Transpennine woes and a moan...

[childwallblues]

I went for the 0754 Lime Street to Leeds on Tuesday morning. Travelled on a later running 0656 from Broad Green (323229) into Lime Street. On arrival this train forms the 0727 to Crewe via Manchester. As TPE had cancelled both the 0654 to Scarborough and the 0724 to Newcastle the 0727 which stops all stations was full and standing on departure. The 0754 (802206) ran and was busier than normal. The 0758 (319370) local stopper to Victoria had many more passengers than normal.
The 0812 to Glasgow was running only as far as Preston due to crew shortages.
Another pretty poor day for TPE. And they are coming back on to the CLC later this year - it could get even worse.

 

[LowLevel]

I went for the 0754 Lime Street to Leeds on Tuesday morning. Travelled on a later running 0656 from Broad Green (323229) into Lime Street. On arrival this train forms the 0727 to Crewe via Manchester. As TPE had cancelled both the 0654 to Scarborough and the 0724 to Newcastle the 0727 which stops all stations was full and standing on departure. The 0754 (802206) ran and was busier than normal. The 0758 (319370) local stopper to Victoria had many more passengers than normal.
The 0812 to Glasgow was running only as far as Preston due to crew shortages.
Another pretty poor day for TPE. And they are coming back on to the CLC later this year - it could get even worse.

To be fair the trains they are replacing on the CLC have hardly run for ages anyway. If there's random cancellations of key services it could be problematic, but anything that does run is better than the current theoretical but largely non existent Lime St - Airport services.

 

[Fokx]

Also with the CLC route the majority of the traincrew sign the route and traction already who are due to operate that way.

With 185 on both the Hull and Cleethorpes route, it becomes easier to rotate/split 185 stock as and when required, which is currently what happens in Manchester.

Largely Liverpool-Manchester will be 185, core traction for most depots. Where this will become more of a problem is for the Nova 1 and 3 stock.

 

[Dspatula]

To be fair the trains they are replacing on the CLC have hardly run for ages anyway. If there's random cancellations of key services it could be problematic, but anything that does run is better than the current theoretical but largely non existent Lime St - Airport services.

It's more that it's effectively replacing one of the CLC stoppers at the same time though and given the chat moss stopper runs after the east mids service any cancellation on TPE is going is going to be fun time for everyone.

 

[mike57]

And they are coming back on to the CLC later this year - it could get even worse.

I wasn't aware of that, where or what are they running, I used to be able to get a direct train from Seamer to Birchwood, Warrington C and Liverpool SP, all of which are fairly regular work journeys for me, but then the 2018 fiasco broke all that, and Birchwood and Liverpool SP are a right pain now, Warrington at least I can head to Bank Quay.

 

[Fokx]

I wasn't aware of that, where or what are they running, I used to be able to get a direct train from Seamer to Birchwood, Warrington C and Liverpool SP, all of which are fairly regular work journeys for me, but then the 2018 fiasco broke all that, and Birchwood and Liverpool SP are a right pain now, Warrington at least I can head to Bank Quay.

Liverpool to Cleethorpes

 

[mike57]

Liverpool to Cleethorpes

OK no help to me then. I feel sorry for the passengers on the CLC who will turn up for their TPE train and find it cancelled or short formed.

 

[Sam 76]

TPE are so frustrating sometimes. I love the units but the delays and cancellations (many not their fault) are a nightmare makes for a un predictable journey every time

 

[Ianigsy]

Not a great experience last night- I planned to travel on the 1715 Leeds- Liverpool and noticed during the day that the two previous trains were cancelled. Well, I thought, at least there’s another Manchester train about 10 minutes ahead of mine- except that was delayed, so the 1715 took potentially three trains’ worth of people and made an additional stop at Stalybridge.

On the approach to Miles Platting, we then spent about 45 minutes behind what looked like a ballast train, which preceded us into Victoria and sat on the opposite platform. Arrival at Lime Street was about 65 minutes late - we were passing through Edge Hill an hour after we should have arrived, and I missed the West Kirby train by about 30 seconds….

 

[Foxcover]

You wouldn‘t have been any better at Piccadilly yesterday (thurs 25) late afternoon, where multiple trains were being cancelled and a security problem (my daughters were told by staff it was an abandoned bag on the train) put one of the 13/14 platforms out of action for a while.

People were told to walk from Piccadilly to Oxford Road to pick up a TfW service heading west to Chester, which my daughters did, and a 6-car (2x3 car 175) duly arrived from the Piccadilly direction around 1657.

Guessing one of the 175s was the previous Llandudno service that was cancelled, and TfW sensibly ran them both as a strengthened recovery service and to position them correctly; not sure why it couldn’t stop at Piccadilly though. RTT shows a mix of cancelled and part cancelled services around MCO at that time for TfW so maybe everyone was confused.

Whatever it was, 13/14 were even less fun than usual!

 

[greyman42]

There was nothing from York to Scarborough on 25/08/22 between 1617 and 1917. Does anyone know what TPE did regarding the passengers?

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

TPE now put cancellations down 'short notice change to timetable' rather than lack of drivers!

 

[LowLevel]

Luckily yesterday was a Bank Holiday weekend Sunday so it was less catastrophic than it should have been but I have to admit it was killing me cramming my passengers into 2 carriage 35 year old trains whilst a load of 185s were sat idle in the middle roads at Sheffield as usual.

Following both TPE and Northern in that hour being cancelled I managed to squeeze at least 250 people into a 2 car 156 at Piccadilly after the 158 that was also meant to be on the train broke down on the depot.

It makes make you wonder if it will ever get better.

 

[XAM2175]

TPE now put cancellations down 'short notice change to timetable' rather than lack of drivers!

That's a very poor reason to use in passenger-facing contexts, as far as I'm concerned. They really should be required to give the reason for the short-notice change unless there's genuinely no other way of explaining it.

 

[Watershed]

TPE now put cancellations down 'short notice change to timetable' rather than lack of drivers!

Presumably because ASLEF/RMT have asked them to change the reason to avoid traincrew getting stick from the public.

It's a difficult one, because whilst 'short notice change to the timetable' isn't wrong, it's also not terribly helpful. And I'm not convinced that obscuring the real reason for a cancellation/delay is really going to make a notable difference to assault rates.

People appreciate honesty and at the moment there is still no public communication really explaining what is happening and why. And the timetable generally remains as unreliable as it has been for the last 8 months, with little sign of improvement.

 

[DanNCL]

Almost all of TPE's services to/from Newcastle have been cancelled today. They have completely failed to provide any form of alternative transport for Chester-le-Street, and the alternative transport for Durham and Darlington is ticket acceptance on likely already packed out XC services.

 

[Leaguer]

This is getting ridiculous now. My partner is going to Liverpool from Leeds today so I looked on the pre planned cancellations and the train was running which was the 1114. Looking this morning it was cancelled and so was several others. Alternative Northern services would take longer do she decided to drive even though she didn't want to.
Recently several trains that she has wanted to catch in the North have been cancelled. I think in the future she will not even think about the train and automatically decide to drive due to the woeful service provided and we are people that are pro public transport

 

[childwallblues]

Also with the CLC route the majority of the traincrew sign the route and traction already who are due to operate that way.

With 185 on both the Hull and Cleethorpes route, it becomes easier to rotate/split 185 stock as and when required, which is currently what happens in Manchester.

Largely Liverpool-Manchester will be 185, core traction for most depots. Where this will become more of a problem is for the Nova 1 and 3 stock.

It is 802 on LIV-NCL and 397 on LIV-GLC.

 

[Fokx]

It is 802 on LIV-NCL and 397 on LIV-GLC.

1x 802 an hour
1x 397 infrequently
1 or 2 x 185 an hour
1x 68 infrequently (2 on the circuit from Dec, 4 from May)

Therefore Liverpool to Manchester will largely be 185

 

[yorksrob]

One RRB an hour from Victoria to Stalybridge is woefully inadequate.

 

[Fokx]

One RRB an hour from Victoria to Stalybridge is woefully inadequate.

How exactly?
There’s an hourly service from Victoria to Stalybridge anyway in the current timetable.

There’s also an hourly Piccadilly to Huddersfield all stations bus running reflecting what the Sunday timetable would be

 

[DanNCL]

How exactly?
There’s an hourly service from Victoria to Stalybridge anyway in the current timetable.

There’s also an hourly Piccadilly to Huddersfield all stations bus running reflecting what the Sunday timetable would be

It’s not Sunday!

 

[LittleAH]

It’s not Sunday!

And?

RRB between Stalybridge and Manchester has never been well used. There's two buses an hour throughout this weekend. Locals are more likely to use the tram from Ashton as its cheaper and often quicker than a RRB.

 

[nr758123]

There’s also an hourly Piccadilly to Huddersfield all stations bus running reflecting what the Sunday timetable would be

Ironically better, at least in terms of frequency, than the current Sunday train service. The last time we had the full hourly Sunday stopping service was as long ago as February.
The downside of the hourly replacement bus is that the timings are very, very generous.

One RRB an hour from Victoria to Stalybridge is woefully inadequate.

I think the theory behind bus replacement is that TPE hope that a large proportion of passengers will make other arrangements or choose not to travel. Hence when they cancel three trains in a row in the evening peak (3x class 185 = circa 500 seats), the replacement road transport consists of an overgrown taxi (fewer than 10 seats). This only works if most passengers make other arrangements at their own expense.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2022 ==

RRB between Stalybridge and Manchester has never been well used. There's two buses an hour throughout this weekend. Locals are more likely to use the tram from Ashton as its cheaper and often quicker than a RRB.

RRB only works if most of the passengers either make other arrangements such as you describe, or if they decide not to travel. Looking at some of the timings for today, in a race between a moderately fit cyclist and the RRB the cyclist would win comfortably.

 

[Fokx]

It’s not Sunday!

I’m aware of that, it’s merely the sunday frequency of service. Additionally It’s actually the normal daily service provision (hourly Southport to Vic and hourly stopper to Pic) minus the peak extras, but it’s easier for me to just post Sunday service provision

Stalybridge is well serviced by service buses such as the 219 which passengers usually use during disruption, passengers from Ashton either use the tram or the 216/219 to/from Manchester

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2022 ==

I think the theory behind bus replacement is that TPE hope that a large proportion of passengers will make other arrangements or choose not to travel. Hence when they cancel three trains in a row in the evening peak (3x class 185 = circa 500 seats), the replacement road transport consists of an overgrown taxi (fewer than 10 seats). This only works if most passengers make other arrangements at their own expense.

That’s actually more to do with the fact TPE use first transport solutions companies for their rail replacement services for both staff and crew.

There’s a national bus driver shortage across the UK, and the new law that RRB’s must have facilities for disabled passengers limits the type of vehicles that can be used. There is a real struggle to obtain large vehicles like coaches or low floor buses because the private hire companies don’t have as much spare staff as they used to anymore, often because they pay less than the ‘big 4’ which have a constant stream of vacancies at the moment and can offer both training and CPC training to new entrants.

A request will go out for 53 seater coaches, and often the closest they can find is 3x 16 seater minibuses or a fleet of local taxis

 

[JD2168]

The amount of cancellations on the Manchester to Cleethorpes via Sheffield line must have put off a number of day trippers over the summer this year particularly the 9:11 from Sheffield which keeps being cancelled causing you to wait for the 11:11 & hope that is not cancelled. The same with the amount of cancellations after the 4:24pm from Cleethorpes.

 

[Tracked]

The amount of cancellations on the Manchester to Cleethorpes via Sheffield line must have put off a number of day trippers over the summer this year particularly the 9:11 from Sheffield which keeps being cancelled causing you to wait for the 11:11 & hope that is not cancelled. The same with the amount of cancellations after the 4:24pm from Cleethorpes.

I know someone who took their grandson to Cleethorpes last month, 3 trains back in a row were cancelled that afternoon (think his daughter eventually picked them up).

Was in Sheffield yesterday morning & noticed the 09:10 Manchester train was cancelled, ticket acceptance on the Hope Valley stopper, which was a 3-car 195; I've not been as often as I used to, but that would've been cosy if passenger numbers were anything like they used to be. They managed a single 185 an hour later, which might've been interesting; the last time I went on this pre-covid it was nearly full by the time it reached Doncaster, and when it reached Sheffield P6 was rammed to the point where it was a struggle to get off, with a detour round P8 needed to get to the stairs. The only time I've done it this year was in January, where 2 x 185's were on, as I was sat at the back I got a seat and also missed any crowd at Sheffield.

 

[Fokx]

Was in Sheffield yesterday morning & noticed the 09:10 Manchester train was cancelled, ticket acceptance on the Hope Valley stopper, which was a 3-car 195; I've not been as often as I used to, but that would've been cosy if passenger numbers were anything like they used to be. They managed a single 185 an hour later, which might've been interesting

The 0911 was cancelled
The 0914 was a 3 car
The 0942 was a 2 car and ran late due to mechanical problems
The 1011 was a 3 car and a tight squeeze. The host could not safely board and was left behind.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Almost all of TPE's services to/from Newcastle have been cancelled today. They have completely failed to provide any form of alternative transport for Chester-le-Street, and the alternative transport for Durham and Darlington is ticket acceptance on likely already packed out XC services.

The thing is, its not like there are shortages of crew as besides those booked to work there were 5 conductors booking on spare at Newcastle between 04:00 and 07:00 - there would have been 6 but I took a lieu day - and there were spare drivers too. none of us no longer sign anywhere beyond Huddersfield and dont sign Calder Valler diversion either which means we cannot cross cover Liverpool any more and this is an area where our flexibility has been lost. There was however an uncovered newcastle conductor shift later in the day which none of the early spares could cover due to rostering hours limitations although a York conductor covered that job he still found the service was cancelled anyway

following the 07:43 off Newcastle the next departure from Newcastle that ran was 14:47. Thats 6 hours and 6 service diagrams out of 8 not operating any part of the service at all. Totally unacceptable that none of the trains ran between those two departures which would have reduced the remaining service across the pennines to one 6 car car 185 per hour, and that even operated as some 3 vice 6 diagrams. Its fair to say front line staff are thoroughly fed up of seeing such a poor service operating

 

[yorksrob]

And?

RRB between Stalybridge and Manchester has never been well used. There's two buses an hour throughout this weekend. Locals are more likely to use the tram from Ashton as its cheaper and often quicker than a RRB.

How exactly?
There’s an hourly service from Victoria to Stalybridge anyway in the current timetable.

There’s also an hourly Piccadilly to Huddersfield all stations bus running reflecting what the Sunday timetable would be

Because the Saturday service is half hourly.

Not everyone using the train is a local.