Class 456's on the move?

[HarleyDavidson]

456 in Green: Zero.

456 in Red: 24

456 in Service: 20+ (Although another pair broke this morning!).:roll:

When are fleet going to learn to keep them on suburban services, they're wholly inappropriate for the Guildford - Ascot run with its steep gradients. :roll:

 

[Feathers44]

Could someone write a list of all the Class 456's and show which ones are in service, are being tested, ones which are still southern colours and one being converted. Like the guys do on the class 458 forum.

From post #831 I understood that all of them were red now.

 

[swt_passenger]

Could someone write a list of all the Class 456's and show which ones are in service, are being tested, ones which are still southern colours and one being converted. Like the guys do on the class 458 forum.

Little point really, the project is all but complete. The last green ones disappeared a while ago, and IIRC they don't undergo anything like the same sort of testing on return, because it isn't really a conversion (in the sense of the 458/5 conversion). It's re-livery and rearrangement of seating - more like the work the 455s had years ago.

(There are changes to PIS and alarms and stuff, but that is relatively trivial compared to the 458/5s).

 

[Juniper Driver]

Little point really, the project is all but complete. The last green ones disappeared a while ago, and IIRC they don't undergo anything like the same sort of testing on return, because it isn't really a conversion (in the sense of the 458/5 conversion). It's re-livery and rearrangement of seating - more like the work the 455s had years ago.

(There are changes to PIS and alarms and stuff, but that is relatively trivial compared to the 458/5s).

Plus minor in cab stuff and front end stuff.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Still don't work very well and are still riddled with faults on the traction systems, in that they get stuck at around 30-40 mph and when you try to accelerate away from a low speed TSR, they'll get to 40 OK, but then won't go any faster without a lot of snatching & banging around and you will in fact lose speed! :roll:

They do that to me, I'll just bring the train almost to a stand and then restart, after that they seem fine. Someone needs to look at what's happening on the traction system as when they run as pairs they don't seem to sync up, hence the snatching & banging around.

 

[swt_passenger]

Plus minor in cab stuff and front end stuff.

I thought I'd cover that with a random 'stuff'; but anyway I think it would be agreed that the conversion has been nothing like as fraught as the 458s. Has it taken roughly as long as originally intended, seems to have all been done with a much lower profile than the 458s?

If it wasn't for HarleyDavidson repeating the same old criticism every few weeks you wouldn't have known it was going on at all...

 

[TEW]

456 in Service: 20+ (Although another pair broke this morning!).:roll:

I'm guessing that was a fault with one of the cabs? A 455 was used to shunt the units round at Guildford later on in the morning and then they went back into service. Presumably that was a case of burying the defective cab.

 

[Feathers44]

A 455 was used to shunt the units round at Guildford later on in the morning

A pretty large shunting engine! Is that likely because of the fault or because 456s are reputedly not allowed to move about on their own in single unit formations in SWT land?

 

[Feathers44]

There was a pair of 450s running round to Epsom again on at least one day this week.

I hought that was a thing of the past now all of the 456s were out and about. Would this be as a result of a limited number of compatible 455s for them to play with, perhaps?

 

[Juniper Driver]

I thought I'd cover that with a random 'stuff'; but anyway I think it would be agreed that the conversion has been nothing like as fraught as the 458s. Has it taken roughly as long as originally intended, seems to have all been done with a much lower profile than the 458s?

If it wasn't for HarleyDavidson repeating the same old criticism every few weeks you wouldn't have known it was going on at all...

Ok boss,you got me.

TBH though the 458 conversion is easily more complicated,as if we didn't know that.

 

[TEW]

There was a pair of 450s running round to Epsom again on at least one day this week.

I hought that was a thing of the past now all of the 456s were out and about. Would this be as a result of a limited number of compatible 455s for them to play with, perhaps?

There was a pair of 450s out vice 455+456+456 last week too for 2 days. The 455 compatibility issue doesn't seem to be an issue any more. 456s are seen operating with a wide variety of 455s now, rather than just 455/7s fitted with the Call for Aid.

 

[Feathers44]

I saw my first unit out on a weekend last Saturday, running round with a 455 as a six-car. I only saw single 455s for the rest of the day. Is it known whether this is a one-off event or something we're going to see more of?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

There's something mentioned on a bulletin at work about a 2+2+2 formation for Hampton Court, but I only gave it a cursory glance as I'm not really interested in them any more.

 

[TEW]

Hampton Court services are planned to be formed of 6-carriages on Sundays from December, either 455+456 or 456+456+456.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

And when can we expect to despatch the 456's from the Ascot route (to where the belong which is namely London?)

With a bit of luck ASAP please!

 

[swt_passenger]

And when can we expect to despatch the 456's from the Ascot route (to where the belong which is namely London?)

Only when Waterloo P1-4 are extended to ten car would seem to be the realistic answer?

 

[JonathanH]

Hampton Court services are planned to be formed of 6-carriages on Sundays from December, either 455+456 or 456+456+456.

What is special about Hampton Court? Surely there are other routes with more passengers on Sundays - eg Kingston? Are any routes to be predominantly 8-455 on Sundays?

 

[infobleep]

And when can we expect to despatch the 456's from the Ascot route (to where the belong which is namely London?)

With a bit of luck ASAP please!

It's quite handy they currently use that route because on Saturdays I can sit in a declassified first class section of a 450 with a standard class ticket. I'm being totally selfish of course.

Saying that I don't see much difference between the Ascot line to the line between Guildford and Claygate. Both are rural, Aldershot not withstanding. I admit the terrain to drive on would be different.

 

[TEW]

What is special about Hampton Court? Surely there are other routes with more passengers on Sundays - eg Kingston? Are any routes to be predominantly 8-455 on Sundays?

Services via Kingston have been 8-455 on Sundays for a couple of years now. Waterloo-Guildford via Woking, Waterloo-Dorking and half of Waterloo-Chessington South services will all be strengthened to 8-455 on Sundays from December too. Services via Kingston will be increased to 8-455 on Saturdays too.

 

[hassaanhc]

What is special about Hampton Court? Surely there are other routes with more passengers on Sundays - eg Kingston? Are any routes to be predominantly 8-455 on Sundays?

The hourly afternoon Waterloo to Kingston (bay) via Richmond services are usually 8. They're to be diverted via Brentford from December, with reversals at Twickenham, but I'm not sure whether they remain with 455 8 cars. Aren't the hourly Shepperton and hourly circular services still 4? EDIT: Confirmed not to be the case.

However, everything seems to be 4 on Saturdays as well. I'm certain that until May everything via Kingston was 8 on a Saturday?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Services via Kingston have been 8-455 on Sundays for a couple of years now. Waterloo-Guildford via Woking, Waterloo-Dorking and half of Waterloo-Chessington South services will all be strengthened to 8-455 on Sundays from December too. Services via Kingston will be increased to 8-455 on Saturdays too.

It is excellent that SWT have recognised that Sundays are just as busy during the day as Saturdays, and improving the service levels to be closer to the Saturday one. It is something that TfL still need to learn for Sunday bus service frequencies.

 

[HeelBurton]

Quick look at RealTrainTimes shows that 2R and 2V will indeed run on Sunday's with a reversal at Kingston. I am aware that the extra trains are needed on the Hounslow loop, and it has been requested for a while.

The 2x2x2 456 will be interesting as this is yet another formation which will not have a member of staff present in as a 2 car will be unaccountable for.

 

[jopsuk]

On that last point, that's really only a new thing for SWT. Southern ran 455+456+456 formations, Southeastern run three unit Networkes and in the DOO badlands 3x321 , 3x360 and 3*365 are everyday formations

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Services via Kingston have been 8-455 on Sundays for a couple of years now. Waterloo-Guildford via Woking, Waterloo-Dorking and half of Waterloo-Chessington South services will all be strengthened to 8-455 on Sundays from December too. Services via Kingston will be increased to 8-455 on Saturdays too.

Is there any chance of Saturdays via Epsom being made up from 4 to 8 cars? It's quite common to be standing room only from Epsom onwards and definitely by Stoneleigh. By the time the things are past Raynes Park it's like the rush hour.

 

[Goldfish62]

On that last point, that's really only a new thing for SWT. Southern ran 455+456+456 formations, Southeastern run three unit Networkes and in the DOO badlands 3x321 , 3x360 and 3*365 are everyday formations

It's not even new to SWT. I remember travelling on VEP+HAP+HAP formations on the Reading line in the early 90s. Ok, it was NSE then, but still the South Western.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

But they've yet to come across the new and improved village idiot and townie yobbo, who knows their legal rights better than a cop sent to arrest and remove them.

 

[Juniper Driver]

It's not even new to SWT. I remember travelling on VEP+HAP+HAP formations on the Reading line in the early 90s. Ok, it was NSE then, but still the South Western.

I actually remember that more on the Alton LIne.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The 0758 ex Guildford was often formed 5x2-HAP, the problem was you used have to check each HAP for its rating.

Some were 75mph, most of them were 90mph, so you had to check whether Wimbledon or Clapham had shoved a D rated one in, instead of the required E.

 

[Siemens Staines]

It happened quite regularly on the Reading line although it may not always have been booked because I see from my old notes that the same train could be VEP+VEP or VEP+Cig one week and VEP+HAP+HAP the next. I also see at least one instance of HAP+HAP+HAP on a Reading - Waterloo in October 1990 so 456+456+456 would be the modern day equivalent

 

[Juniper Driver]

It happened quite regularly on the Reading line although it may not always have been booked because I see from my old notes that the same train could be VEP+VEP or VEP+Cig one week and VEP+HAP+HAP the next. I also see at least one instance of HAP+HAP+HAP on a Reading - Waterloo in October 1990 so 456+456+456 would be the modern day equivalent

The first train I ever drove on route learning coming back from Reading was a 2HAP.As far as I remember anyway.That was the only time I ever remember it happening.I do remember VEP+HAP+HAP so no doubt I drove them down there also.I remember I was doing a lot of Reading/Alton combos at the time.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

2-HAP units were lovely little things to drive, flew like the wind, yet you had to remember that you had limited brake force, so anything over 70 was best avoided.

I remember getting gapped on Sunningdale level crossing and having to jemmy the thing back onto the juice.