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TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

michael Bell

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26 May 2019
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14
Just driven back from work. My work is a Stagecoach Stockport are and I live in the Metroline area. I counted how many buses I could see painted yellow and I saw four (out of about 25 odd other buses) in my entire 10 mile journey (through Didsbury). There were a few Diamonds on school routes without any Bee Network sticker, one even had a brake light that was out. The only Stagecoach I saw that was yellow was on the 192. Do operators have a time limit to get all their fleet painted yellow?

Incidentally most of Stagecoach's stock apart from the brand new buses on the 192 seem to be really old, seen a few MX08's and other old oddities. Are Stagecoach suffering from fleet issues, do you have any more on order? It just seems they have had nearly a year to get things ready and their fleet looks like a random mess. Also looking at comments from the general public people seem to moaning about the Trafford Centre - Stockport services and blaming Metroline, when this is a Stagecoach service.
Interesting comment any MX08 reg buses are now Metroline and should have been cascaded too other Stagecoach fleets but have been hired by TFGM for use by Metroline till new stock arrives Stockport fleet is made up of Hybrid E400 61 and 62 regs 12 reg E400. 64 65 16 17 plate Enviro 400MMC 8 74 plate Streetdecks 50 74 plate Enviro City and 4 74 Plate single decks. If they had sorted out the new Electric depot it would have been a total yellow bee fleet so no Stagecoach have not got a problem with the fleet but most of the older stock would have been away from Manchester and probably have the newest fleet on the Bee Network. Also School buses are not supposed to be in the Yellow livery they are allowed to operate in the livery the operator chooses as they are not full time Bee buses and most are only for School pupils not fare paying adults.
 
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TheSmiths82

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29 Jun 2023
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Manchester
Interesting comment any MX08 reg buses are now Metroline and should have been cascaded too other Stagecoach fleets but have been hired by TFGM for use by Metroline till new stock arrives Stockport fleet is made up of Hybrid E400 61 and 62 regs 12 reg E400. 64 65 16 17 plate Enviro 400MMC 8 74 plate Streetdecks 50 74 plate Enviro City and 4 74 Plate single decks. If they had sorted out the new Electric depot it would have been a total yellow bee fleet so no Stagecoach have not got a problem with the fleet but most of the older stock would have been away from Manchester and probably have the newest fleet on the Bee Network. Also School buses are not supposed to be in the Yellow livery they are allowed to operate in the livery the operator chooses as they are not full time Bee buses and most are only for School pupils not fare paying adults.

That explains the school buses that don't have the stickers. I think part of the issue is Stagecoach seem to be putting on the new stuff on the 192, which makes the fleet look much older as soon as you leave the A6 corridor. I don't think I have seen anything newer than 12 years old on the 23 route apart from a 64 or 65 plate (I think it was one of the ex SC Wigan ones). Actually I know a lot of the Stockport single decker's are brand new too but I don't do much driving in those areas so perception is a lot of it.
 

michael Bell

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26 May 2019
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That explains the school buses that don't have the stickers. I think part of the issue is Stagecoach seem to be putting on the new stuff on the 192, which makes the fleet look much older as soon as you leave the A6 corridor. I don't think I have seen anything newer than 12 years old on the 23 route apart from a 64 or 65 plate (I think it was one of the ex SC Wigan ones). Actually I know a lot of the Stockport single decker's are brand new too but I don't do much driving in those areas so perception is a lot of it.
The new 74 plates are used on the 192 this will be a TFGM instruction to put new euro 6 on the 192 as this route was covered by the 20 plate MMC the first 20 odd are now at Queens Rd painted in Bee livery and the rest have left Manchester to other Stagecoach fleets from Scotland too the South Coast. How ever the 74 plate Streetdecks are on the 330 along with some 74 plate MMCs the 74 plates have also been used today on the 11.197,314,322,327,330 and 384 and when I was in Stockport last Saturday they were on many other services with some older stock on the 192. The oldest E400 are 59 plate only 4 then all the e400s and hybrids are 61/12/62 plate either in Beachball, Local or the Green Hybrid livery these have not been painted as they were not supposed to be staying and will probably be replaced as soon as they can sort the charging problem out.
 

toms

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14 Aug 2024
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Manchester
All depends who GNW are using for the work.
Stagecoach are using Birkenhead for the paint and Anston for the retrims. It makes total sense to paint first then retrim.

GNW used to use Thorntons who would do the repaint and retrim in one go.

The B7’s look great though to be fair and I certainly miss driving them.
I guess the only thing with Thorntons is that the bus is off the road for longer than going off for paint then retrim
 

Goldfish62

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14 Feb 2010
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I guess the only thing with Thorntons is that the bus is off the road for longer than going off for paint then retrim
Surely the opposite. While the bus is being repainted, the seat cushions and grabrails can be out for refurbishment.
 

Leyland Bus

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York
Surely the opposite. While the bus is being repainted, the seat cushions and grabrails can be out for refurbishment.
They are... the only ones that have the interior done alone are the ones already painted yellow that were done for "mobilisation".
 

toms

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14 Aug 2024
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Manchester
Surely the opposite. While the bus is being repainted, the seat cushions and grabrails can be out for refurbishment.
What I meant but did not get across was that whilst at thorntons everything is done at once so vehicle will come back in service after but with Stagecoach, vehicle is painted then returned to service and sent for retrim at later date
 

Goldfish62

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What I meant but did not get across was that whilst at thorntons everything is done at once so vehicle will come back in service after but with Stagecoach, vehicle is painted then returned to service and sent for retrim at later date
Ah, sorry. I misinterpreted what you said, but we are in fact in total agreement! :)
 

mayneway

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29 Mar 2024
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Manchester
In a rather odd move all 20 of the Scania’s have moved from storage at the airport to the army training centre on Oldham road in Failsworth.
Now im not saying it’s connected but Oldham have been really struggling for buses in the last week or so with ongoing issues with the chargers at the depot!

Be interesting to see where they end up!
 

Tim33160

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18 Feb 2019
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Probably due to cost of renting the space at the airport?
Smaller space at Army depot = cheaper?
 

Andyh82

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19 May 2014
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Talking about buses parked up, the Optare Versa school buses that Belle Vue were using are all parked up at their depot and haven’t been transferred to any of the new school bus operators

I’m guessing they won’t see service in Manchester again or maybe nowhere else either
 

mangad

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20 Jun 2014
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Stockport
Talking about buses parked up, the Optare Versa school buses that Belle Vue were using are all parked up at their depot and haven’t been transferred to any of the new school bus operators

I’m guessing they won’t see service in Manchester again or maybe nowhere else either
Saw at least one of those vehicles last week doing a sixth form college service - mostly they use white coaches but saw a couple of yellow buses running last week.

Belle Vue also used to use the yellow buses for taking school children to the swimming pool. Don't know if they still are, but you'd often see one parked up outside Grand Central Pool in Stockport with "Swimming Baths" on the display. Suspect they still have a few contacts for swimming services with schools in the Stockport are.

At least some of Belle Vue's yellow double deckers went to Diamond apparently.


[Edit: according to their website they have the contract for school swimming services in Stockport, Manchester and Tameside so they may well still be using the buses there. Belle Vue do more than is on bustimes.org, it must be said.]
 
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mayneway

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They still operate the baths bus contracts as they are direct with local authorities and nothing to do with TFGM.
Think they also still operate some closed door school contracts using a mixture of white/yellow Omnicities and E400’s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Talking about buses parked up, the Optare Versa school buses that Belle Vue were using are all parked up at their depot and haven’t been transferred to any of the new school bus operators

I’m guessing they won’t see service in Manchester again or maybe nowhere else either
The Versa’s are withdrawn as the maintenance contract with Optare at Trafford park has ended.
There’s still several parked at Little Hulton also.
 

Andyh82

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I visited Manchester today, postponed from last Saturday due to the bad weather. The amount of brand new buses on the roads with Metroline and Stagecoach is ridiculous. Have so many new buses ever entered service at the same time before anywhere in the country?

It’s funny seeing the 142/143 now being part operated by brand new buses when previously it would have had the oldest buses.

Altrincham has seen one of the biggest overnight shifts, from their routes having possibly the oldest fleet in Greater Manchester to pretty much entirely brand new.

It’s strange seeing London style fleet numbers on the Metroline fleet, but it’s a good thing, as due to TfGM not allowing an operator fleet name, it’s a quick way to easily identify who’s bus it is.
 

citybus2500

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12 May 2021
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I saw a Scania yesterday travelling up Hyde road away from the depot, so this must have been stored there.
2 Omnicty and a B9 drove past Hyde Road depot. They hadn't been in. One was 15400.


Probably due to cost of renting the space at the airport?
Smaller space at Army depot = cheaper?
Believe the cost was negligible, but was for a fixed period and the airport want the car park back.

Talking about buses parked up, the Optare Versa school buses that Belle Vue were using are all parked up at their depot and haven’t been transferred to any of the new school bus operators

I’m guessing they won’t see service in Manchester again or maybe nowhere else either
Versa BNV was noted in use on Ashton New Road last Wednesday.
 

mayneway

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It’s funny seeing the 142/143 now being part operated by brand new buses when previously it would have had the oldest buses.
Magic buses were **once** operated using older buses to keep fares low but to be honest once the final Tridents got withdrawn the majority of the Magics were hybrid E400’s, when Jon consider how many 08/58 plate E400’s were running in corporate livery the Magics were actually pretty modern.
 

PrinceBishop

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20 Aug 2014
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Altrincham has seen one of the biggest overnight shifts, from their routes having possibly the oldest fleet in Greater Manchester to pretty much entirely brand new.

This is true, and welcome, but on the 263 (Altrincham - Picc Gardens) many of the single deckers being used are shorter than the Arriva buses they replaced, meaning this route has effectively seen a cut in capacity since Bee Network took it over.
 

Redmike

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13 May 2018
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This is true, and welcome, but on the 263 (Altrincham - Picc Gardens) many of the single deckers being used are shorter than the Arriva buses they replaced, meaning this route has effectively seen a cut in capacity since Bee Network took it over.
The 313 used to have 160 seats per hour (Enviro 400s with 80 seats). Now there are 74 seats per hour (E200 MMCs with 37 seats and sometimes even less with short E200 MMCs) That’s over a 50% reduction in the number of seats.
 
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py_megapixel

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The 313 used to have 160 seats per hour (Enviro 400s with 80 seats). Now there are 74 seats per hour (E200 MMCs with 37 seats and sometimes even less with short E200 MMCs) That’s over a 50% reduction in the number of seats.
To be clear, I don't have any insider knowledge upon which to base the following comment. But a lot about the 313 is making me wonder if they intended to have a frequency increase and had to cancel or postpone it at the last minute.

It is not unusual for new buses to have slightly fewer seats than the ones they replace for various reasons. But to go from double deckers to single deckers without changing anything else seems very out-of-place - the places it serves are hardly the middle of nowhere and, at least from my trips on it, it seems reasonably well-used. 30 minutes is a pretty poor frequency for what seems to be the main or only service for large parts of the fairly densley populated suburb of Adswood, which probably merits turn-up-and-go transport. And the suboptimal timetable with a lack of turnaround time makes me wonder if they are not running the timetable they really intended to.

If the 313 ran on TfGM's standard-ish 12 minute frequency with 37-seat E200s, that would be 185 seats an hour - a similar number, in fact a modest increase, to when it was run with double deckers. But it's easy to see why someone might look at such a significant increase to the frequency and decide it was undeliverable, at least for now. It's what I'd like to see them do in the long term.

I suppose we will never know for certain whether this was their intention or not.
 

toms

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Are the Go North West Vantage B5s going to get an interior refurb? And are the remaining purple ones going to get painted?
 

mayneway

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Are the Go North West Vantage B5s going to get an interior refurb? And are the remaining purple ones going to get painted?
There was a suggestion they were being replaced so the refurbs were on hold.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Are the tender documents still available? Would this not specify capacity / frequencies?
Capacity is down to TFGM who have specified vehicle types and capacity’s for each route based on previous data. They were at one point doing capacity checks in the city centre.
 
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Cavendish1

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3 Apr 2019
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This is true, and welcome, but on the 263 (Altrincham - Picc Gardens) many of the single deckers being used are shorter than the Arriva buses they replaced, meaning this route has effectively seen a cut in capacity since Bee Network took it over.
In Ashton, the opposite has happened. The 336/7 and 389, which over recent years were operated by First, Mct, First again and finally Diamond, all with single deckers. Now Metroline run all the routes with doubles, they really are not needed on these local routes.
 

mangad

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In Ashton, the opposite has happened. The 336/7 and 389, which over recent years were operated by First, Mct, First again and finally Diamond, all with single deckers. Now Metroline run all the routes with doubles, they really are not needed on these local routes.
Maybe. On the other hand, the 389 goes past two secondary schools, neither of which have dedicated school buses.
 

GWVillager

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Are the Go North West Vantage B5s going to get an interior refurb? And are the remaining purple ones going to get painted?
I asked the social media team in March last year and they told me that the B5s will be replaced by new electrics within 12 months (from then). Apparently it hadn't yet been decided whether they would be cascaded somewhere else in GM or not, and evidently there hasn't been much movement since. I certainly hope they don't get refurbished, it won't be anywhere near as nice as now!
 

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