Transpennine woes and a moan...

[mike57]

and double 185 its 704 seats per hour.

Yes but it isnt a double 185, not all services are timetabled for double 185 and those that are frequently turn up short formed. So probably 522 per hour a lot of the time.

 

[185]

Transpennine Express to cut major services due to staff shortages

The rail provider said temporary changes had to be made following 'a range of issues' including 'sustained high levels of sickness'

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Transpennine Express to cut services from Manchester due to staff shortages in yet another blow to rail industry
The rail provider said temporary changes had to be made following 'a range of issues' including 'sustained high levels of sickness'

The new TPE timetables will commence next Monday (September 12) (Image: PA)

Major rail provider Transpennine Express has announced it will be cutting some of its major services, including from Manchester, due to staff shortages in yet another blow to the rail industry. It comes as passengers up and down the country have faced last minute cancellations and slashed timetables in recent months, following the biggest strikes in a generation.

Passengers relying on Transpennine (TPE) services on routes between Manchester and Liverpool, Preston, Lancaster, Edinburgh and Glasgow will be hit by the temporary timetable changes from next Monday, which the rail provider said had to be made to offer a more 'reliable service' following 'a range of issues' including' 'sustained high levels of sickness' and 'a training backlog' as a direct result of Covid-19.

Transpennine Express, which runs regional services in the north west of England and Scotland, announced it would be cutting almost one in four of its services from September 12 in order to significantly reduce the 'on the day' or ‘evening before’ cancellations that travellers have faced recently.

The news pushes yet more pressure on the struggling rail industry, particularly here in Manchester, with major operator Avanti West Coast also facing fierce criticism from passengers and politicians for a major shake up of its timetabled services last month.

Mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham even warned of 'dangerous stampedes' for Manchester-bound trains at London Euston as trains between the two cities were slashed from every 20 minutes to one an hour after fewer drivers signed up to work on their rest days. City-region mayor, Andy Burnham, leader of Manchester City Council, Bev Craig, and London mayor, Sadiq Khan, penned a letter to the transport secretary, Grant Shapps, asking for an urgent meeting to restore the full timetable.

The Manchester Evening News reported fresh complaints from passengers who hit out at the new timetables, which came in the light of under-fire operator Avanti West Coast boss Phil Whittingham stepping down. Passengers scoffed at 'disruption every single week' on the country's rail network following months of strikes over pay and conditions.

TPE's newer reduced timetable, set to come in from next Monday (September 12) will see nine of its 40 daily services cut on the Anglo-Scottish route, with 15 Northbound and 16 Southbound services still running per day. These include services between Manchester Airport and Glasgow, Liverpool and Preston and Manchester Airport and Lancaster.

Transpennine Express will be cutting almost one in four of its services from next Monday

"We have put in place measures to communicate this revised timetable to any affected customers and believe that by bringing this timetable in, we will help customers have more confidence and certainty in the delivery of our services.” Jerry Farquharson, service planning and performance director at TPE, said in a statement.

“This temporary amended timetable for our services between the North West of England and Scotland will help us provide more stability and certainty for customers travelling on this route.

Sure many of you already read this, but I think those inflammatory comments (al-la Avanti) blaming staff sickness when it's morelike straightforward mismanagement bordering on (imo) fraud - comments which can only worsen the situation with overtime volunteers thinking... 'why should I help a company out who falsely blames me for their own failures?'

I say bordering on fraud quite comfortably. Again a situation observed last week where a train was cancelled citing 'traincrew shortage' when two guards and three drivers sat spare and all could have easily worked it within their day... TPE Control's reason - when it comes back there is no shunt driver (seven hours later) to move it onto the sidings - which is just farcical.

How much did the the DfT pay them for that? I wrote to the ORR some time ago with a string of cancellations I considered wrongly attributed - they seemed happy to back TPE up regardless.

 

[mike57]

@185 post highlights serious problems as have others. My comment is there is no penalty for failure.

 

[LittleAH]

Transpennine Express to cut major services due to staff shortages

The rail provider said temporary changes had to be made following 'a range of issues' including 'sustained high levels of sickness'

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Sure many of you already read this, but I think those inflammatory comments (al-la Avanti) blaming staff sickness when it's morelike straightforward mismanagement bordering on (imo) fraud - comments which can only worsen the situation with overtime volunteers thinking... 'why should I help a company out who falsely blames me for their own failures?'

I say bordering on fraud quite comfortably. Again a situation observed last week where a train was cancelled citing 'traincrew shortage' when two guards and three drivers sat spare and all could have easily worked it within their day... TPE Control's reason - when it comes back there is no shunt driver (seven hours later) to move it onto the sidings - which is just farcical.

How much did the the DfT pay them for that? I wrote to the ORR some time ago with a string of cancellations I considered wrongly attributed - they seemed happy to back TPE up regardless.

Do you have the staff sickness numbers?

 

[Killingworth]

Maybe it would be helpful to read TPE's full explanation to Stakeholders rather than a newspaper's summary. Sickness is mentioned but so are other causes. Clearly they can't magically restore all their services immediately so introducing a timetable they'd hope to be able to provide must be better than what we've been seeing lately.

The following circulated today

Temporary amendments to TransPennine Express West Coast Main Line services

I hope you are well. I am writing to inform you of the introduction of temporary amendments to TPE’s West Coast Main Line (WCML) services, the objective of which is to provide greater stability and certainty to our customers.

Throughout this year, the performance of our services on our network has faced ongoing disruption and short notice cancellations/amendments due to sustained high levels of sickness, a training backlog as a direct result of Covid-19 and other issues including reduced flexibility following the loss of our driver rest day working agreement.

These factors have resulted in a number of on-the-day or ‘evening before’ cancellations being made. We are acutely aware of the impact that this has for our customers and the communities on the line of route. As a result, we have concluded that we should bring in some temporary service amendments and supporting mitigations.

As we enter the autumn period, traditionally when railway performance is often adversely affected by poor weather, we are introducing on Monday 12 September a temporary amended timetable on our West Coast Main Line route that aims to provide greater stability and certainty for customers.

We currently schedule the operation of 40 services each weekday on the West Coast Main Line. This temporary timetable change reduces service levels to a similar level provided pre-May 2022 and is not being driven by budgetary cost considerations or constraints – it is firmly aimed at supporting the best possible customer service based on the prevailing circumstances.

The revised timetable will mean a number of changes for those using our services on the route between Liverpool/Manchester, Preston, Lancaster and Edinburgh/Glasgow. From Monday 12 September, we will schedule the operation of 15 Northbound and 16 Southbound services day (inclusive of full and part services) on the West Coast Main Line. The nine temporarily withdrawn services include:

• In the Northbound direction three Manchester Airport-Glasgow services, a Liverpool-Preston service and a Manchester Airport-Lancaster service will be withdrawn from the timetable each weekday and two Manchester Airport-Glasgow services and a Manchester Airport-Edinburgh service will be withdrawn over part of the route.
• In the Southbound direction two Glasgow-Manchester Airport services, an Edinburgh-Manchester Airport service and a Lancaster-Manchester Airport service will be withdrawn from the timetable each weekday.
• An Oxenholme-Liverpool service will start from Lancaster and a Glasgow-Liverpool service and three Glasgow-Manchester services will each be withdrawn over part of the route.

Saturday service patterns will be similar to the weekdays, with some differences. Sunday services will reflect recent service patterns. Service patterns on both weekdays and weekends will continue to be impacted by planned engineering works. In addition, there will be significant impacts on those days when strike action is taking place.

The amended timetable is now visible on customer booking systems and on online reference tools such as National Rail and Realtime Trains. Customers who have bookings on the withdrawn services are being contacted to alert them to changes to their booked service, their alternative travel options and how, if needed, they can obtain a full refund. Advance Purchase fares remain available on our services (subject to availability) and details of ticket acceptance arrangements with other operators are available on our website (https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/travel-updates/temporary-timetable-amendments).

In making these temporary amendments, we have reviewed services in order to protect train services with peak demand or ensuring we continue to operate part of a service where demand is high for that part of the journey rather than the whole route, such as those for commuting and peak leisure travel periods.

We have also looked closely at the proximity of services of other train operators on the WCML and feeder routes. In most cases, where services are withdrawn travel can be made on a service provided by Avanti West Coast or Northern operating close to our normal departure time. In addition:

• We have asked Avanti West Coast if they will make additional stops in their services to cater for Penrith and Lockerbie customers on Saturdays which would represent an improvement over the current levels of service. Those additional calls would be added to their timetables when published each week when confirmed;
• Where any gaps occur compared to the current advertised rail service, and in response to feedback from Transport for the North members who have been consulted on this temporary timetable, we are finalising arrangements to put in rail replacement buses at certain times of the day to provide additional connectivity for stations between Motherwell – Carlisle, Penrith – Lockerbie, Edinburgh - Carlisle and Carlisle – Lockerbie to supplement rail services, where possible, for those customers whose regular journey option via train is impacted.
• For customers between Manchester and Preston, the Northern timetable ensures connectivity for places such as Bolton is protected, with experience to date showing that displaced customers from our cancelled services previously onto Northern services has not caused major capacity issues.

These temporary changes, and the aligned support from Avanti West Coast and Northern, are wholly aimed at providing customers with greater stability and certainty. Providing greater predictability is the key ask our customers are making and this action responds to that. (Cont)

Attached is a timetable summary for weekday services on the WCML (in this example focussing on Wednesday services) which includes affected services and indicates the timing of the closest available Avanti West Coast or Northern service if required. Bus replacement services are also included to outline connectivity and bus coordinators will be in place at those stations to support customers.

We will review and assess with stakeholders and the Rail North Partnership over the coming months the effectiveness of this timetable. Our aim is to progressively re-introduce services from the December 2022 timetable change, with full restoration by May 2023 at the latest.

We will keep you updated on the impact this temporary timetable has as well as the timeline for all services to be fully reinstated. This temporary amendment aims to provide customers with a more stable and reliable train service. If you have any queries regarding this change, please let us know.

 

[CAF397]

I can see the planned December 2022 timetable for the North and South routes going the same way here

 

[Clarence Yard]

Sure many of you already read this, but I think those inflammatory comments (al-la Avanti) blaming staff sickness when it's morelike straightforward mismanagement bordering on (imo) fraud - comments which can only worsen the situation with overtime volunteers thinking... 'why should I help a company out who falsely blames me for their own failures?'

I say bordering on fraud quite comfortably. Again a situation observed last week where a train was cancelled citing 'traincrew shortage' when two guards and three drivers sat spare and all could have easily worked it within their day... TPE Control's reason - when it comes back there is no shunt driver (seven hours later) to move it onto the sidings - which is just farcical.

How much did the the DfT pay them for that? I wrote to the ORR some time ago with a string of cancellations I considered wrongly attributed - they seemed happy to back TPE up regardless.

Sickness is only one issue, as the Company statement says. Sickness is becoming an issue on several TOCs at the moment and it’s an NHS related problem that is causing the real concern as staff are being laid off sick waiting treatments that have been delayed and the stood off list is getting longer. So, they are not blaming staff per se, it’s just a fact of (NHS) life these days.

TPE operate a recovery plan that bins off entire unit diagrams if one part of that days diagram cannot be crewed and there is no prospect of it being covered. They might have spares in the cabin for the very next working but if the one after that or towards end of day can’t be covered, that’s it - the diagram gets pulled.

 

[Killingworth]

I can see the planned December 2022 timetable for the North and South routes going the same way here

This morning TPE's normally busiest South Pennine trains from Sheffield to Manchester are both missing, the 7.05 and 8.06. Long gone are the days when users demanded, and got, 6 cars when all couldn't get on 3.

Northern's 3 car 7.10, EMRs 2 car 7.28, Northern's 2 car 8.32 and EMR 's 2 car 8.41 will have had to cover. Northern's take an extra 20-25 minutes. EMR are always very well filled even when TPE run. Today those services will not have provided quality journeys.

No wonder working from home is becoming firmly entrenched. Many wanting to go to Manchester Airport by car or taxi have discovered the A555 bypass to avoid Stockport rather than using trains.

Whatever the causes the public hasn't the patience to listen. The railway isnt working. The less it does the more it will be avoided.

 

[mike57]

Clearly they can't magically restore all their services immediately so introducing a timetable they'd hope to be able to provide must be better than what we've been seeing lately.

I agree, any timetable needs to be robust and deliverable. You can work round a reduced service as long as it runs barring major 'external' disruption (e.g. weather).

One thing I do not understand is why given that in theory TPE have enough units to run the pre covid timetable there are still 3 car units timetabled to run between the Airport and York and beyond. Current off peak service is roughly 50% of the 2019 timetable.

I had to visit the NW again yesterday, I was lucky, both journeys were OK, but yet again the loading on the Airport - York service is much higher than the Liverpool - York. I travelled back on the 17:49 from Vic (ex Liverpool) and it was probably 50% full, maybe a bit more. The ex Airport services are much more loaded even when 6 cars.

 

[nr758123]

Maybe it would be helpful to read TPE's full explanation to Stakeholders rather than a newspaper's summary.

One thing which appears in the press reports but not in the explanation to stakeholders is a quote from TPE's service planning and performance director.

“In normal circumstances, we have enough people to fully operate our scheduled timetable”

This comes as bit of a surprise, given that the last time TPE were able to fully operate their scheduled timetable on a consistent basis was more than 9 months ago.

 

[CAF397]

I'm reading "normal" as no extra sickness due to a pandemic, and a rest day working agreement that facilitates training, with the extra benefit of covering the train plan.

 

[800001]

So your argument is because there's the 216/219 buses TPE don't need to make an effort. No doubt you'll use the same argument with the 21/X21 buses for Chester-le-Street.

And then some wonder why people are giving up on the railway...


What I struggle to understand is that if both crew and units were available why TPE didn't run Newcastle - York shuttles. All good and well them advertising ticket acceptance with XC but it isn't much use for those who have to use Chester-le-Street.

From my own enquiries I understand that TPE did not request any other TOC to put in SSOs at Chester-le-Street yesterday. Trying to get alternative transport arranged via Twitter (which is what I usually have to do when they cancell trains at Chester-le-Street) got nowhere - at first they claimed the cancellations were because the line was closed, it was only when I pointed out to them that Chester-le-Street isn't anywhere near Stalybridge that they changed their story to the usual 'short notice change to the timetable' message. Their twitter team also tried saying it was LNER's responsibility to arrange taxis for TPE's cancelled trains! There can be no doubt that TPE breached their obligations regarding providing transport to/from Chester-le-Street yesterday.


TPE are frankly lucky to have any staff left by the sound of things! I feel sorry for all the front line staff who have to deal with all the angry passengers.



How ridiculous. The Marsden turnback isn't remotely comparable to Piccadilly. If Newcastle based LNER crews can sign P6 and P7 at York without having any booked work to them, TPE crews should be able to sign the turnback at Marsden without having booked work there.

Newcastle LNER crews have daily booked working from plat 6 at York, they work one or two or the York starters.

 

[td97]

It seems TransPennine have left York - Leeds - Manchester services almost entirely to Northern this morning. For TPE a 2.5 page list of pre-planned cancellations, plus extras on the day!

 

[londonmidland]

What’s with all the TPE cancellations but no reason given?

Looking at Leeds departures, several services cancelled throughout the day but no reason given as to why.

Are these all booked cancellations/alterations?

 

[CAF397]

Diverted via Calder Valley this weekend due to engineering works.

Lack of route learning means hardly any crews sign it so difficult to cover.

 

[DanNCL]

It’s the same situation as last weekend on TPE North with many cancellations on the Newcastle route, though not quite as many as last weekend, and those wishing to board any of the cancelled trains at Chester-le-Street are yet again not being offered any form of alternative transport. I’ve given up trying to get them to arrange alternative transport and got the bus instead.

An additional issue at Chester-le-Street possibly concerns disabled access. Previously the 802s were correctly announced as only the very front and very rear doors not opening, but often they’re now being advertised as front 3 coaches only, and some TPE guards have been enforcing this. As the wheelchair space is in the first class vehicle which often will be at the rear of the train, how are wheelchair users supposed to be able to board/leave at Chester-le-Street?

 

[Fokx]

An additional issue at Chester-le-Street I’ve become aware of concerns the equalities act. Previously the 802s were correctly announced as only the very front and very rear doors not opening, but often they’re now being advertised as front 3 coaches only, and some TPE guards have been enforcing this. As the wheelchair space is in the first class vehicle which often will be at the rear of the train, how are wheelchair users supposed to be able to board/leave at Chester-le-Street?

It’s not in the control of the guard which doors open, they only close them on the 802’s. So if they’re enforcing it, it’s merely because that’s what’s been opening for them.

They’re overcarried to a station where step free access is available and either send back, or given alternate transport. Just like Lea Green, Newton Le Willows, Brighouse and anywhere else they can’t be fully accommodated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2022 ==

Diverted via Calder Valley this weekend due to engineering works.

Lack of route learning means hardly any crews sign it so difficult to cover.

I’d add to that poor planning and rostering agreements in times of engineering work.

There were several crews today sat spare or covering ‘core’ jobs without diversions. So what you had was drivers and guards who were diversion trained running services such as the Leeds local stopping service, and train crews that didn’t sign Calder Valley allocated to Calder Valley diversionary services because amended turns were used instead of all staff reverting to spare and diagramed accordingly.

 

[DanNCL]

It’s not in the control of the guard which doors open, they only close them on the 802’s. So if they’re enforcing it, it’s merely because that’s what’s been opening for them.

All doors open apart from the very front and very rear doors. So if the guard has no control over which doors open, why on earth are any guards making people travel only in the front 3 coaches for Chester-le-Street, and why is it being announced as such at other stations by the auto announcer? This is a relatively new issue, previously there were no short platform announcements at stations for Chester-le-Street and there never used to be an issue alighting from the fourth carriage or front of the fifth carriage.

They’re overcarried to a station where step free access is available and either send back, or given alternate transport. Just like Lea Green, Newton Le Willows, Brighouse and anywhere else they can’t be fully accommodated.

Step free access is advertised as being available at Chester-le-Street.

 

[Frankfurt]

An additional issue at Chester-le-Street I’ve become aware of concerns the equalities act. Previously the 802s were correctly announced as only the very front and very rear doors not opening, but often they’re now being advertised as front 3 coaches only, and some TPE guards have been enforcing this. As the wheelchair space is in the first class vehicle which often will be at the rear of the train, how are wheelchair users supposed to be able to board/leave at Chester-le-Street?

Although I've heard announcements at certain stations state to board front 3 coaches only it's incorrect.

Wheelchair users can always board or alight at Chester le street with the aid of a ramp. Only 1 door at either end of train isn't accommodated, 1 of which is a crew only door anyway.

 

[DanNCL]

Although I've heard announcements at certain stations state to board front 3 coaches only it's incorrect.

Wheelchair users can always board or alight at Chester le street with the aid of a ramp. Only 1 door at either end of train isn't accommodated, 1 of which is a crew only door anyway.

Indeed and the announcements themselves are simply an inconvenience. It's guards trying to force people for Chester-le-Street to travel in the front three coaches that's the issue, as it means when the wheelchair space is at the rear it can't be accessed at Chester-le-Street. On multiple occasions recently when travelling in the fourth coach I've been instructed by the guard to move forward to the third coach to alight. The guards should all know which doors will and won't open so shouldn't be stopping people for Chester-le-Street from using the rear two coaches.

 

[Frankfurt]

Indeed and the announcements themselves are simply an inconvenience. It's guards trying to force people for Chester-le-Street to travel in the front three coaches that's the issue, as it means when the wheelchair space is at the rear it can't be accessed at Chester-le-Street. On multiple occasions recently when travelling in the fourth coach I've been instructed by the guard to move forward to the third coach to alight. The guards should all know which doors will and won't open so shouldn't be stopping people for Chester-le-Street from using the rear two coaches.

The guards working the trains sign the route, they know which doors are accommodated and which aren't. It's certainly not standard practice for them to move or "force" passengers to front first three coaches. Therefore I'm going to take your complaints with a pinch of salt.

 

[DanNCL]

The guards working the trains sign the route, they know which doors are accommodated and which aren't. It's certainly not standard practice for them to move or "force" passengers to front first three coaches. Therefore I'm going to take your complaints with a pinch of salt.

Feel free that's your choice. It has happened to me on multiple occasions recently. Maybe I'm just being unlucky.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2022 ==

If stopping Chester-le-Street passengers from using the rear two coaches on an 802 isn't TPE policy then I'll document any further occasions it may happen and report them.

 

[43066]

Indeed and the announcements themselves are simply an inconvenience. It's guards trying to force people for Chester-le-Street to travel in the front three coaches that's the issue, as it means when the wheelchair space is at the rear it can't be accessed at Chester-le-Street. On multiple occasions recently when travelling in the fourth coach I've been instructed by the guard to move forward to the third coach to alight. The guards should all know which doors will and won't open so shouldn't be stopping people for Chester-le-Street from using the rear two coaches.

There will likely be a perfectly good operational reason why. I remain unsure why you seem to feel the need to criticise every last aspect of railway operations and make wild accusations!

Step free access is available at Chester-le-Street and the 802s were introduced after both the Equalities Act and PRM-TSI so that wouldn't policy wouldn't last if anyone were to take the matter to court.

I’d suggest that’s not a safe statement. The duty under the Equalities Act is to make reasonable adjustments, it’s not absolute.

 

[Frankfurt]

Feel free that's your choice. It has happened to me on multiple occasions recently. Maybe I'm just being unlucky.

Or lucky, the fact that those trains have actually been running

 

[DanNCL]

There will likely be a perfectly good operational reason why. I remain unsure why you seem to feel the need to criticise every last aspect of railway operations and make wild accusations!

A perfectly good operational reason that magically didn’t exist three months ago with the same trains at the same platforms?

And on your point about ‘wild accusations’, I state what I see. If that’s good I will say so and given the criticism I’ve had lately for being critical I’ll be making more of an effort to mention positives when they happen. But I’ll also say what I see if it’s bad, and sadly with TPE it’s usually the latter.

I’d suggest that’s not a safe statement. The duty under the Equalities Act is to make reasonable adjustments, it’s not absolute.

Considering there was no issue before, I fail to see how they would be able to suddenly say there aren’t able to make reasonable adjustments, but nonetheless I’ve edited my post to remove reference to the equalities act.

Or lucky, the fact that those trains have actually been running

Very good point!

 

[Fokx]

All doors open apart from the very front and very rear doors. So if the guard has no control over which doors open, why on earth are any guards making people travel only in the front 3 coaches for Chester-le-Street, and why is it being announced as such at other stations by the auto announcer? This is a relatively new issue, previously there were no short platform announcements at stations for Chester-le-Street and there never used to be an issue alighting from the fourth carriage or front of the fifth carriage.

I don’t sign the Newcastle route so can’t advise. However, the auto-announcements aren’t set up by the conductor and are programmed by Hitatchi. It may simply be that the company instruction for the operation of 802’s has changed or there’s been an incident recently, but I can’t speculate as it’s beyond my route knowledge.

Step free access is available at Chester-le-Street and the 802s were introduced after both the Equalities Act and PRM-TSI so that wouldn't policy wouldn't last if anyone were to take the matter to court.

I’m aware of that but again it’s the same issue on the West side too at Lea Green and Newton. It’s a design flaw of the IET’s in general, and the MK5’s suffer from the same issue.

In extreme circumstances (and with permission from control), Guards can use the emergency door release if required to act as a local door but the ramp must be able to be deployed safely, flat, and not with obstruction

If a passenger who requires a ramp is unable to board or alight safely, alternate transport will be provided at expense to the company.

 

[DanNCL]

I don’t sign the Newcastle route so can’t advise. However, the auto-announcements aren’t set up by the conductor and are programmed by Hitatchi. It may simply be that the company instruction for the operation of 802’s has changed or there’s been an incident recently, but I can’t speculate as it’s beyond my route knowledge.

The auto announcenents on the train are fine, it's the station announcements, both at TPE managed stations and LNER managed stations, that say front three coaches. On the occasions where I've been moved by a guard to the front three coaches they have made a manual announcement and then walked through the train telling people in coaches 4 and 5 to move forwards.

I’m aware of that but again it’s the same issue on the West side too at Lea Green and Newton. It’s a design flaw of the IET’s in general, and the MK5’s suffer from the same issue.

In extreme circumstances (and with permission from control), Guards can use the emergency door release if required to act as a local door but the ramp must be able to be deployed safely, flat, and not with obstruction

If a passenger who requires a ramp is unable to board or alight safely, alternate transport will be provided at expense to the company.

It's good to know there is a procedure in place. The door for the wheelchair space wouldn't be anywhere that the ramp couldn't be deployed safely at Chester-le-Street unless the train had overshot or stopped short by around 10 metres.

 

[yorkie]

I am on a TPE train calling at Brighouse; everyone is wedged into the front few coaches of course.

The screens say front 5 coaches for Brighouse but the Guard said front 4 only. No mention of the discrepancy. Which is it?

Also can TPE Guards issue Penalty Fares for being on a Northern Only ticket? This guard is making threats to do this, but I suspect (and certainly hope) they do not have the power to do this.

 

[trainophile]

Why would a holder of a Northern Only ticket be on a TPE train? Have there been cancellations?

 

[Fokx]

The screens say front 5 coaches for Brighouse but the Guard said front 4 only. No mention of the discrepancy. Which is it?

4 towards Leeds
5 towards Manchester*

Front 4 is guaranteed at all stations so it’s easier for the guard to say/remember this on a route most staff usually don’t call at

(*so long as the driver stops in the correct stopping position and can differ depending on which end of the 185 is leading because the C-asdo beacons are located differently on the DMS and the DMCL)