TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[Class 466]

View attachment 172385

I saw this out today on my local? I thought they were all withdrawn last week?

(Image shows what I believe is a B9 (?) bus in Pendleton)

Withdrawn by Stagecoach- now on loan from TfGM to Metroline in South Manchester. Unfortunate for those users, but good for us in North Manchester who endured these for the past few years and now get a whole new fleet cascaded from Stagecoach’s former South Manchester Depots

 

[cnjb8]

Looking at bustimes (with usual caveats) around 35 of the BZLs are in service (out of 110 due) plus the 24 e400 EVs mean that there are around 100 vehicles to enter service yet. These will replace the 45 e400s (08 reg) and 50 or so B9s. So the maths should work.

Yes they are being split, some are going to Metroline and the rest to Stagecoach at Middleton

I didn't think the BZLs were all going to Metroline - there was talk of TfGM allocating the remaining ones somewhere else instead.

Plus if what mayneway says is correct, like-for-like replacement will still leave them with a significant shortage of vehicles. At least they'll still have those old B9s, which might have a good few miles left in them yet...

I wonder if the E400EVs just aren't ready to enter service yet, they haven't all been registered and Stagecoach haven't put all of their's into service at Oldham yet

 

[Leyland Bus]

Withdrawn by Stagecoach- now on loan from TfGM to Metroline in South Manchester. Unfortunate for those users, but good for us in North Manchester who endured these for the past few years and now get a whole new fleet cascaded from Stagecoach’s former South Manchester Depots

Oh, there's nowt wrong with them...

 

[Class 466]

Yes they are being split, some are going to Metroline and the rest to Stagecoach at Middleton

I wonder if the E400EVs just aren't ready to enter service yet, they haven't all been registered and Stagecoach haven't put all of their's into service at Oldham yet

34/35 E400 EVs are in service at Oldham

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2025 ==

Oh, there's nowt wrong with them...

Much like the Networker trains down south, they needed some TLC and an interior refresh at some point in their life, both things never saw it

 

[Leyland Bus]

Much like the Networker trains down south, they needed some TLC and an interior refresh at some point in their life, both things never saw it

Very true!

 

[citybus2500]

It’s not what I was told.
Metroline flatly refused to use the Scania’s due to their overall condition. Many of them bounced back to Stagecoach who refused to do anything further with them claiming that’s how they received them in March.
It’s come full circle really though as TFGM are now being forced to rent diesel E400’s off Stagecoach at a considerable cost.

The B9’s were in a lot worse condition when stagecoach first inherited them. Many have had completely new suspension, axles and the dodgy exhaust mods rectified and put right.

Mix of stories. The E400s were arranged for short term hire by TfGM when the prospect of very few Volvo EVs was a possibility and before Metroline was complaining about the condition of the Omnicity. Another batch of buses that have missed recent TLC.

They seem to be having some issues with the BZLs too - a number only did one or two trips this morning (if that) before disappearing back into Hyde Road for the rest of the day.

There are limited charging facilities at Hyde Road so they are operaing many of the shorter boards until that is rectified. The lane closures outside Hyde Road garage are part of getting these facilities up and running.

I didn't think the BZLs were all going to Metroline - there was talk of TfGM allocating the remaining ones somewhere else instead.

Plus if what mayneway says is correct, like-for-like replacement will still leave them with a significant shortage of vehicles. At least they'll still have those old B9s, which might have a good few miles left in them yet...

The last I saw, not all the BZLs are allocated to an operation yet. Stagecoach are to get 43, with another 17 to be allocated. As 47550 says, there are 96 loan vehicles at Metroline (plus the Scottish B5LHs) with over 100 new buses still due.

Well from what I’ve been told today there was around 30 drivers and boards at Hyde road this morning with no vehicles, and a handful at Ashton and Sharston in the same position.

An exageration, but it has been difficult. B9s failing in the morning being a big contributer. There are also a number of E400Hs that haven't been available, mostly from Yorkshire and as well as a chunk of B9s. About 20 in total.

Oh, there's nowt wrong with them...

hahahaha

 

[Class 466]

51 of the 52 B9s have been allocated Metroline fleetnumbers, although not all may be used. It wasn't intended to use that many but the rejection of the ADL E400EVs required them.

Sorry to come back to this but what did you mean by them rejecting the E400EVs? Is that a temporary thing or are Metroline not going to use the 24 they were allocated?

 

[citybus2500]

Sorry to come back to this but what did you mean by them rejecting the E400EVs? Is that a temporary thing or are Metroline not going to use the 24 they were allocated?

ADL need to undertake some modifications.

 

[Class 466]

ADL need to undertake some modifications.

Ah so it’s temporary, good stuff. I only asked because people on certain Facebook groups scout this forum and have sent themselves into a proverbial meltdown over the thought of Metroline rejecting buses based on your original post

 

[citybus2500]

Ah so it’s temporary, good stuff. I only asked because people on certain Facebook groups scout this forum and have sent themselves into a proverbial meltdown over the thought of Metroline rejecting buses based on your original post

Bless!

 

[darylyates17]

Mix of stories. The E400s were arranged for short term hire by TfGM when the prospect of very few Volvo EVs was a possibility and before Metroline was complaining about the condition of the Omnicity. Another batch of buses that have missed recent TLC.



There are limited charging facilities at Hyde Road so they are operaing many of the shorter boards until that is rectified. The lane closures outside Hyde Road garage are part of getting these facilities up and running.


The last I saw, not all the BZLs are allocated to an operation yet. Stagecoach are to get 43, with another 17 to be allocated. As 47550 says, there are 96 loan vehicles at Metroline (plus the Scottish B5LHs) with over 100 new buses still due.



An exageration, but it has been difficult. B9s failing in the morning being a big contributer. There are also a number of E400Hs that haven't been available, mostly from Yorkshire and as well as a chunk of B9s. About 20 in total.


hahahaha

I thought the Scottish B5LHs had been purchased outright are they only on loan then?

 

[mayneway]

An exageration, but it has been difficult. B9s failing in the morning being a big contributer. There are also a number of E400Hs that haven't been available, mostly from Yorkshire and as well as a chunk of B9s. About 20 in total.

The photos doing the rounds earlier today (Tuesday) clearly show between 20-30 drivers all stood with running boards waiting for buses.

The B9’s in all honesty seem to be propping The Hyde road operation up. It really is a poor show!
The majority of the B9’s being used were withdrawn by Stagecoach on Friday night, driven to the airport, then in little more than 24 hours were driven to Hyde road and Sharston and pressed into service. No inspections, no opportunity to rectify defects and issues they have literally been chucked out in service with crossed fingers they don’t break down!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2025 ==

Ah so it’s temporary, good stuff. I only asked because people on certain Facebook groups scout this forum and have sent themselves into a proverbial meltdown over the thought of Metroline rejecting buses based on your original post

The Scanias were rejected, and believe it or not, a security guard is being paid by TFGM to guard 20 Scania’s, a couple of demic B9’s and a brand new E200 MMC that won’t start at Manchester airport while TFGM decide what to do with them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2025 ==

I thought the Scottish B5LHs had been purchased outright are they only on loan then?

They were bought by TFGM not Metroline so are part of the vehicle pool. Once Metroline receives its full fleet the pool vehicles will either be used elsewhere or sold on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2025 ==

Mix of stories. The E400s were arranged for short term hire by TfGM when the prospect of very few Volvo EVs was a possibility and before Metroline was complaining about the condition of the Omnicity. Another batch of buses that have missed recent TLC.

The Scania’s were withdrawn by Stagecoach at the end of November and were like boomerangs being bounced from the airport to Queens road over and over because Metroline were not happy with them, and we were certain they wouldn’t see use at Hyde road - despite TFGM claiming they were ‘good’ buses!

 

[StagecoachBus1]

How come Metroline are using their new Streetdecks on school runs, whilst tatty hybrids and tridents are appearing on major routes - this seems mostly to be Sharston, but I’d have thought they want to try and keep their brand new buses nice?

 

[M60lad]

I thought I read somewhere that Metroline were supposedly bringing some of their own vehicles up to Manchester from London to operate their services, if this is true what happened to this happening and why can't it happen now considering how short of vehicles they are up here? Only thing I can imagine why this happened is that most if not all of Metroline's London fleet will be dual door which means they can't be used in/around Manchester.

As for the Scanias did any of these actually come from Metroline originally and if so maybe they know what state they were in when they originally came up here?

 

[py_megapixel]

Only thing I can imagine why this happened is that most if not all of Metroline's London fleet will be dual door which means they can't be used in/around Manchester.

Running dual-door vehicles with the rear door temporarily locked out would clearly be sub-optimal, but it'd certainly be better than cancelling services.

Heck, even those old Scanias would be better than nothing... as long as they don't break down, of course.

 

[Goldfish62]

Running dual-door vehicles with the rear door temporarily locked out would clearly be sub-optimal, but it'd certainly be better than cancelling services.

The issue is with the centre door ramp. Not insurmountable, but only needs one wheelchair user not able to board or alight due to stop infrastructure issues for things to blow up.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I thought I read somewhere that Metroline were supposedly bringing some of their own vehicles up to Manchester from London to operate their services, if this is true what happened to this happening and why can't it happen now considering how short of vehicles they are up here? Only thing I can imagine why this happened is that most if not all of Metroline's London fleet will be dual door which means they can't be used in/around Manchester.

As for the Scanias did any of these actually come from Metroline originally and if so maybe they know what state they were in when they originally came up here?

Metroline have been having issues of their own getting garages in London electrified - single-deck BZLs for Willesden Junction (for routes 187/487) have been sat around for months, and their various Wright StreetDeck Electroliners have been trickling into service after some months stored too.

There are now various other electric bus orders now starting to arrive, but when they enter service will be anyone's guess. With that in mind, any planned cascades from London to start operations - Metroline have hundreds and hundreds of Volvo B5LH 'deckers, for example - must have been canned some time ago, if they ever were intended.

 

[py_megapixel]

The issue is with the centre door ramp. Not insurmountable, but only needs one wheelchair user not able to board or alight due to stop infrastructure issues for things to blow up.

Ah yes, I always forget London vehicles don't have a ramp at the front doorway. That makes sense.

 

[Goldfish62]

Metroline have been having issues of their own getting garages in London electrified - single-deck BZLs for Willesden Junction (for routes 187/487) have been sat around for months, and their various Wright StreetDeck Electroliners have been trickling into service after some months stored too.

No different from any operator anywhere. It's usually much quicker to build and deliver buses than it is to get depots electrified, especially where the first-time connection to the power network is complex. As well as depot capacity that may require a redesign issues such as the connection to the network invariably require a new substation and the connection requiring lengthy cabling can sometimes be up to a mile away.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

No different from any operator anywhere. It's usually much quicker to build and deliver buses than it is to get depots electrified, especially where the first-time connection to the power network is complex. As well depot capacity that may require a redesign issues such as the connection to he network invariably require a new substation and the connection requiring lengthy cabling can sometimes be up to a mile away.

Very true.

Remember the brickbats being directed at a certain person at Transdev when a diesel generator had to be installed temporarily at Harrogate bus station to allow opportunity charging? Of course, the comments failed to appreciate that Transdev had done their bit... It was the local infrastructure provider who hadn't been able to meet the agreed timeline.

 

[Fox192]

Seen on bustimes sc585 on 250 today unless tracking error

 

[Murray J]

Seen on bustimes sc585 on 250 today unless tracking error

It just turned on once then came off again, so it's just someone turning on the ticket machine (and judging by the location it looks to be Hyde Road).

 

[M60lad]

Does anybody know which operator is planned to get BZL single decks and what routes in theory they might be used on?

 

[47550]

Does anybody know which operator is planned to get BZL single decks and what routes in theory they might be used on?

There was an article on Metroline in Buses magazine back in October saying that they were having 6 of them. However plans change. I'm sure I've seen a picture of one somewhere so I suspect some have been delivered.

 

[toms]

There was an article on Metroline in Buses magazine back in October saying that they were having 6 of them. However plans change. I'm sure I've seen a picture of one somewhere so I suspect some have been delivered.

A new one was spotted down south

 

[HSTEd]

I must admit I am not a huge fan of the route displays on the front of the new Bee Network buses on Oxford Road.

The displays seem to be sized only for two digits, so three digit numbers are crammed in and can be hard to read rapidly.

The ex Stagecoach buses look much better in that respect.

 

[py_megapixel]

I must admit I am not a huge fan of the route displays on the front of the new Bee Network buses on Oxford Road.

The displays seem to be sized only for two digits, so three digit numbers are crammed in and can be hard to read rapidly.

The ex Stagecoach buses look much better in that respect.

I agree, but it looks to me like they have been set up rather hurriedly, perhaps by copying the configuration from the ex-Stagecoach buses to newer buses that have slightly different hardware. I noticed quite a few routes with other issues, such as displaying nothing on the side display.

Also I notice the destination on some route displays is still just being shown as "Piccadilly" where everything else is saying "Manchester" or sometimes nearer the centre "Piccadilly Gardens" (presumably to avoid confusion with Piccadilly train station, which is reasonable).

I imagine at some point the configuration will be re-done to improve it. (Hopefully the same for Stagecoach buses, which seem to have the opposite problem to the Metroline ones, in that the route numbers are nice and clear but there is small scrolling text which can be difficult to read as the bus approaches)

 

[toms]

I agree, but it looks to me like they have been set up rather hurriedly, perhaps by copying the configuration from the ex-Stagecoach buses to newer buses that have slightly different hardware. I noticed quite a few routes with other issues, such as displaying nothing on the side display.

Also I notice the destination on some route displays is still just being shown as "Piccadilly" where everything else is saying "Manchester" or sometimes nearer the centre "Piccadilly Gardens" (presumably to avoid confusion with Piccadilly train station, which is reasonable).

I imagine at some point the configuration will be re-done to improve it. (Hopefully the same for Stagecoach buses, which seem to have the opposite problem to the Metroline ones, in that the route numbers are nice and clear but there is small scrolling text which can be difficult to read as the bus approaches)

It seems there is no specification on what display brand is used and what font is used. Diamonds tranche 1 fleet primarily use Mobitech displays with the standard font where as their tranche 3 fleet use Hanover displays with the same font Stagecoach like to use. It’s seems Go North West, Stagecoach and First have gone for Hanover Systems for their new fleets but Metroline have gone for only Mobitech with the exception of the BZLs which were for Stagecoach and of course the E200MMCs. As for the destinations, Tranche 1 and 2 routes use “Manchester” as the destination as they did with previous companies, and Metroline routes use previous destinations used by Stagecoach such as “Piccadilly” instead of Manchester. Not sure why tranche 3 is different to any of the other tranches and I’m not sure if their is a specification on that either but the AVA displays and announcement will change from “Manchester” to their actual final destination when the service gets close to the terminus on most routes.

 

[MotCO]

Looking at Stage 3 from the outside and from afar, it seems as though the transition has been less smooth than the earlier stages. Everything from gaps in service, buses having not been accepted at short notice, poor displays etc. Is that a fair assessment, and why were the first two stages seemingly so much better in their introduction?

 

[Fox192]

Looking at Stage 3 from the outside and from afar, it seems as though the transition has been less smooth than the earlier stages. Everything from gaps in service, buses having not been accepted at short notice, poor displays etc. Is that a fair assessment, and why were the first two stages seemingly so much better in their introduction?

Could possibly be because it’s an entirely new company to Manchester