Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[Aictos]

Well they PIS stay on when desiros reset/change from ac/dc
Why cant they on electrostars?

I must be stating the obvious but they are two different designs from two rival companies but I do see your point.

 

[Pumbaa]

Yeah - the 377/2s do that as well, and you have "Electrostar" staring you in the face for 10 mins until you approach Wembley etc.

 

[class377man]

Kind of related so I'll ask here; are Imperial Wharf, Berkhamsted and Bletchley on the 377/2 PIS systems yet?

 

[Pumbaa]

Berko + Bletchley are, don't know about Imperial Wharf.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

I'd have thought that simply changing the display to say nothing, or the name of the TOC, would be better. I know what it means, but it must confuse at the very least a small number of people when a southbound train comes in to Blackfriars and says 'Electrostar' on the side (as it did when I first saw a 377 many months ago).

If the 378s don't do this, then I guess someone realised that it isn't really customer-friendly. 365s say 'BRB Class 465', but don't need to be rebooted very often at all.

Its not a simple matter of just hitting a button but the process is long enough that it would affect other services. Bare in mind that being reset will affect other services so FCC instruct the trains gets on the move and stop blocking the core rather than have the train fully set up.

To be honest most customers wouldn't be confused as its a train and they just board no matter where its going if they think/expect it to be there train. Most people on this forum would be confused of course because they have a general idea that a 377 in a FCC station is unusual until a eariler this year. General public don't notice that much (For example the air con in the 377 was hardly noticed by the regular commuters I spoke to).

Not the 466/465 used to display "ANGEL NETWORKER" last year. Have a video of one scrolling that at Blackfriars.

Also just to let everyone know 377515 reached Selhurst last night. Thats leaves 377522/523/503 yet to come.

 

[jon0844]

The screens on the side of a 377 are supposed to show the destination, so if it comes in saying 'Electrostar' then you're right that it doesn't mean anything, but passengers no longer have any benefit from that screen.

I accept its early days, and presumably after the power switch at Farringdon, there's no logical reason why it still says Electrostar by the time it gets to Blackfriars. I don't know what normally happens, so maybe it was a one off.

It's certainly not the biggest issue anyone has to deal with, but it would be nice to be able to fix it - or just have the screens turned off to remove any confusion at all. It isn't a train exhibition - ordinary Joe Public don't need to see messages like 'BRB class..', 'Electrostar', 'Angel..', 'Rebooting...', 'Insert disc', 'Write welcome text here'

 

[mackenzie_blu]

The screens on the side of a 377 are supposed to show the destination, so if it comes in saying 'Electrostar' then you're right that it doesn't mean anything, but passengers no longer have any benefit from that screen.

I accept its early days, and presumably after the power switch at Farringdon, there's no logical reason why it still says Electrostar by the time it gets to Blackfriars. I don't know what normally happens, so maybe it was a one off.

The logical reason is time. Delaying the train futher is not something that FCC wants hence the lack of CIS. By the time the units re-set you've already lost upto 10mins. Spending more time setting up the CIS will cause futher delays. In the Core, a delay for 3mins can last for hours on the peaks and cause knock on effects which in turn will be lost money.

And passengers generally look at the CIS of a train platform then turn around and ask staff is it going to London Bridge etc etc when they've just read it on a train. Granted a regular commuter wouldn't have this problem but he wouldn't benefit from a CIS screen as they already know the times of their trains and its calling patterns. To be honest tho the CIS system set up is a problem on a regular basis. This morniongs 0541 City departure to Brighton decided to remove London Bridge and East Croydon from its calling pattern causing problems. But until they fix the problem of the doors at St Pancras then then minor CIs faults will remain tho Ive been told by the MD they are working on improved CIS set up.

 

[jon0844]

Sorry for crossing wires here.. I realise now what you mean about the delay to get the CIS back up and running; which is perfectly valid. Obviously you don't delay a train to get the screens working.

But, you can probably guess what I'm going to say next, can't you? Why the hell does the system take 10 minutes to reset properly and how was it ever allowed to be designed to be like this?!!

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Sorry for crossing wires here.. I realise now what you mean about the delay to get the CIS back up and running; which is perfectly valid. Obviously you don't delay a train to get the screens working.

But, you can probably guess what I'm going to say next, can't you? Why the hell does the system take 10 minutes to reset properly and how was it ever allowed to be designed to be like this?!!

Thats a rather good point and the answer is, Bombardier. God knows why they developed the trains this way. Im not sure of the total time for a re-set (sure its under 10mins) but but the time the decision to re-set the unit means by the time the trains back up its gone ten minutes (atleast). There been times the trains frozen while re-setting or re-set not worked and its had to be re-set again!

 

[jon0844]

Maybe they should upgrade to Windows 7... for faster boot up times.

Then the screens will probably say 'No driver found' and never work at all...

 

[Edvid]

The platform 4 extension at Blackfriars should be open today (no core closure this time) - is it?

Also, why hasn't the planned new crossover north of SPILL appeared 2 weeks after it was due?

 

[westcoaster]

There is no longer going to be a cross over north of spill, instead the down moorgate will now become bi-directional from dock junction, all they have to do is install a fixed red at the southern end of the northbound plat, and a single yellow half way down kings cross tunnel.
It saves on the costs of installing a juction and the associated signalling changes.

 

[Edvid]

I see...well I suppose it could still be done in conjunction with the Canal Tunnels link in 2015. Thank goodness for the Clerkenwell Crossover.

 

[Richardr]

The platform 4 extension at Blackfriars should be open today (no core closure this time) - is it?

It certainly was this morning - my morning train stopped somewhat further doen the platform than previously it had.

 

[jon0844]

Tuesday, 27th October 2009, 16:06

Customer Alert
Train cancellations

We regret that a number of First Capital Connect trains will not run today due to a shortage of available staff.

Please click here to be redirected to the 'Live Updates' section of the site for details of affected services.

Any reason for the lack of staff? Swine-flu or impromptu strike/protest? Or simply bad rostering?

Is this a one-off or a sign of things to come (especially if it's flu related).

 

[Aictos]

It certainly was this morning - my morning train stopped somewhat further doen the platform than previously it had.

This is part of the ongoing works to Blackfriars, which is to allow Network Rail’s contractors, Balfour Beatty, to work on the bridge underneath the station.

 

[paul1609]

Any reason for the lack of staff? Swine-flu or impromptu strike/protest? Or simply bad rostering?

Is this a one-off or a sign of things to come (especially if it's flu related).

I'll answer as I dont work in the rail industry! Its as a result of Thameslink drivers refusing to work their rest days. This follows them being offered a 0% pay increase last week and it also happens that this week is half term holidays for their kids.

 

[Aictos]

Being offered a 0% pay increase is nuts, might as well turn round and say sorry, no pay rises this year which to me is exactly that!

 

[Class377]

Does anyone have any idea whether the services will be OK today and tomorrow? I'm planning on using 377s the next couple of days there and it's a bit frustrating that they might not be running.

 

[73110]

Drivers were offered 0% as stated above. This is a huge kick in the teeth because of all the hard work put in by everyone to get drivers trained up on 377's over the last year or so. They asked drivers to sign up for committed rest days where the driver had to work 10 rest days out of a potential twelve. Lots signed up for this, the company would have been in the brown stuff if they didn't and what thanks do they get for all the extra help, nothing at all. It is a huge insult.

Another gripe, the important one so-to-speak, is the amount of time these pay talks have been dragged out over. This is what is getting on peoples nerves the most, this pay deal should have been sorted out in April just gone, drivers are annoyed by the company dragging it's heels over this and are now paying for it.

As for this week some Brighton drivers will be working their rest days as rostered but from next week all depots will not be working any at all. Reason for all the cancellations the last two days are due to the Bedford drivers not turning in on their days off. This was arranged after a union meeting the other night at Bedford. The Brighton branch meeting will be next wed afternoon.

The next couple of weeks will be interesting indeed. In the summer in protest for something that happened to another driver, some drivers didn't work Sundays, stating they were having a bbq, this time around it will be drivers going 'Christmas shopping' on days off now.

It doesn't look good at all.

 

[The Box Photter]

Drivers were offered 0% as stated above. This is a huge kick in the teeth because of all the hard work put in by everyone to get drivers trained up on 377's over the last year or so. They asked drivers to sign up for committed rest days where the driver had to work 10 rest days out of a potential twelve. Lots signed up for this, the company would have been in the brown stuff if they didn't and what thanks do they get for all the extra help, nothing at all. It is a huge insult.

Another gripe, the important one so-to-speak, is the amount of time these pay talks have been dragged out over. This is what is getting on peoples nerves the most, this pay deal should have been sorted out in April just gone, drivers are annoyed by the company dragging it's heels over this and are now paying for it.

As for this week some Brighton drivers will be working their rest days as rostered but from next week all depots will not be working any at all. Reason for all the cancellations the last two days are due to the Bedford drivers not turning in on their days off. This was arranged after a union meeting the other night at Bedford. The Brighton branch meeting will be next wed afternoon.

The next couple of weeks will be interesting indeed. In the summer in protest for something that happened to another driver, some drivers didn't work Sundays, stating they were having a bbq, this time around it will be drivers going 'Christmas shopping' on days off now.

It doesn't look good at all.

I agree that it is an insult to staff to offer a 0% pay rise.

I suggest it is also an insult to season ticket holders to impose anything more than a 0% increase in annual season ticket prices at renewal given the recent fall in reliability of the service overall.

Franchises should not be awarded to TOCs that are reliant on goodwill of staff to work rest days in order to maintain a normal weekday service.

Might I suggest that where a train is cancelled due to staff on holiday/shopping/stocking up for the next b-b-q, all season ticket holders submit delay repay claims for an infinite delay. That should put WorstGroup out of business pretty fast and get the service renationalised.

 

[paul1609]

I think that the interesting thing is that First would be paying any drivers settlement out of their own profits as the first Capital Connect franchise is already on maximum cap and collar revenue support. Given that FCC will suffer a large revenue reduction if ticket prices are reduced in Jan in line with the RPI it looks to me as if FCC is in serious trouble.
Is it a co-incidence that senior managers are leaving for secure government jobs?

 

[asylumxl]

The RPI has fallen from 2008 to 2009. I remember being told that the increase in line with the RPI for companies (such as NX and FG) was drawn up late 2008. But if the RPI this year has fallen is it hardly surprising that the companies are refusing to give a pay increase? After all, the train operators are all about making maximum profit.

If normal commodities have decreased in price, then I imagine the companies think there is no need for a pay rise, as the fall in RPI will give the drivers an increase in expendable income that they would have got from the increase?

 

[73110]

The RPI has fallen from 2008 to 2009. I remember being told that the increase in line with the RPI for companies (such as NX and FG) was drawn up late 2008. But if the RPI this year has fallen is it hardly surprising that the companies are refusing to give a pay increase? After all, the train operators are all about making maximum profit.

If normal commodities have decreased in price, then I imagine the companies think there is no need for a pay rise, as the fall in RPI will give the drivers an increase in expendable income that they would have got from the increase?

You justifying it then?

First are making millions profit to this day

Pre-TAX profits at FirstGroup rose 31 per cent to £326.4million in the year to March 31.

The transport company said its UK bus arm had increased market share with operating profits up 9.8 per cent to £134m.

The US division made £2.7billion in revenues and delivered a spectacular 72.5 per cent profits jump to £294.6m at constant currency rates.

Rail profits slipped back to £94.2m as revenue growth stalled.

First has not been immune from the impact of the economic downturn and is cutting 1,100 jobs.

Chief executive Sir Moir Lockhead was confident about the year. He said: "While it is still early in the new financial year, overall the group has continued to trade well and broadly in line with expectations."

 

[asylumxl]

You justifying it then?

First are making millions profit to this day

Hardly. I'm just stating what I would imagine their reasoning is. I did say:

But if the RPI this year has fallen is it hardly surprising that the companies are refusing to give a pay increase? After all, the train operators are all about making maximum profit.

I know they're absolute profiteering b*stards . I use FCC 4 days out of 7.

 

[73110]

Hardly. I'm just stating what I would imagine their reasoning is. I did say:



I know they're absolute profiteering b*stards . I use FCC 4 days out of 7.

Sorry, I wasn't being arsey!! Just looked like that at first glance!!

 

[asylumxl]

Sorry, I wasn't being arsey!! Just looked like that at first glance!!

No problem. I'm not very good at making my replies clear it seems. Sorry.

 

[Edvid]

An update on the fixed-formation NXEMUs - Alstom are out of the running!

It's now Bombardier v. Siemens. While I'm at it, I read an article in The Railway Magazine (Nov 09 issue) which stated that the only bidder yet to reveal their model for the Thameslink fleet was Hitachi (obviously forgetting that they withdrew their bid months ago ).

 

[MCR247]

Why are alstom out of the running???? Bombardier should be and I hope they dont get it!

 

[jopsuk]

So it's going to be a next-gen Electrostar or Desiro then. Nothing revolutionary (like the Alstom).

I reckon Bomardier would be OK if they could sort their Quality (in the business-y, capitalised sense) problems out.