Vandalism/ASB getting worse on the railways?

[AndrewP]

Whatever the merits of the graffiti (be it artistic or in the message) if it is vandalism if it is done without consent. Simple. I like some of the work of Blek Le Rat and Banksy.

The UK is not as bad as most of Europe and seems consistent in levels with peaks in holidays.

Interestingly I was in New York recently - the home of transit graffiti - and was surprised how little there was. None on the trains or stations and not too much on infrastructure. Of course the pioneers of this will be in their 60s and 70s now and trends and practices change

 

[Tallguy]

I certainly see a lot more ASB on the rail system these days. I put it down to lack of staff, lack of BTP who are invisible on the network with the exception of Waverley and the unwillingness of the general public to put themselves at risk if they intervene.

 

[HST274]

I think that the problem we are talking about here is late-1970s New York pop-art - which came across the Atlantic in the mid-1980s - as opposed to simple graffiti at one extreme and traditional, commissioned artwork at the other. And it has never gone away. I guess that we'll just have to lump it together with 1.rap 'music', 2.baseball caps worn back-to-front, 3.torn jeans, 4.men with earrings, 5.silly haircuts, 6.black American speech patterns, 7.skateboards, 8.BMX bikes and, catching up fast, the 9.hoodie. The simple fact is that 21st century teenagers are too stupid to think of original means of rebelling against society.

Or maybe society is too stupid to understand that they are stuck in the past and change is inevitable. I don't like rap MUSIC (because it is music) but I appreciate the extrordinary skill involved and the fact it can convey a message. Baeball caps worn back-to-front is just a style. Who cares. Torn jeans are another style- WHO CARES. Men with earrings is allowing them to wear what they want. It's another style- WHO CARES?. Silly haircuts- guess what I'm about to say. Black american speech patterns- I would appreciate an expansion of this because any assumptions I have made would cast unfair aspersions on your character. The correct term is also African-American Vernacular English. Skateboards- what is the problem here? I hardly ever see people out on the streets with them, in a skate park they are out of your sight and it's just an activity which allows people gather up with friends while looking 'cool' wo the people they care about- not you. Bmx bikes, same sort of thing. The tricks people do on the latter two are extraordinary. Hoodies are warm and have hoods. What is wrong with them? Now before you assume anything- I do not like/ would not wear/listen 1,2,3,4,5 and don't own 7 or 8. Hoodies is the only one I wear or own. I only listen to rap in Hamilton. But I take issue with people writing it all off because they don't like it AND more importantly another person blanketing all the younger generation as stupid and at fault for countless things. If I were to play that game, I could bring up racism, sexism, global warming, classism... the list of things people unfairly or not blame on ALL past generations goes on. There are bad people in every generation, but we can’t dismiss a whole group because of that — We shouldn’t. And like I've said the things you have listed aren't categorically bad. It is an opinion.
I have not mentioned vandalism because it is the only illegal thing here. That is indicative of the fact that the things mentioned are irrelevant to the topic and just a chance for you to insult teenagers.

 

[satisnek]

Or maybe society is too stupid to understand that they are stuck in the past and change is inevitable. I don't like rap MUSIC (because it is music) but I appreciate the extrordinary skill involved and the fact it can convey a message. Baeball caps worn back-to-front is just a style. Who cares. Torn jeans are another style- WHO CARES. Men with earrings is allowing them to wear what they want. It's another style- WHO CARES?. Silly haircuts- guess what I'm about to say. Black american speech patterns- I would appreciate an expansion of this because any assumptions I have made would cast unfair aspersions on your character. The correct term is also African-American Vernacular English. Skateboards- what is the problem here? I hardly ever see people out on the streets with them, in a skate park they are out of your sight and it's just an activity which allows people gather up with friends while looking 'cool' wo the people they care about- not you. Bmx bikes, same sort of thing. The tricks people do on the latter two are extraordinary. Hoodies are warm and have hoods. What is wrong with them? Now before you assume anything- I do not like/ would not wear/listen 1,2,3,4,5 and don't own 7 or 8. Hoodies is the only one I wear or own. I only listen to rap in Hamilton. But I take issue with people writing it all off because they don't like it AND more importantly another person blanketing all the younger generation as stupid and at fault for countless things. If I were to play that game, I could bring up racism, sexism, global warming, classism... the list of things people unfairly or not blame on ALL past generations goes on. There are bad people in every generation, but we can’t dismiss a whole group because of that — We shouldn’t. And like I've said the things you have listed aren't categorically bad. It is an opinion.
I have not mentioned vandalism because it is the only illegal thing here. That is indicative of the fact that the things mentioned are irrelevant to the topic and just a chance for you to insult teenagers.

Wow, I've had a bite... You seem to have missed my point that all the things I mentioned, with the exception of the hoodie which is why I said "catching up fast", were commonplace when I was a teenager. And that was in the 1980s. You're not alone - lots and lots of people have said "WHO CARES" which is why we still have these things today, including the original subject of graffiti. Oh, and I am referring specifically to 'rebellious' teenagers

 

[sk688]

thameslink 700's toilets seem particularly affected by graffiti attacks recently? have been using TL multiple times a week since the start of this year and i cant remember the last time i had one without some kind of graffiti in there

 

[GatwickDepress]

thameslink 700's toilets seem particularly affected by graffiti attacks recently? have been using TL multiple times a week since the start of this year and i cant remember the last time i had one without some kind of graffiti in there

Lack of cameras and plain walls make it an ideal canvas for ne'er-do-wells. GTR should take a leaf from other TOCs' books and have vinyls in the toilets of places it serves, like sunny Brighton and picturesque Luton.

 

[Towers]

Lack of cameras and plain walls make it an ideal canvas for ne'er-do-wells. GTR should take a leaf from other TOCs' books and have vinyls in the toilets of places it serves, like sunny Brighton and picturesque Luton.

Anyone obscuring that image with graffiti would surely be performing a public service

 

[Horizon22]

Saw one of the station signs (on the platform) for Clapham Junction tagged the other day. I've very rarely (and never at this location) seen platform station signage tagged, so that's certainly an escalation.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Is there much window etching these days on the trains? Quite a rare sight for me but wondered if other people see this form of vandalism more frequently.

 

[LondonExile]

The trouble is, you really can't differentiate between 'good' grafitti and the rest of it, as it's entirely subjective. It remains vandalism and criminal damage, that doesn't change based on the finished result or the identity of the vandal.

As for Banksy, ugghh....

Banksy is likely to be working legally *now*, precisely because of their fame.

Criminal Damage has an exemption if you truly believe that the owner of the property would have consented had you asked (and there's no obligation to ask)

Banksy can easily claim to believe that the owners of the walls they paint will be pleased at receiving a valuable artwork - not least because it's true in many (or even most?) cases.

The law is the same for all, but the circumstances Banksy finds themselves in means that they have a defence most other graffiti "artists" don't.

 

[satisnek]

Is there much window etching these days on the trains? Quite a rare sight for me but wondered if other people see this form of vandalism more frequently.

No, good quality CCTV and thick plastic film applied to the inside of windows have thankfully killed this off. It was rife around the turn of the century, I remember it particularly on the Thames Trains 165s and 166s, the Southern slammers (which were being run into the ground by that time anyway) and West Midlands Travel buses, where the rear upper deck windows were almost translucent!

I can remember reading that this was a problem back in Victorian times where affluent young men wearing diamond rings would carve their initials in the glass. It probably continued ever since at a low level, but what caused the mass outbreak one hundred years later, I've no idea.

 

[stuu]

I can remember reading that this was a problem back in Victorian times where affluent young men wearing diamond rings would carve their initials in the glass. It probably continued ever since at a low level, but what caused the mass outbreak one hundred years later, I've no idea.

Presumably because it was seen as more permanent than normal graffiti, which can be cleaned much easier and cheaper?

 

[freddie1729]

Is there much window etching these days on the trains? Quite a rare sight for me but wondered if other people see this form of vandalism more frequently.

I've seen this several times on Thameslink trains

 

[Peter0124]

Is there much window etching these days on the trains? Quite a rare sight for me but wondered if other people see this form of vandalism more frequently.

Yes Ive noticed words written on the windows of a train.

 

[AviationFR]

Trust me, I took a journey on the Estoril line in Portugal. The amount of graffiti & window etching on that line is ridiculous. Makes sense considering its an incredibly popular suburban line, which so many tourists travel on, but until you've ridden a suburban train in Europe, you aint seen nothing

 

[Runningaround]

Did anyone get prosecuted for this it must have been the most widespread and ugly tagging yet seen?

 

[86206]

View attachment 114127
Did anyone get prosecuted for this it must have been the most widespread and ugly tagging yet seen?

Nasty!

 

[Deepgreen]

GWR's 769930 at Guildford, heavily vandalised. Not yet in service (and may never be!) and already a mess.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2022 ==

Saw one of the station signs (on the platform) for Clapham Junction tagged the other day. I've very rarely (and never at this location) seen platform station signage tagged, so that's certainly an escalation.

Given the very frequent patrolling at CJ presumably that was a prize tag for the perpetrator/pond life.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2022 ==

View attachment 114127
Did anyone get prosecuted for this it must have been the most widespread and ugly tagging yet seen?

Indeed; surely someone must have seen them doing it?!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2022 ==

Yes Ive noticed words written on the windows of a train.

'First' and 'No Smoking' don't count.

 

[Ivor]

These I took at Brighton Station during lockdown, also badly vandalised inside the carriages too.

 

[kristiang85]

Trust me, I took a journey on the Estoril line in Portugal. The amount of graffiti & window etching on that line is ridiculous. Makes sense considering its an incredibly popular suburban line, which so many tourists travel on, but until you've ridden a suburban train in Europe, you aint seen nothing

I've ridden suburban trains in Italy too - on many you can barely see out of the window there is so much scratching and paint on them. Definitely things feel a lot "cleaner" here!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've ridden suburban trains in Italy too - on many you can barely see out of the window there is so much scratching and paint on them. Definitely things feel a lot "cleaner" here!

Circumvesuviana appears to be one of the worst for it - it almost looks abandoned.

 

[philthetube]

I do wish people would not advertise this sort of thing, displaying pics on here and other sites.

I think you tube should have a duty not to post graffiti and should be required to remove all posted and send any details of posters they have to both the police and the railway.

 

[DarloRich]

It makes for a very unpleasant travelling experience.

Could you explain this in more detail please? I don't understand how you feel like this?

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Seen the Russian 'Z' symbol and hammer and sycle symbol scratched into the mirror and wall in class 375 toilets on Southeastern recently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could you explain this in more detail please? I don't understand how you feel like this?

Personally I find my journey is of much lower quality if I can't see out of the window because someone has daubed paint all over it or scratched it.

 

[station_road]

Could you explain this in more detail please? I don't understand how you feel like this?

There have been many studies that show that people feel less safe in areas where grafitti is present (rightly or wrongly, it's how people feel rather than whether they are actually less safe). For example

Research in practice no. 6. Canberra: Australian Institute of Criminology.

Where prevalent, graffiti can contribute to a sense of fear in communities by undermining a sense of community safety through giving the impression that public spaces and private property are not cared for or respected (Sutton, Cherney & White 2008). Perceptions of graffiti as vandalism and the impact it has on feelings of safety are based on its association with more severe types of offending (Bandaranaike 2001). Anxiety about crime being out of control has been attributed to the existence of graffiti in a community (Bandaranaike 2001). The presence of graffiti is perceived to be indicative of a general decline in the quality of public space which will result in other more serious crimes.

 

[Ken H]

No, good quality CCTV and thick plastic film applied to the inside of windows have thankfully killed this off. It was rife around the turn of the century, I remember it particularly on the Thames Trains 165s and 166s, the Southern slammers (which were being run into the ground by that time anyway) and West Midlands Travel buses, where the rear upper deck windows were almost translucent!

I can remember reading that this was a problem back in Victorian times where affluent young men wearing diamond rings would carve their initials in the glass. It probably continued ever since at a low level, but what caused the mass outbreak one hundred years later, I've no idea.

At Plas-y-Bremin outdoor centre in n Wales, they have a window that Queen Victoria signed with a diamond in her ring. Posh graffiti?

 

[geoffk]

Even agricultural buildings in a National Park. It's a widespread societal issue, not just railways or transport.

I've noticed graffiti on the railways is often worse in Europe as more vehicles get tagged (lack of fencing?). Admittedly I've not been to the continent since 2016 and on that occasion Italy and Slovenia were the worst and even Switzerland suffered from it. On the other hand, I've not really encountered vandalism or ASB except in Britain.

 

[Sprinter107]

There have been many studies that show that people feel less safe in areas where grafitti is present (rightly or wrongly, it's how people feel rather than whether they are actually less safe). For example

Research in practice no. 6. Canberra: Australian Institute of Criminology.

I agree with that. I think places with graffiti have a threatening and menacing atmosphere, and I will try and avoid those places. Likewise, I will try not to travel in vandalised vehicles.

 

[Meole]

Came across an active tagger dressed very well behind Temple Meads, he was just setting up and showed me his wheelie suitcase full of specialist spray cans which are apparently produced for the purpose and are upwards of £ 30 each he said, about 40 cans, around £ 1000 therefore in that case, he was putting his camera in position to live stream which pays for the operation and he said a modest life style, so its a modern career option. The canvas was a derelict wall already used as it were and not causing damage, he claimed he only used that type of location. A pleasant young man with a different outlook to an older generation.