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People don't seem to take that view if it is Banksy doing something on someone's wall without permission!
But most of those murals ARE graffiti and would have been initially done without permission.
But you've literally said about you taking a tour of such graffiti murals in Belfast so clearly all graffiti doesn't outrage you. You actually do appreciate some of it! Or do you decide that if you like it then it is not longer graffiti?
He also appears to support Graffiti/Art that he likes on property where the landlord/Resident had little choice to have, but is outraged of the same on those that have. I'm pretty sure those living around Anfield had more choice on whether they had Klopp on their wall than those living on the end terrace of a Belfast estate had of a Paramilitary. And Banksy just puts his ''art'' on anyone's property without permisson.
So you were all right with paint going straight down the drain.
So it's only ok if youhave an interest in the topic but anyone elses is vandalism. What difference is having a Mural of a significant part of Belfast's history on your house depicting violent events or Paramilitaries, to Liverpool having one of Mo Salah, Kenny Dalgleish, Bill Shankly and Jurgen Klopp celebrating the achievements' of Liverpool FC? .
The Irish example has been assimilated into Irish history just as much as "Cofiwch Dryweryn" mural at Llanrhystud has been assimilated into that of Wales.
Footballers are merely fleeting people of no great consequence in the historical scheme of things from my perspective.
As for the spilt paint going down the drain it was actually blasted into the gutter and quickly dispersed - wasn't that much of it.
The Irish example has been assimilated into Irish history just as much as "Cofiwch Dryweryn" mural at Llanrhystud has been assimilated into that of Wales.
Footballers are merely fleeting people of no great consequence in the historical scheme of things from my perspective.
As for the spilt paint going down the drain it was actually blasted into the gutter and quickly dispersed - wasn't that much of it.
In your opinion ! Football has played a significant role in the history of Liverpool and is growing even more and so because you don't care for Footballers on a wall it's Graffiti, as you care about Irish history a painted wall becomes art.
"Little artistic merit" is a ridiculous statement. It clearly does have artistic merit in the eyes of the public and I would go as far as to say only a tiny proportion of the population have his skill, which is why there is "hype" and why his artwork has monetary value. One way to make money is to create something that appeals to a lot of people but can only be matched by very few. You might not appreciate it but you are only one of many in society, and you are in the minority as far as your opinion is concerned.
What shocks me is with the YouTube London graffiti video upthread is the apparent lack of security around depots and stations. The vandals seemed to have unlimited access to commit crime. Even the security camera was low enough to be accessed and damaged. I'd have thought a low security camera would have had a metal grill round to prevent damage.
Little artistic merit" is a ridiculous statement. It clearly does have artistic merit in the eyes of the public and I would go as far as to say only a tiny proportion of the population have his skill, which is why there is "hype" and why his artwork has monetary value. One way to make money is to create something that appeals to a lot of people but can only be matched by very few. You might not appreciate it but you are only one of many in society, and you are in the minority as far as your opinion is concerned.
It’s appreciated by *some* of the public. Any number of cartoonists and genuine artists could produce what he does. By far his bigness talent has been cultivating an image and playing on the mystery around his identity. That’s generally how the art world works - Tracy Emin being another great example of someone who seems to have no discernible talent at all other than for being controversial and building an image. I could produce most of the “art” she does myself and I’m in no way artistically inclined! The reality is she can produce any old rubbish and gullible people will still fawn over it and pay £££ to own it because of who has produced it.
The vast majority of graffiti consists of low grade tagging and writing offensive words. It’s an absolute scourge and is a sign of the weak society we live in because the perpetrators know that, even if they are caught, they won’t be properly punished.
I note my questions above remain unanswered, so I’ll repeat them: would any of those defending graffiti on this thread he happy for me to come and daub swear words over their property? And are those people happy that large amounts of tax and fare revenues are used cleaning graffiti of railway property?
In your opinion ! Football has played a significant role in the history of Liverpool and is growing even more and so because you don't care for Footballers on a wall it's Graffiti, as you care about Irish history a painted wall becomes art.
I like railways but it doesn't make me want to paint trains on walls!
Thus why should football fans want to do this?
As I said originally said with Ireland the graffiti has become art has taken on a different aspect due to the very nature of the place political / cultural and has been assimilated into the history of the region and is now exploited as part of the tourist industry.
I can't say the garbage painted on walks and rolling stock etc could even count as art.
Graffiti is a bit like garden weeds. I once saw it written that weeds are often described as being plants growing where the gardener doesn't want a plant to grow and not necessarily a particular weed species.
That probably sums up my attitude to graffiti.
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I like railways but it doesn't make me want to paint trains on walls!
Thus why should football fans want to do this?
As I said originally said with Ireland the graffiti has become art has taken on a different aspect due to the very nature of the place political / cultural and has been assimilated into the history of the region and is now exploited as part of the tourist industry.
I can't say the garbage painted on walks and rolling stock etc could even count as art.
Graffiti is a bit like garden weeds. I once saw it written that weeds are often described as being plants growing where the gardener doesn't want a plant to grow and not necessarily a particular weed species.
That probably sums up my attitude to graffiti.
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Emin, Banksy etc have only got to their elevated status due to the press / Media / social media.
We need to realise that the media hold a certain responsibility.
In my view Emin is like Marmite either like what she does or think it's a load of rubbish. I am very much with you on that it doesn't have any merit.
But as the old saying goes fools and their money are easily parted and if people want to pay silly prices that's up to them.
However, Banksy is a vandal pure and simple who has given less talented people an excuse to follow behind.
If the press recognised the bigger picture of what putting him/her on a pedestal has done they could reset the agenda on graffiti.
But as we have seen recently on a couple of other contentious issues the media lead and the sheep sadly follow.
I see you only accept something that you like as art and dismiss the rest as Graffiti or vandalism regardless, even when you haven't seen it, the style would fit into the same genre as Belfast.
Anfield residents had a choice or may have done the mural to their own property. Do you think those in Belfast did?
And I think you'll find Liverpool's success has a significant part in the history of not just the city but is recognised throughout the world as a major part of Liverpool's identity even more so than the Beatles.
It never seems to amaze me how these "artists", or whatever they wish to call themselves can get up signal gantries risking not only being hit by running trains but electrocution on the juice rail. The approaches to London Bridge spring to mind...
It never seems to amaze me how these "artists", or whatever they wish to call themselves can get up signal gantries risking not only being hit by running trains but electrocution on the juice rail. The approaches to London Bridge spring to mind...
Simple solutions will do for most any fence or padlock if you are determined enough. The costs to make the railway more secure would quickly start escalating rapidly, for very little impact. ISTR about 3 years ago some young taggers met a very sad end near Tulse Hill. If that didn't stop people going in for the thrill, then security will do nothing.
I think we had a thread on this a while ago, and a member posted that with active policing and some good intelligence gathering he reduced graffiti to such an extent his task-force was shut down. No prizes for guessing what happened quickly afterwards! Maintaining an active police resource to protect and pre-empt graffiti costs money, so are people prepared for their fares to rise to cover it?
Equally, on the same thread, one member posted that part of the thrill was just seeing their tags out on the line. So perhaps we need to come up with ways of finishing train liveries that are quicker to replace. F1-style tearoff vinyls maybe? But then covering the vast acres of brickwork on the network in anti-graffiti paint is also going to cost an absolute fortune, so once again how to pay for it?
I personally don't like graffiti, especially when it's just a name, but I don't want my fare to jump by 10% to remove something that isn't grossly offensive or obstructing safety-related signs and equipment. I wouldn't be happy about it happening to my house either, but then again if it was just a tag I'd leave it (as I have done at the moment), if it was a swear word I might get a tin of paint out to cover it up, but not much more.
It wasn't me that jet washed it off. It was actually a very small amount of paint and as I said it went in the gutter. By the time a few cars rolled through it is was well and truly dispersed. Certainly not the same as disposing of old paint down the drain! With all the other rubbish that gets in the drains it is well and truly insignificant.
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I see you only accept something that you like as art and dismiss the rest as Graffiti or vandalism regardless, even when you haven't seen it, the style would fit into the same genre as Belfast.
Anfield residents had a choice or may have done the mural to their own property. Do you think those in Belfast did?
And I think you'll find Liverpool's success has a significant part in the history of not just the city but is recognised throughout the world as a major part of Liverpool's identity even more so than the Beatles.
I think I have more than answered the Belfast issue. As for Anfield - it is just a few miles away - no reason to go there and thus not seen it.
However, I have now googled it and yes in artistic style is very good and if done with permission okay.
At least here in Liverpool you are not likely to get a visit from a paramilitary group insisting it is in one's best interest to allow it to be done!
However, that sort of work is rather the exception than the rule. Almost all we see applied to walls and trains is just messy scrawl and cannot be justified.
As you may have gathered I am not quite into Liverpool's "pop culture" - but that is me.
Camborne has Trevithick, Bristol, Saltash, Neyland and Swindon claim Brunel, Newcastle has Stephenson - and what do he have? The Beatles, Gerry Marsden and Cilla Black plus two football teams! We do have few overlooked famous and worthy people but they don't quite fit the image.
