Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[mackenzie_blu]

Ok had it confirmed since I left a MOM turned up and it was indeed a cut poewer cable. Looks like the platform extension interferred with normal operations. The MOM was on site around 1400 and it seems the problem was not solved quickly. least the block means proper repairs can be carried out now.

Perhaps he meant services. In that respect, there are three services (net) that switch from 377 to 319 operation but two of the existing 377 services have been doubled in length.

I can see how the 377 mileage has still increased:

1T11+1T83 involve twice the mileage of 1T05+2W16 (two units replace one); 1T12+2T39 also involve twice the mileage (an extra unit); 1T43 involves twice the mileage of 1T39 (two units replace one).

As for the rest, 1T46 and 1T48 involve about twice the mileage of 2B60 and 2B49 (longer trips). In effect the only net losses are 2A04, 2G39 and 2T66.

Therefore FCC have added the rough equivalent of 2 return Bedford-Brighton trips - a small amount over 400 miles. While comparing your May 09/Oct 09 diagrams I could only get roughly 500 miles (the newer BO605 involves fewer not more miles) until I realised that your May 09 BO605 mileage was just over 100 miles below the correct figure.

Colour Key: BDM<->BTN; LBG<->BTN; BDM<->STP

Thats a good point. Ive just had a detailed look at the milage of the fleet.

Old diagrams

Monday - Thursday 7388.12m
Fridays 7491.02m

New diagrams

Monday - Thursday 7895.82m
Friday 7998.72m

Difference

Monday - Thursday 500.7m
Friday 507.7m

With the last failure rate given last month of 6,000 MPC, we see how often the 377 are breaking down!

 

[Edvid]

WIth regard to MPC, Period 7 is either finished or will finish this week so their performance up till now will be published as part of the official annual MPC stats in Modern Railways come late December.

Anyway I digress. The £59 million contract for the Borough Market viaduct has been awarded to Skanska.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Another 377 is being deliveried tonight Im told. On that subject, they're a message on UKmodernEMU stating 377503 is delayed until January. Will try and find out why. At a guess it could be the unit was robbed of parts to complete other units. This would only 514/515/522/523 are coming in the next 6 weeks.

A 12 car 377/5 entered the Core on saturday. Units 377507/520/516 entered testing the voltage on the 3rd rail with a 12 car 377. At no point was the pan tested as has been suggested. The units then spilt "in the Smithfield's area" and ran back into City Thameslink as a 8 and four car.

WIth regard to MPC, Period 7 is either finished or will finish this week so their performance up till now will be published as part of the official annual MPC stats in Modern Railways come late December.

Anyway I digress. The £59 million contract for the Borough Market viaduct has been awarded to Skanska.

Im looking forward to the MR performance tables and comparing the 377 on FCC to Southern's and SET 375's.

**UPDATE**

377518/519 are going to Cauldwell tomorrow. FCC will have 21 377 units once these arrive.

This is from Richard at UKmodernEMU

"5Z18

10+30 Selhurst Depot to Bedford C.S. via Luton (Reverse) Cricklewood sidings (Reverse - 50 min layover) - Bedford.

Some test equipment is being used on these runs, hence the reversals."

Also 377514 is currently working its way to Selhurst as 377/5 number 19.

 

[Class377]

Yeah, I understand they're doing more mileage, just less services I thought

Do you know if weekend services have started now the changeover has happened?

 

[Edvid]

377 services are still limited to weekdays, and considering their current performance it's just as well - for how long were yesterday's 1E65 (ex-Rochester) units buggering around in Farringdon? Certain northbound services were delayed by 40+ minutes from what I heard (thankfully I was travelling in the other direction at the time). :roll:

On the other hand, the addition of another 2 377/5s in service is good news, along with the fact that we now have 5 spares (including the 377/2s admittedly).

And why is the temporary platform 4 extension at Blackfriars so narrow?

 

[westcoaster]

377 services are still limited to weekdays, and considering their current performance it's just as well - for how long were yesterday's 1E65 (ex-Rochester) units buggering around in Farringdon? Certain northbound services were delayed by 40+ minutes from what I heard (thankfully I was travelling in the other direction at the time). :roll:

you were lucky just as things started to get better and delays started to clear a 319 failed between city tlk and blackfriars stopping the job for 40 mins.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

And why is the temporary platform 4 extension at Blackfriars so narrow?

Its not actually that narrow compared to the current platform tho the yellow lines appears to be in the wrong place. Note also passenger numbers through Blackfriars has nose dived at the moment so they really don't expect anything but a futher drop once you have to walk even futher. Plus the lack of ANY weather protection on platform 5 may see what few customers we have be reduced. Certainly gonna be fun when it starts raining as you have no protection.

 

[asylumxl]

It is fun take it from me, a regular user of Blackfriars (3 years now almost daily). Ah well. All in the name of progress.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

It is fun take it from me, a regular user of Blackfriars (3 years now almost daily). Ah well. All in the name of progress.

Well to be fair they have tried everything to go City and next year everyone is going to have to. Well I say next year, the slew could still happen in January 2011.

 

[asylumxl]

Not 377 related, but a 319 (7 24 Luton to Brighton) was short formed today. Due to a smashed windscreen apparently?

Standing room only from Leagrave. I did manage to get a seat though.

Takes the pee eye es es a bit though, 4 carriage train for a busy peak service.

 

[jon0844]

If the train was taken out for something like that, you'll have to take your anger out on the person(s) that broke the windscreen, not the TOC (unless it was something they did). What can they do?

I saw a 319 at Hornsey this morning, so perhaps this was it?

 

[asylumxl]

If the train was taken out for something like that, you'll have to take your anger out on the person(s) that broke the windscreen, not the TOC (unless it was something they did). What can they do?

I saw a 319 at Hornsey this morning, so perhaps this was it?

Do not take this offensively, but where did I blame FCC?

I'm well aware arranging and coupling a replacement is not a quick act.

 

[jon0844]

So why did you say this;

Takes the pee eye es es a bit though, 4 carriage train for a busy peak service

then?

If you admit there's nothing they could have done, you either accepted the crush or waited for the next train. There was no other option.

Usually in these types of situation, people just accept it and get on with it.

 

[Aictos]

So why did you say this;



then?

If you admit there's nothing they could have done, you either accepted the crush or waited for the next train. There was no other option.

Usually in these types of situation, people just accept it and get on with it.

Thank you, there is only so many units available in service at any one time, units that you might see stabled idle at Hornsey, Caudwell might be there for maintenance, cleaning etc...

It takes time to get step up the service and get a replacement if there is one available.

Not so long ago, I had a 6 car Class 313 service leave Hertford North 5 late after suffering from door interlock problems - got to Moorgate 13 late as a result but because it was the middle of the peak, it had to keep running in service picking up delays of 10+ minutes on all workings until later on in the day after the peak had finished to come out of service and run to Hornsey for fitter's attention with a replacement set of 6 car Class 313s coming up from Hornsey to cover the failed Class 313's workings.

 

[asylumxl]

So why did you say this;



then?

If you admit there's nothing they could have done, you either accepted the crush or waited for the next train. There was no other option.

Usually in these types of situation, people just accept it and get on with it.

Why are you making an argument where there isn't a need for one?

It takes the p*ss cos some d*ckhead decided to smash the windscreen of a peak train reducing it to half the carriages.

There is no mention of First Capital Connect whatsoever or any criticism so don't read into things that aren't there please.

Thank you, there is only so many units available in service at any one time, units that you might see stabled idle at Hornsey, Caudwell might be there for maintenance, cleaning etc...

It takes time to get step up the service and get a replacement if there is one available.

That's what I said. I didn't blame FCC anywhere.

Do not take this offensively, but where did I blame FCC?

I'm well aware arranging and coupling a replacement is not a quick act.

So please, let's not continue this pointless argument.

 

[jon0844]

Okay, I don't want to drag this on - but why would you slag off the fact there's a 4-car service when it was clearly not the fault of the TOC.

You didn't say 'thanks to the person who smashed the windscreen, I was forced to endure crush loading on a half length train', so anyone with an ounce of intelligence will surmise that you were p**sed off with the fact the train was split in half and you had to squeeze in.

Please, before I shut up, explain how it took the p**s running a 4-car service? What do you suggest should have happened then?

 

[A60K]

Why are you making an argument where there isn't a need for one?

It takes the p*ss cos some d*ckhead decided to smash the windscreen of a peak train reducing it to half the carriages.

There is no mention of First Capital Connect whatsoever or any criticism so don't read into things that aren't there please.



That's what I said. I didn't blame FCC anywhere.



So please, let's not continue this pointless argument.

The way I read it you were putting the blame on FCC. Rather than say 'let's not continue this pointless argument' just accept that you worded your post badly and/or that you were putting the blame on FCC without good reason. That would be the way to end the argument properly and move on.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

I other news 5T00 ran in the Core overnight. Unit 377509 (north end) with 377510 and 377520 on 12 car testing again. The testing is going well and will continue up to Christmas.

John from Thameslink group answered a question about 377514. Not good reading tho.

7514 being a bit of troublesome unit so far. Failed at Norbury on 15-10-09 on 5Z30 to Milton Keynes (coupled to 7204) and went back to Selhurst so not been onto 'AC' yet.

Then failed at Tonbridge in early hours of 16-10-09 so 5Z72 00+12 Tonbridge - Redhill - Tonbridge got diverted to Selhurst depot. Then failed again at Tonbridge 18-10-09 so 5Z71 22+00 Tonbridge - Redhill got extended to Selhurst depot.

Booked out last night on 5Z30 21+30 to Milton Keynes, but this train was cancelled before leaving the depot due to defects.

 

[asylumxl]

I already made it clear I wasn't blaming FCC.

It seems rather pedantic to crticise the wording, then yes I apologise for not making it clear as to whom was taking the p*ss in the situation.

On the topic of 377s, there has been a lot failures recently. What puzzles me is, have the dual voltage 378s experienced similar failures yet?

 

[A60K]

On the topic of 377s, there has been a lot failures recently. What puzzles me is, have the dual voltage 378s experienced similar failures yet?

They don't seem to - I've had around a dozen trips on the NLL/WLL with voltage changeovers and all have gone pretty smoothly. I know that's not a huge number, but if there was a recurring problem then the Overground would quickly decend into chaos.

 

[asylumxl]

I didn't think so. That seems rather strange to me. Perhaps the smaller order has allowed them more time for quality control?

 

[Pumbaa]

I didn't think so. That seems rather strange to me. Perhaps the smaller order has allowed them more time for quality control?

Smaller order? 23 cl377s for Thameslink vs 57 cl378s for LO?

 

[asylumxl]

Smaller order? 23 cl377s for Thameslink vs 57 cl378s for LO?

Sorry, what I meant is less have been delivered. They appear to be being built slower.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Point out that the Overground had issues during driver training where a few units did break down. FCC on the other hand had no time to test the units on the network bar delivering them. Thats part of the original reason tho various parts of the network have caused issues, St Pancras and Farringdon being the worst.

Bombardier have taken more steps lately to get the 377/5 MPC up, so we can only wait and see what happens.

There hasn't really been much different in the failure rates of the 377's on TL. Just more units means we see more failures. On average we should see atleast one 377 failure a day.

 

[Minstral25]

Don't know what happens with the 377/5's in the core because I don't get on them to London Bridge going south, but I have watched the 378's at Dalston a lot and they seem to change effortlessly with one small proviso - the route indicators always go blank and then reset to "Welcome to London Overground" - pretty minor fault. Seems from a user point of view that 2 out of 3 trains are 378's now - I travel daily Dalston to Highbury and got on my first 313 for two weeks tonight. Made a nice change not to stand!!!

 

[jon0844]

The 377s don't say 'welcome to...' when they restart but rather 'Electrostar' which seems a bit odd. Does Joe Public really want to read this and understand the significance of it?

(I apologise if this has been changed, as I've not been on the TL route for many months since we moved offices to Old Street)

 

[Minstral25]

I can confirm Southern 377/4's flash up "Electrostar" when rebooting. Was on the 18:19 Victoria to Tonbridge/Horsham when the Driver had to "reboot" - took about 15 to 20 minutes as well with all the lights going out.

That was not pleasent either as we were all standing wedged together as always, locked in the unit, doors shut and no air conditioning. Nice to see a couple of empty Brightion Gatwick expresses leave while we waited as well.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

The 377s don't say 'welcome to...' when they restart but rather 'Electrostar' which seems a bit odd. Does Joe Public really want to read this and understand the significance of it?

(I apologise if this has been changed, as I've not been on the TL route for many months since we moved offices to Old Street)

The 377/2 & 377/5 on FCC both state Electrostar after a reboot. This is because the train has reset. They could set the train up to show station but I bet Joe Public doesn't give a damm when that will further delay the train. FCC customers are not as fussy about train CIS as they aren't that used to it so won't miss it as much. Im not 100% sure how long a set up of a 377 is but it would be enough to incur fines for late running atleast for that service never mind whats behind it.

 

[jon0844]

I'd have thought that simply changing the display to say nothing, or the name of the TOC, would be better. I know what it means, but it must confuse at the very least a small number of people when a southbound train comes in to Blackfriars and says 'Electrostar' on the side (as it did when I first saw a 377 many months ago).

If the 378s don't do this, then I guess someone realised that it isn't really customer-friendly. 365s say 'BRB Class 465', but don't need to be rebooted very often at all.

 

[MCR247]

Well they PIS stay on when desiros reset/change from ac/dc
Why cant they on electrostars?