. What are the White ones that look like I think armoured personnel carriers with the flat slope at the front?

I assume you mean the ones in the SWT mainline livery so 444s and 3rd rail lines and 158/159s on unelectrified routes

 

[JB25]

Er... they'd be the 458s before conversion, so what this thread is all about?

Oh! hock: So they are changing the livery?

 

[transmanche]

It also matches earlier written descriptions, that the 'slope' of the cab would remain, with a Desiro compatible set of 'vertical' gangway doors and bellows stuck in the middle.

It's basically what I was expecting to see, I can't think of another economic way of producing what was announced?

Something vaguely resembling a 380 front end is what I was expecting - and appears to be what they've delivered!

 

[D365]

Oh! hock: So they are changing the livery?

Yes, refer to the Flickr image which Monty posted not long ago, confirmed to be one of the ex-460 DMs.

I think we have a winner for the 'ugliest traction' thread - though somehow, I kinda like it

 

[Monty]

Oh! hock: So they are changing the livery?

Yes, they are being repainted into Suburban Blue as part of their rebuild.

Edit: Just a thought, with that new gangway installed you've got no chance in hell in seeing the destination screen on the front of the unit. I wonder if any provisions are being may to replace the current one or relocate it?

 

[JB25]

I quite like the White 458s. Like I say they look a bit like a tank train with armoured plating on the front. That new design is pretty poor. So blue is SWT suburban livery, red is the "metro" livery and white is the long haul?

 

[Monty]

I quite like the White 458s. Like I say they look a bit like a tank train with armoured plating on the front. That new design is pretty poor. So blue is SWT suburban livery, red is the "metro" livery and white is the long haul?

That's pretty much it:
White - Mainline
Blue - Suburban
Red - Metro

The 458s wear the 'mainline' livery because they were introduced when the slammers were still king and were running around in modified NSE livery.

 

[jopsuk]

Pretty much- except the white 458s have been running around on "suburban" routes and the blue converted fleet will be running on "metro" routes.

 

[TEW]

The new front ends may look rather ugly but they should be a lot more functional, the gangways should be usable by the public and coupling and uncoupling should be possible outside the station.

 

[CC 72100]

I don't think it's a mock up or a fake guys, after doing some asking around it appears to be an image from an internal publication. As soon as I see this myself I'll confirm it, I have to say it does look rather ungainly and the overhang of the cab from the front bogie is really noticeable without any cowling.

I'm looking forward to seeing a better quality image, as it looks as if in that picture the bodywork overhangs, obstructing the view from the front window onto what will be the platform side. Other than that, I actually quite like it.

 

[Goldfish62]

A poor photograph I know, but a sneak peak of the 458/5's Driving Motor, I think the jury is out on this one if it is an improvement on the unit's asthetics or not.. The origin of this picture is currently unknown.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/montyswt/9373111626/

About time too (4 months late)! It looks worse than the current 458/0.

Seriously, who cares as long as it produces 10-car trains on the Windsor lines? I doubt if current crushed-in passengers will care about its (admittedly hideous) front end.

 

[RobShipway]

It will be interesting to see the 458/5's lined up next to a Class 450 to compare the difference.

 

[Electrostar]

Am I right in thinking the direction of the couloured swoops on the 458s were different in style to the later 444s and 450s and continued along the roof of the unit? The 460s also had a coloured roof if memory serves with the Gatwick Express logo on the roof so it could be spotted by plane passengers...

 

[Fudgefrog]

Do we know if this is an ex-458/0 vehicle or a former 460?

And will all the 458/8 vehicles - regardless of pre-/8 life - look identical, or will it still be possible to tell which was which? If you actually compare the fronts of a 458 and 460, there are some notable differences (such as to the design of the top light, and placement of the destination board), where as Monty's scan looks very like a 458/0 in those respects. Will they spend extra time giving the 460s cosmetic surgery to look like their equally-weird looking sisters?

And given that the 460s didn't have any form of gangway at the front (which will presumably require considerable work to implement), will the cabs inside need to be modified or rebuilt accordingly?

Also, what is with those lights? It's like Southern's refurbishment of the 455s - if you're trying to bring it up to the standard of modern trains, why use such a bizarre headlight cluster?

 

[Manchester77]

It's an ex-460 no 458s have been taken to watbec yet

 

[pbaran]

Very interesting to see a photo of the new cab. It really needs some sort of valence to cover the lower sides for a more balanced shape. The paint job meanwhile doesn't harmonise brilliantly with the form of the cab. The yellow colour spills out slightly over the sides, which works perfectly well on a Desiro with its rounded cab, but looks odd on a Juniper with its ridged edge. I think it would look better if the red colour went all the way up to the edge.

For a conversion of this nature it's not actually that bad, though it is certainly not elegant. To be fair, the Junipers were fairly ugly trains from the start so it would have been quite challenging to overcome some of their quirks without a more substantial rebuild. You can tell the designers really wanted it to look like a Desiro, but it ends up looking part-Desiro, part-something else.

 

[Boothby97]

I presume the driving car is the SWT liveried vehicle currently sat outside Doncaster Wabtec (with Blue & Grey Mk3 12124, and the two Arlington EMU Translators). Visible from trains entering/leaving Doncaster station at the north

 

[455driver]

The front end shape matches with the pictures I have seen of the (fibreglass?) front before fitting, the drivers view is going to be seriously restricted to the right hand side!

As for "oh they will look different with the ribbon glazing so wont match the original 458/0s", who cares, its a train to move as many people as possible so a bit of difference isnt going to make any difference at all, it never did the 455/7s any harm did it!

 

[samuelmorris]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think if you imagined the 458/5 unit pictured without any gangway connection and a full width windscreen (376 style) it'd be one of the better looking units out there? I think having the headlights as fairly small on the outer edge looks quite smart if it weren't for the bulge in the middle

 

[southern442]

Something vaguely resembling a 380 front end is what I was expecting - and appears to be what they've delivered!

Me too, but it actually still looks 458-ish apart from the massive gangway in the middle!

This makes the original 458's look like swans

 

[Muzer]

I dunno. It seems to have some charm about it, despite being fugly

 

[D365]

I dunno. It seems to have some charm about it, despite being fugly

Exactly that!