Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[transmanche]

The trains have been delivered and are performing well

No they are not.

I have suffered many delays from cancelled services where something has gone wrong with these unreliable things.

Has any rolling stock introduction gone smoothly with 100% reliability from day one?

Class 458. At first, they were so unreliable that SWT was going to return them to the RoSCo. Later on, they were the first units to achieve over 100,000 miles per failure.

 

[GoatSarah]

Just got to Kings Cross, expecting to get home to Cambridge.

It’s gonna take me 2 1/2 hours.

What the **** is this ****?

 

[GoatSarah]

This sums up the hatred of some posters here. It's not clear whether they want to see a better train service or see a particular TOC punished. The two are neither mutually exclusive or dependent.

I just want to get home before tomorrow.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I just want to get home before tomorrow.

unfortunately tomorrow is very much like a Thameslink train... it never comes

 

[Steve Harris]

unfortunately tomorrow is very much like a Thameslink train... it never comes

You forgot to add, it's first delayed, delayed, delayed, delayed........cancelled!!!

 

[Class465fan]

You forgot to add, it's first delayed, delayed, delayed, delayed........cancelled!!!

and that little excuse they tell everyone after they announced the cancellation of the service.... well you know, "operational incident"

 

[bramling]

This sums up the hatred of some posters here. It's not clear whether they want to see a better train service or see a particular TOC punished. The two are neither mutually exclusive or dependent.

This forum is pretty measured and reasoned. For real hatred you could visit a GN station, or join the GTR twitter team.

Nonetheless, it’s hardly unreasonable to be negative about the whole thing. It’s a complete and utter shambles, worse than even the most negative of us predicted.

For something which offers me zero benefit to my own journey, and something which doesn’t maximise capacity as much as it could and should, I think it’s quite reasonable to be furious. A perfectly good, reliable, well regarded and quality rail service has been trashed for no good reason, by a bunch of idiots who didn’t and don’t know what they’re doing.

I would like to see the back of GTR sooner rather than later, and furthermore I’d like to see the back of the whole TSGN franchise. However I recognise that this brings its own issues with what happens next. At the very least there needs to be a new management team who can get a grip on certain issues, a grip which the Horton team have simply failed to have. But there also needs to be a draining of the swamp at DFT level too if lessons are to be learned, along with a recognition that the Thameslink Programme in its current form is simply unfit for purpose.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Nonetheless, it’s hardly unreasonable to be negative about the whole thing. It’s a complete and utter shambles, worse than even the most negative of us predicted.

Careful... with remarks like that GoVia will be claiming they're exceeding expectations!

 

[Failed Unit]

Just a challenge for the GTR apologists that think that changing the management won’t achieve anything. Did Connex improve after Horton and Co were kicked out and it went to the operator of last resort? Don’t know myself as I didn’t use them.

East coast improved after the removal of national express.

Yes east coast is a more simple franchise. But considering how bad things are if it goes to the operator of last resort it can’t get worse. At least we will have some accountability which we don’t have now.

 

[bramling]

Just a challenge for the GTR apologists that think that changing the management won’t achieve anything. Did Connex improve after Horton and Co were kicked out and it went to the operator of last resort? Don’t know myself as I didn’t use them.

East coast improved after the removal of national express.

Yes east coast is a more simple franchise. But considering how bad things are if it goes to the operator of last resort it can’t get worse. At least we will have some accountability which we don’t have now.

At the end of the day there comes a point when it needs to be accepted that the franchise just isn’t delivering what it should.

Unfortunately this whole affair is characterised by a few bad horses having been backed.

At least if it goes to some brand of DFT Rail there can be absolutely no doubt who is to blame, even if Grayling still tries to blame Network Rail!

I’m not sure stripping them of the franchise ASAP is the best thing to do though. A more managed transition to a set of more manageable franchises is probably the way to go, along with a re-think of the Thameslink Programme. There’s things which can be done which don’t waste all the investment, and actually uplift capacity. Thameslink Programme has spent a lot of money to leave a lot of 8-car trains running around.

 

[Failed Unit]

I've had a look through the twitter feed etc. The timetable from the 15th has been described as 'amended', 'interim' and intended to provide a 'more consistent and reliable' service. I certainly can't see that they've claimed it will be perfect. I can't even see where they've said it will be 'stable'. There have also been lots of posts saying to expect disruption on the 15th itself.

How far back did you go. They changed their tune last week. But certainly for most of July that is what they were saying. I guess the change of tone is an admission they can’t deliver a reliable timetable.

 

[Aictos]

Just a challenge for the GTR apologists that think that changing the management won’t achieve anything. Did Connex improve after Horton and Co were kicked out and it went to the operator of last resort? Don’t know myself as I didn’t use them.

East coast improved after the removal of national express.

Yes east coast is a more simple franchise. But considering how bad things are if it goes to the operator of last resort it can’t get worse. At least we will have some accountability which we don’t have now.

Only issue there if Govia lose the GTR concession and it gets taken over by the DfT's Operator of Last Resort behind the scenes the same people are still pulling the strings ie the DfT.

As to trying to compare Connex of course when the then SRA took over Connex South Eastern, Passenger satisfaction did increase however as above regardless of who could take over from Govia, it's still the DfT who pull the strings and what they say go so far from being a GTR apologist, I'm just being realistic and we won't see any improvement until we clear out the deadwood from the DfT and that starts with Grayling and Wilkinson.

For example when there was the dispute between GTR, DfT and the Unions over the doors, GTR and the Unions nearly came close to agreement but the DfT rejected it.

As to trying to compare a InterCity operator to a Network South East Operator is like chalk and cheese or trying to compare Ryanair to British Airways they serve different markets so can't really be compared.

 

[Hadders]

DfT will have to been seen to be doing something if there isn't a rapid improvement (too many marginal constituencies affected by the shambles). They won't want to run it themselves so I suspect we'll see:

Great Northern Inners to TfL (positive spin - new trains, Oyster/Contactless to Stevenage, Overground has a good reputation)
Southern becomes a standalone franchise again (they were planning this anyway)
Thameslink Great Northern (i.e. basically the 'old' First Capital Connect to become a standalone franchise)
Maybe the Cambridge fasts/Kings Lynn services to go to LNER

 

[MikeWM]

So the last train to Cambridge from Kings Cross was at 2202, everything after that cancelled. The 'emergency' timetable that 'started' today has 5 later trains to Cambridge. Seems that it may have been nice to have run at least one of those so people could get home.

Once again I used GA to get me to London and back, who managed to run the usual two trains an hour, all day, as timetabled. It strikes me I'm giving GA quite a bit of praise of late for, err, running trains when they say they will. I guess it shows how low my expectations of GN have become that anything that works to an actual timetable looks really impressive by comparison

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

So the last train to Cambridge from Kings Cross was at 2202, everything after that cancelled. The 'emergency' timetable that 'started' today has 5 later trains to Cambridge. Seems that it may have been nice to have run at least one of those so people could get home.

Once again I used GA to get me to London and back, who managed to run the usual two trains an hour, all day, as timetabled. It strikes me I'm giving GA quite a bit of praise of late for, err, running trains when they say they will. I guess it shows how low my expectations of GN have become that anything that works to an actual timetable looks really impressive by comparison

I find it incomprehensible that the last service could be cancelled... as a controller in the bus industry I would be for the high jump if I allowed a last bus to be cancelled... even to the point that I'd be expected to go out and drive it myself if necessary...

 

[theironroad]

I find it incomprehensible that the last service could be cancelled... as a controller in the bus industry I would be for the high jump if I allowed a last bus to be cancelled... even to the point that I'd be expected to go out and drive it myself if necessary...

Generally there is a reluctance to cancel he very last train unless absolutely necessary as normally the TOC will have to furnish buses or taxis to get people home.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Generally there is a reluctance to cancel he very last train unless absolutely necessary as normally the TOC will have to furnish buses or taxis to get people home.

but not at Thameslink it seems...

 

[theironroad]

but not at Thameslink it seems...

Well there is someone on twitter who raised the issue with Thameslink and was told that station staff should be arranging alternative travel, so guess it is happening.

 

[OwenB]

5.55 HAT-KGX cancelled due to an operational incident... Cracking start for me. Good luck everyone..

 

[Failed Unit]

5.55 HAT-KGX cancelled due to an operational incident... Cracking start for me. Good luck everyone..

I know the GTR apologists will say it is running as planned and they shouldn’t be judged on the first day, but seems business as usual on great northern. 50% cancellations on GN outers. In fact the inners are not good either.

But I know, Despite the promises GTR Didn’t expect improvements today.

 

[Stampy]

I was down Peterborough Station last night, and lots of angry passengers as the 2045 GTR service was delayed due to NOT having a driver.....

It finally left 26 minutes late.....

 

[MML]

Better start on the MML this morning. No noticeable cancellations so far. Looks like rostering was part of the problem after all.

Though they are still operating Bedford to Brighton services with 8 car units rather than 12.

 

[OwenB]

I know the GTR apologists will say it is running as planned and they shouldn’t be judged on the first day, but seems business as usual on great northern. 50% cancellations on GN outers. In fact the inners are not good either.

But I know, Despite the promises GTR Didn’t expect improvements today.

Yup, 5.43 HAT-MOG disappeared off screens after showing delayed.

 

[JonathanH]

Better start on the MML this morning. No noticeable cancellations so far. Looks like rostering was part of the problem after all.

Though they are still operating Bedford to Brighton services with 8 car units rather than 12.

For as long as part of the service involves Bedford Carriage Sidings there will need to be some 8-car units on certain Bedford to Brighton services and they need to get 8-car units to Three Bridges depot somehow as well.

 

[Hadders]

I have to say so far so good.

Even the 0732 from Stevenage which has not run at all since the timetable change in May is running (with seats available, even in standard!)

 

[Failed Unit]

I have to say so far so good.

Even the 0732 from Stevenage which has not run at all since the timetable change in May is running (with seats available, even in standard!)

Shows how low expectations have fallen if this morning can be considered good.

Still lots of cancellations particularly on the Cambridge - London stopping services. Wonder how they blame network rail on this one?

 

[Downthelane]

Same total shambles at WGC and HAT. 2/3 next KGX services cancelled

 

[ictl]

All TLGN trains departing from Cambridge between 0725 and 0800 cancelled, except for the 0754 Cambridge-Brighton service (which I’m surprised that it actually ran!)

 

[Hadders]

I have to say so far so good.

Even the 0732 from Stevenage which has not run at all since the timetable change in May is running (with seats available, even in standard!)

I spoke too soon!

No relief driver at Finsbury Park so after a 10 minute wait we’re diverting to Kings Cross.

 

[mrmatt]

Better start on the MML this morning. No noticeable cancellations so far. Looks like rostering was part of the problem after all.

I've generally found the MML morning service to run reasonably well recently - it's the evenings that are the killer so I'll hold my judgement until I try to get home!