Class 456's on the move?

[TEW]

From RTT it looks like 2 pairs of 456s will work the following on Monday:

Set 1
2N10 0558 Aldershot-Ascot
2N07 0653 Ascot-Guildford
2N20 0800 Guildford-Ascot
then repeat every 2.5 hours

Set 2
2N13 0754 Richmond-Guildford
2N26 0930 Guildford-Ascot
2N23 1053 Ascot-Guildford
then repeat every 2.5 hours

These come with disclaimer that I have only worked them out from Realtime Trains.
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456005+465009 on the diagram I posted as Set 1 above and 456001+456011 on the diagram posted as Set 2.

 

[455driver]

Set 1 was formerly a 458 and set 2 was a 450.

 

[TEW]

456 takeover at Aldershot this afternoon.

 

[samogers]

456 takeover at Aldershot this afternoon.

Great capture do you know when the SWT livery is being applied?

 

[TEW]

It will be applied when they are refurbished at Wolverton. The first 12 units moved straight to Wolverton when they came off lease with Southern.

 

[WVL14]

Great capture do you know when the SWT livery is being applied?

The first red one is due to arrive at Wimbledon, Week ending 18th April

 

[samogers]

The first red one is due to arrive at Wimbledon, Week ending 18th April

Best get my camera out then!

 

[387star]

Best get my camera out then!

Yeah can't wait to see that

 

[nlogax]

Just seen 008 and 022 at Waterloo. First time I've ever seen 456s there. There were some very confused expressions on the faces of regular commuters..probably worried in case they'd turned up at Victoria by mistake.

 

[TEW]

A pair of 456s have worked in to Waterloo every morning this week. It's an ECS to form the 0754 Richmond-Guildford.

 

[ExRes]

It's been a long long time since I last set foot on a 456, apologies if it's been covered before but do they still have toilets on them ?

I seem to remember that they were being/had been removed, if so are they being reinstated or are SWT passengers aware of the need for uprated bladder control ?

 

[swt_passenger]

It's been a long long time since I last set foot on a 456, apologies if it's been covered before but do they still have toilets on them ?

No they don't

I seem to remember that they were being/had been removed, if so are they being reinstated or are SWT passengers aware of the need for uprated bladder control ?

No they aren't. They are being refurbished to match SWT 455s which don't have toilets either. Ultimately they will work in multiple with 455s to provide 10 car capacity.

 

[ExRes]

Cripes, what do I know ?, my opinion of SWT commuters has risen above the Shard itself

Do season ticket holders get a supply of recycled water bottles ?

 

[cjohnson]

A pair of 456s have worked in to Waterloo every morning this week. It's an ECS to form the 0754 Richmond-Guildford.

Off-topic, but why does this train only enter passenger service at Richmond?

Cripes, what do I know ?, my opinion of SWT commuters has risen above the Shard itself

Do season ticket holders get a supply of recycled water bottles ?

Longest journey time on a 455 is probably Waterloo-Guildford via Epsom which is 1hr 10 or so, and I doubt anyone does that all the way. No need for toilets when the average journey length on that stock is under half an hour IMO.

 

[jopsuk]

456s (and 455s) have the same toilet facilities as 315s, 313s, 376s, 378s, 507s, 508s which are all used on similar services.

 

[ExRes]

I was obviously brought up with a silver toilet flush in my trousers .......

I used to do Clapham Jct to Willesden Jct on 313's but otherwise I've always been 'blessed' by toilet facilities although, obviously, a poor sense of smell would've been an even bigger blessing

Maybe Stonebridge Park to Waterloo on the Bakerloo is almost as brave as the good SWT commuters ?

 

[jopsuk]

Amersham to Aldgate on the Met?

 

[TEW]

Off-topic, but why does this train only enter passenger service at Richmond?

I'm not sure but from May it starts at Clapham Junction.

 

[swt_passenger]

Off-topic, but why does this train only enter passenger service at Richmond?

I think it is basically a warmed up ECS move to Ascot, to then fit into the normal Ascot - Guildford shuttle pattern. As you are probably aware, in the morning peak a few trains off that route run through to Waterloo, so as they aren't available to wait and form the next down service from Ascot another unit has to arrive from somewhere. At some stage they might have needed extra capacity for down direction passenger flows from Richmond ( a school or college perhaps?) and will have seen that this ECS would be passing through between Waterloo and Ascot at about the right time.

As also pointed out in the previous post it is going to start at Clapham Jn, no doubt similar reasoning can be used to bring it into use from there. I guess the next question would be why not run in passenger service from Waterloo...

Just remembered they did something similar a couple of years back with an ECS move towards Waterloo in the afternoon, and the track access application specifically quoted it as being to deal with a heavy flow of students from somewhere or other. I guess the marginal costs of bringing an ECS into passenger service are low, as it just needs a guard (who might be travelling on the ECS anyway).

 

[456]

I don't suppose southern are going get more 377's to replace the rest of the 455's and the 455's go to swt?

 

[jopsuk]

the 377/6s somewhat replace the 456s (not directly, of course). At the moment, I don't think there's plans to send the 455s across. With the expansion of Thameslink services, class 700s will be adding many more carriages to the current Southern network.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Not sure that SWT would want the SN 455s.

 

[TEW]

Transferring Southern 455s to SWT would probably allow more 10-car formations, once Platforms 1-4 at Waterloo are rebuilt of course. 5 455s for Guildford-Ascot services would free up 10 456s to form 10 extra 10-car sets into Waterloo. I imagine there will be some 455+456+456 formations on SWT too because the 456s are being used to run extra 8-car services. 455s to replace the 456s in those would again free up the 456s for more 10-car trains.

 

[Helvellyn]

You could reduce the 455/7 units to three cars by taking out the ex-508 TSOs. Given there are 43 455/7s and 20 455/9s you could then run 455/7+455/7+455/9.

Run the 24 456s with 48 of the 455/8s as 456+455/8+455/8.

5 455/8s to operate the Acot-Guildford services, would leave 21 455/8s and 3 455/7s

 

[456]

the reason I say this is because its more logical to have all your trains the same class or same type and eventually people will be demanding that the trains are 12 cars long. it saves money because southern wont need order spare parts for 455's. swt could use the spares on possible the lymington branch, Southampton to Salisbury via romsey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
i wont reduce the 455/7 to 3 cars. why reduce capacity on the trains when passengers want more capacity on trains

 

[cjmillsnun]

Would that not require more platform extensions?

It would also have differences in fleets as the Porterbrook (current SWT) 455s are going to have AC Traction equipment and the Eversholt (current SN) will have equipment from the 4SUBS. Meaning there would be three different sets of spares required, as there will also be spares for the 456s to consider.

There are no economies of scale for SWT and that's why I don't think SWT would want them.

 

[MCR247]

i wont reduce the 455/7 to 3 cars. why reduce capacity on the trains when passengers want more capacity on trains

A 10 car train has a greater capacity than an 8 car train?

 

[swt_passenger]

...SWT could use the spares on .... Southampton to Salisbury via Romsey.

Not without electrification first, and if that route gets powered up it will probably be OHLE anyway...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would that not require more platform extensions?

It would also have differences in fleets as the Porterbrook (current SWT) 455s are going to have AC Traction equipment and the Eversholt (current SN) will have equipment from the 4SUBS. Meaning there would be three different sets of spares required, as there will also be spares for the 456s to consider.

There are no economies of scale for SWT and that's why I don't think SWT would want them.

Why didn't SWTs go for a new build of 450s? Even if they were not allowed to and had to go for a newer design of Desiro that meets the new crash regs, wouldn't the modular nature of the Desiros mean that a lot of spares would be common to all their Desiros?

 

[swt_passenger]

Why didn't SWTs go for a new build of 450s? Even if they were not allowed to and had to go for a newer design of Desiro that meets the new crash regs, wouldn't the modular nature of the Desiros mean that a lot of spares would be common to all their Desiros?

SWT did initially ask for Desiro compatible units or extra vehicles. The 458/5 conversion project and the 456 transfer was an alternative and presumably cheaper proposal by the Rosco.