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Two competing bids for London-Blackpool

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pete_m911

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The Times is reporting the DfT's 'headache' over two competing bids for London-Blackpool services, any ideas who the second company is? Alliance Rail perhaps? Can't see the entire article.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
This is the link I cannot access:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/busin...e3739155.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2013_04_14


Suddenly, it seems that everybody wants to go to Blackpool on the train



A battle to run direct high-speed rail services between London and Blackpool for the first time in more than a decade is creating a political headache at the Department for Transport.

The Lancashire seaside resort fell off Virgin Trains’ direct intercity rail timetable after a rejig of priorities at the turn of the millennium. Now, with two competing offers to run direct train services to London, the town has become a test case for politicians over how far they want to encourage competition on the railways....
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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northwichcat

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Regarding Alliance since the Arriva takeover of Grand Central they are no longer competing with each other with rival bids - Alliance will work on the the proposals for new services and Grand Central will run the new services.
 

pete_m911

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I've just read the article in full, appears that it is Alliance who are the other bidders. Claims Virgin's application 'has created tension between politicians and civil servants within the DfT over whether Great North Western should be allowed a free run at running the Blackpool services'. No surprises there then!
 

northwichcat

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Regarding Alliance they propose 5 daily services with a 2 hourly frequency with the following calling points:

Euston
Milton Keynes
Rugby
Nuneaton
Tamworth
Lichfield
Crewe
Winsford Parkway
Warrington Bank Quay
Newton-le-Willows Parkway
Preston
Kirkham & Wesham
Poulton-le-Fylde
Blackpool North

The ones highlighted in red will be a bit of an issue for a December 2012 timetable even if they could obtain suitable stock.

They also propose 3 daily services to Carlisle interworking with the Blackpool services

Euston
Milton Keynes
Rugby
Nuneaton
Tamworth
Lichfield
Crewe
Winsford Parkway
Warrington Bank Quay
Newton-le-Willows Parkway
Preston
Lancaster
Carnforth
Ulverston
Barrow-in-Furness
Millom
Sellafield
Whitehaven
Workington
Maryport
Wigton
Carlisle
 

Zoe

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I prefer alliances proposal as it will be calling at Nuneaton!
Virgin's bid for the WCML proposed additional calls at Nuneaton.

Virgin Trains Media Room said:
New Services – our bid also proposes new direct services to Telford/Shrewsbury/Blackpool/Bolton but they would start a year earlier than FG. We would also double the frequency to Preston and increase calls to North Wales/Nuneaton/Milton Keynes and speed up journey times between Euston and Glasgow. In addition we would create new services to Stirling, Motherwell, Hartford, Liverpool South Parkway, and further enhance services for Gobowen/Chirk/Ruabon/Wrexham, increase journey opportunities between Milton Keynes/Rugby/Stafford to the North West and increase calls at Tamworth/Lichfield.
 

northwichcat

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Why would Newton-le-Willows [Parkway] be an issue?

Alliance proposed Newton-le-Willows and Winsford would have new large car parks built and be renamed as 'Parkway' stations. Newton-le-Willows currently has 15 parking spaces and it looks like any new parking spaces would be the other side of the track to the current parking area so might need a new access road, new footbridges, new lifts etc.

Winsford is a bigger issue because it needs platform lengthening (to take the 5 car trains proposed) and while there is nearby vacant land which can be used for a car park there is a subsidence risk in the area. Alliance have proposed Hartford as an alternative if Winsford doesn't go to plan but then you'd have a station that can take 11 car trains, which quite often has a full car park and not much land to build a new car park, so it might need to be an expensive multi-story on the site of the existing car park.
 

cle

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Alliance's suggestion would take about 4 hours! Forget it...
 

TDK

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Regarding Alliance since the Arriva takeover of Grand Central they are no longer competing with each other with rival bids - Alliance will work on the the proposals for new services and Grand Central will run the new services.

Your source on this?
 

hairyhandedfool

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There's no car park to speak of...

Doesn't stop the trains calling though. I know that not having a sufficient car park goes against the idea of a parkway station, but travel by car isn't the only way to get to Newton-le-Willows to connect with a long distance train service.

....To say nothing of the trains crossing the WCML and L&M twice to reach it....

And what would they get in the way of? The twice hourly London/Birmingham-Scotland services? The Chat Moss route has gaps in service each way, so it's really a case of sufficient gaps on the Chat Moss and WCML lining up atm. Of course that may be more tricky in future years if more trains use the Chat Moss, then again, it'll only be on that line for three or four minutes.

....The Alliance proposals are complete nonsense until they have trains.

The trains are nonsensical without a route to run them on. Which do you propose should come first? Getting fast trains for December could be quite hard, though I imagine not impossible (unless you only count new trains).

Alliance proposed Newton-le-Willows and Winsford would have new large car parks built and be renamed as 'Parkway' stations. Newton-le-Willows currently has 15 parking spaces and it looks like any new parking spaces would be the other side of the track to the current parking area so might need a new access road, new footbridges, new lifts etc....

I was aware of their plans for a parkway, that wasn't quite what I meant, however, it wouldn't be a bad thing for Newton if they got that in the long run, Alliance did want the same for Eccles on their other long distance plans, though Eccles has no room for a new car park and no simple access even if it did.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Is the Carlisle route all under the wires? If so, I fully advocate 87 or 86s with 5 mk2 or 3s and dvt!

It is via Shap (WCML), however on the route Alliance are proposing to run via (Barrow; the Coast) is unelectrified between the two junctions it has with the WCML.
 

GNERman

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Just noticed by clicking on a link in an old thread on Alliance and Blackpool that the CSRE UK website has been shut down.

I noticed this a few days ago. Also, the Wikipedia article on the Polaris Unit has been modified, with the sections now all saying "The Polaris concept will now not be taken to market"
 

ainsworth74

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That's a big shame, scrap the stations which force it to take that path and get those BR electrics back on the west coast!

In which case it won't get approval as it would be completely abstracting ICWC's revenue whilst adding very little in benefits. Not that it'll get approval anyway.
 

The Planner

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Has to be said, it is going to need some very odd set down and pick up only combinations to get through any abstraction test.
 

northwichcat

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Has to be said, it is going to need some very odd set down and pick up only combinations to get through any abstraction test.

I thought the competition protection Virgin had expired at the end of last year which would make it easier for Open Access operators to include calls at stations such as Preston, Stockport and Crewe.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I thought the competition protection Virgin had expired at the end of last year which would make it easier for Open Access operators to include calls at stations such as Preston, Stockport and Crewe.

It still has to pass the "not primarily abstractive" test, ie generate more net revenue.
But no stations are off limits any more.
It's just that calls at any station with an existing service to London will inevitably be abstractive.
 

Old Hill Bank

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Alliance proposed Newton-le-Willows and Winsford would have new large car parks built and be renamed as 'Parkway' stations. Newton-le-Willows currently has 15 parking spaces and it looks like any new parking spaces would be the other side of the track to the current parking area so might need a new access road, new footbridges, new lifts etc.

Winsford is a bigger issue because it needs platform lengthening (to take the 5 car trains proposed) and while there is nearby vacant land which can be used for a car park there is a subsidence risk in the area. Alliance have proposed Hartford as an alternative if Winsford doesn't go to plan but then you'd have a station that can take 11 car trains, which quite often has a full car park and not much land to build a new car park, so it might need to be an expensive multi-story on the site of the existing car park.

Caught a train from Newton last week, there is nowhere to put a big car park and the station would need a massive amount of investment before it could become an inter city interchange. It can be damned cold up there to.
I think most of these open access proposals are doomed to fail!
 
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