TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[Dwarfer1979]

I do wonder at this point if TfGM should have all buses and types in a common fleetnumber series, would save alot of faffing about...

A fleet number is an internal stock number to allow an operator to track a vehicle to record fuel issues (whether diesel, electric or anything else), to keep track of maintenance records and to allow drivers to identify their vehicle from a sea of identical vehicles in a yard (this being the only reason the number is shown in any sort of prominent position or size). Except for the last one these days this requires this ID to be entered into company systems to maintain this information securely and robustly and for most of the companies involved these are now held on computer systems that are used by all companies which is why so many have adopted these standard national numbering systems. Insisting operators use an ID that then prevents them from safely and robustly tracking the data of the vehicle within their established systems is counter productive and helps no one but bus enthusiasts as no one else cares.

There is nothing to stop TfGM having their own internal vehicle IDs but there is no reason for those IDs to be known to anyone outside TfGM asset management systems.

 

[mayneway]

When we were moving buses around at the start of Tranche 3 TFGM were working off vehicle registrations not fleetnumbers.

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I know it’s up to TfGM but I dont understand why they picked 4133 being in the middle of a batch. In my opinion, I think it would've been better if they had chosen 4152 (if they moved another E200MMC from Bolton to Wigan) and then theres 3 consecutive buses (4152-4) that move to Wythenshawe, instead of having a random gap in fleet numbers. Also I would've thought Diamond 30660 would become DE673, as that was planned to be withdrawn (and was marked as withdrawn on wmbusphotos.com). It seems silly having a non standard 4 pot 11.5m E200MMC in a depot full of 6 pot 11.8m examples.

As I’ve said below, TFGM don’t work off company fleet numbers and probably just requested that one of the batch was prepared for transfer to Metroline. Engineering at Go North west most probably picked the bus with shortest MOT and other reoccurring defects to move on.

 

[Leyland Bus]

When we were moving buses around at the start of Tranche 3 TFGM were working off vehicle registrations not fleetnumbers.

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As I’ve said below, TFGM don’t work off company fleet numbers and probably just requested that one of the batch was prepared for transfer to Metroline. Engineering at Go North west most probably picked the bus with shortest MOT and other reoccurring defects to move on.

Sadly, TfGM dictate which vehicles, when and where.

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A fleet number is an internal stock number to allow an operator to track a vehicle to record fuel issues (whether diesel, electric or anything else), to keep track of maintenance records and to allow drivers to identify their vehicle from a sea of identical vehicles in a yard (this being the only reason the number is shown in any sort of prominent position or size). Except for the last one these days this requires this ID to be entered into company systems to maintain this information securely and robustly and for most of the companies involved these are now held on computer systems that are used by all companies which is why so many have adopted these standard national numbering systems. Insisting operators use an ID that then prevents them from safely and robustly tracking the data of the vehicle within their established systems is counter productive and helps no one but bus enthusiasts as no one else cares.

There is nothing to stop TfGM having their own internal vehicle IDs but there is no reason for those IDs to be known to anyone outside TfGM asset management systems.

Yes, thankyou, I know exactly the what and why of fleetnumbers. I more thinking of saving poor folk like me having to swap and change, especially on large moves... I've enough to do

 

[mayneway]

Sadly, TfGM dictate which vehicles, when and where.

That’s interesting, it’s obviously changed a bit since I was involved in it all.
When TFGM requested or approved vehicle movements within stagecoach it was just vehicle type and it was always the worse of the batch or shortest MOT that got moved haha.

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Yes, thankyou, I know exactly the what and why of fleetnumbers. I more thinking of saving poor folk like me having to swap and change, especially on large moves... I've enough to do

Not just eternal anymore either as they have the internal stickers now too. Big job breaking out!

 

[Leyland Bus]

That’s interesting, it’s obviously changed a bit since I was involved in it all.
When TFGM requested or approved vehicle movements within stagecoach it was just vehicle type and it was always the worse of the batch or shortest MOT that got moved haha.

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Not just eternal anymore either as they have the internal stickers now too. Big job breaking out!

It could always be dependant on what they want moving but as more of the fleets become "theirs" so to speak, its getting more specific, like 4153/4 at WN for example (which were still there waiting to go as of last Thursday but may well have gone over now).


*My bolding.

 

[stait.john]

And the upcoming move of 5 Streetdecks from GNW to Stagecoach Stockport!

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10044, 10048 are the first E400s to be parked up ready for cascade within Stagecoach, 19562 & 19563 are now also decommissioned and into Reserve if any other OpCo would want them.

11255, 11256, 11799, 11813 & 11816 are all now at Stockport.

 

[mattyharding]

And the upcoming move of 5 Streetdecks from GNW to Stagecoach Stockport!

Are these Vision Zero or the older variant of the Streetdecks

 

[mattyharding]

11255, 11256, 11799, 11813 & 11816 are all now at Stockport.

I think more Electroliners will enter service this week

 

[M60lad]

Not to sue who's in charge of the interior fleet number stickers that tell passengers what bus their on but I was on Metroline MMC200 DE483 yesterday on 313 and its interior fleetnumber was still showing its old Go Northwest fleet number 4153 from what it was at Bryn (Wigan) Depot.

 

[mattyharding]

When could we potentially see Electroliners become regular on the 348

 

[MCRTransitYT]

When could we potentially see Electroliners become regular on the 348

When Oldham becomes fully electric? If it used the B5LH Gemini 2s before they were introduced, they are clearly at the bottom, or near, of the priority list for electrics. You'll just have to wait

 

[mattyharding]

When Oldham becomes fully electric? If it used the B5LH Gemini 2s before they were introduced, they are clearly at the bottom, or near, of the priority list for electrics. You'll just have to wait

I suppose but I thought once the Electroliners arrived they would straight up replace them, despite that however there has been an increase of EVs on the 348

 

[M60lad]

Considering most drivers at Oldham Depot are now trained up on Electroliners I would have thought the usage will now become regular on various routes, in fact 82470 spent yesterday afternoon on 402s if BusTimes is led to be believed.

They are regulars on 181/182s now from what I've been seeing, there's usually a couple of them out on there at some parts of the day.

 

[MCRTransitYT]

I suppose but I thought once the Electroliners arrived they would straight up replace them, despite that however there has been an increase of EVs on the 348

The Go North West MF26 StreetDecks were ordered for the 8 and 10, but often are used on 36 37 471s

 

[mattyharding]

The Go North West MF26 StreetDecks were ordered for the 8 and 10, but often are used on 36 37 471s

Yeah, looks like the same thing will happen with these at Oldham they'll be used on most routes, except for the 348 and 350 apparently

 

[py_megapixel]

The Go North West MF26 StreetDecks were ordered for the 8 and 10, but often are used on 36 37 471s

They were ordered so that Bolton would have enough electric double deckers in total to electrify the 8 and 10 in addition to the existing electric routes. That doesn't mean the Streetdecks need to be restricted to the 8/10 and the E400s to the 36/37/471 (and it would be very odd to do that unless there was a good reason to, as otherwise it's just a needless loss of flexibility)

 

[MCRTransitYT]

They were ordered so that Bolton would have enough electric double deckers in total to electrify the 8 and 10 in addition to the existing electric routes. That doesn't mean the Streetdecks need to be restricted to the 8/10 and the E400s to the 36/37/471 (and it would be very odd to do that unless there was a good reason to, as otherwise it's just a needless loss of flexibility)

According to the TfGM Press release when they ordered 125 Wrightbus Electroliners, it says:

"Of those, 33 new electric double decker buses will serve bus routes 8 and 10 making these routes, which serve Bolton, Farnworth, Pendlebury and Salford, fully electric.

The other 43 specially-modified V1, V2 and V4 vehicles have passed inspection at the Ballymena factory and will start serving the Leigh Guided Busway in the coming weeks."

I understand your point as its often the case that the routes that get Electric buses first, typically get the newer buses, such as the 83, when it got the BYDs, ADL Enviro400 EVs and then the new StreetDecks, while other routes around Oldham, like the 348, may see the older electrics but rarely the newer ones.

 

[mattyharding]

According to the TfGM Press release when they ordered 125 Wrightbus Electroliners, it says:

I understand your point as its often the case that the routes that get Electric buses first, typically get the newer buses, such as the 83, when it got the BYDs, ADL Enviro400 EVs and then the new StreetDecks, while other routes around Oldham, like the 348, may see the older electrics but rarely the newer ones.

To be honest I wouldn't mind seeing BYDs and E400 EVs be the regulars on the 348

 

[mayneway]

Main issue with the 348/350 is the buses work to a diagram where they stay out all day and work between 348/350’s. Obviously this won’t be possible with electrics as they need charging throughout the day so I dare say there would have to be a re-write where they work back and forth to the depot for charging.

 

[Park47515]

According to the TfGM Press release when they ordered 125 Wrightbus Electroliners, it says:

I understand your point as its often the case that the routes that get Electric buses first, typically get the newer buses, such as the 83, when it got the BYDs, ADL Enviro400 EVs and then the new StreetDecks, while other routes around Oldham, like the 348, may see the older electrics but rarely the newer ones.

That logic was a major issue when First were in charge and investing and the 82/83 and 8/36/37 for instance were top of the pile. Is it a massive issue if it's a older electric or a new electric?

 

[MCRTransitYT]

That logic was a major issue when First were in charge and investing and the 82/83 and 8/36/37 for instance were top of the pile. Is it a massive issue if it's a older electric or a new electric?

Especially the BYDs at Bolton, they are quite unreliable so they often break down and obviously cause disruptions to main services, and the impact is reduced if they are on less busier services. They still might be busy however.

 

[Andyh82]

That logic was a major issue when First were in charge and investing and the 82/83 and 8/36/37 for instance were top of the pile. Is it a massive issue if it's a older electric or a new electric?

No, as they are all basically the same age in the wider scheme of things, and of course they all have exactly the same interior spec meaning the customer won’t be able to tell the difference between a ‘new’ electric and a so called ‘old’ electric

It’s not like the deregulated world where a new bus would have some sort of enhanced spec and the old bus would be about 10 years older and much more basic.

 

[Redmike]

Main issue with the 348/350 is the buses work to a diagram where they stay out all day and work between 348/350’s. Obviously this won’t be possible with electrics as they need charging throughout the day so I dare say there would have to be a re-write where they work back and forth to the depot for charging.

The 348/350 would probably make more sense being run from Ashton depot, there are historical reasons why they run from Oldham.

 

[mayneway]

The 348/350 would probably make more sense being run from Ashton depot, there are historical reasons why they run from Oldham.

Agree, more so with the 348, but logistically the only way it will work electric wise is if buses do 2/3 trips and then return to depot.

 

[mattyharding]

Agree, more so with the 348, but logistically the only way it will work electric wise is if buses do 2/3 trips and then return to depot.

Yeah the 350 can stay at Oldham to be fair as some 350s run up to Oldham, so explain to me why does the 348 and 350 interwork with one and another because I've experienced a lot of delays on the 348 because of a late running 350

 

[M60lad]

Ironically are people forgetting that both 348 & 350 were actually originally operated out of Ashton (Well Dukinfield First Pennine) Depot? Oldham Depot only started operating 348/350 when First Pennine closed.

As for the workings on 348/350 it seems to be the following:

Mon-Fri 350 Oldham-Ashton
350 Ashton-Micklehurst
350 Micklehurst-Ashton'
350 Ashton-Oldham

Mon-Fri a bus will do a couple of 348s before either dropping onto a 350 Micklehurst or a 350 to Oldham.

Saturday the 350 turnbacks don't operate so they do the following:

350 Oldham-Ashton
348 Ashton-Carrbrook
348 Carrbrook-Ashton
350 Ashton-Oldham

The above seems to be standard but I do know that some 350s during the week interwork with 348s but I think this is the exception to the rule.

 

[mattyharding]

Ironically are people forgetting that both 348 & 350 were actually originally operated out of Ashton (Well Dukinfield First Pennine) Depot? Oldham Depot only started operating 348/350 when First Pennine closed.

As for the workings on 348/350 it seems to be the following:

Mon-Fri 350 Oldham-Ashton
350 Ashton-Micklehurst
350 Micklehurst-Ashton'
350 Ashton-Oldham

Mon-Fri a bus will do a couple of 348s before either dropping onto a 350 Micklehurst or a 350 to Oldham.

Saturday the 350 turnbacks don't operate so they do the following:

350 Oldham-Ashton
348 Ashton-Carrbrook
348 Carrbrook-Ashton
350 Ashton-Oldham

The above seems to be standard but I do know that some 350s during the week interwork with 348s but I think this is the exception to the rule.

I remember it being run out of Dukinfield and how poor the service was back then especially when it snowed

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I remember it being run out of Dukinfield and how poor the service was back then especially when it snowed

Sometimes the drivers would chat to each other at Carrbrook which caused all sorts of disruptions as back then the 348 was actually ever 10 minutes or so

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WDE 700 has arrived in Wirral for Metroline Hyde Road which will be the first 76 plate bus on the Bee Network

 

[MCRTransitYT]

WDE 700 has arrived in Wirral for Metroline Hyde Road which will be the first 76 plate bus on the Bee Network

Can't imagine it being the very first, that would likely go to WDE674, being numerically the first new StreetDeck Electroliners for Metroline. Unless Metroline are planning for other buses to fill 674-699, can imagine these 100 following on from ex GNW Bolton 4133/DE673