TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[Bovverboy]

there are duties where you do 52’s and 100’s in the same duty.

That strikes me as a recipe for disaster.

 

[M60lad]

As for vehicles hitting it how can we forget one that became famous First Manchester 3407 which ended up coming back with an East Lancs Roof and not to sure whether it was because of the incident but all of Queens Road's batch of Alexander Royale Olympians ended up being transferred to Oldham Depot including 3407 when it re-entered service.

Question now is will 11512 be withdrawn or will Stagecoach have it repaired?

 

[Class 466]

As for vehicles hitting it how can we forget one that became famous First Manchester 3407 which ended up coming back with an East Lancs Roof and not to sure whether it was because of the incident but all of Queens Road's batch of Alexander Royale Olympians ended up being transferred to Oldham Depot including 3407 when it re-entered service.

Question now is will 11512 be withdrawn or will Stagecoach have it repaired?

Repaired is almost definitely the outcome. It’s a 5 year old vehicle in a body shell that is still manufactured. Might take some time but it’ll be back I’m almost certain.

 

[Bovverboy]

Repaired is almost definitely the outcome. It’s a 5 year old vehicle in a body shell that is still manufactured. Might take some time but it’ll be back I’m almost certain.

It might become an open-topper for the Lake District.

 

[Leyland Bus]

It might become an open-topper for the Lake District.

Im pretty sure it'll end up at Thorntons.

 

[mangad]

It might become an open-topper for the Lake District.

Far too new for that. Vehicles have to be at least 20 years old before they get deployed as open top vehicles in the Lakes.

 

[MotCO]

The most likely occurrence is the driver thought he was on a 52, that goes under the bridge with single deckers, rather than a 100 that goes past the bridge but not under.

Is it possible for the 52 and 100 to be operated by different garages to minimise the risk?

 

[Class 466]

It might become an open-topper for the Lake District.

It’s a TFGM asset operated by Stagecoach- it’ll be repaired.

 

[Bovverboy]

Is it possible for the 52 and 100 to be operated by different garages to minimise the risk?

That's certainly an option - Eccles (Diamond) being an obvious candidate. No shortage of routes available to move the other way.

 

[mayneway]

Is it possible for the 52 and 100 to be operated by different garages to minimise the risk?

It’s a possibility but let’s be clear on this. The bridge is literally 2-3 meters from where it should have actually been. Buses, often double deckers head over the swing bridge past the junction every few minutes so there’s always a risk.
TFGM are playing smoke and mirrors today in the press stating the bus was ‘off route’.
Well it was but only just.

 

[Statto]

It’s a possibility but let’s be clear on this. The bridge is literally 2-3 meters from where it should have actually been. Buses, often double deckers head over the swing bridge past the junction every few minutes so there’s always a risk.
TFGM are playing smoke and mirrors today in the press stating the bus was ‘off route’.
Well it was but only just.

The bus was off route, even if it was by a few yards, the driver has been arrested on suspicion of causing serious injury by careless driving, & getting a P45 is the least of the drivers worries right now.

Bus driver arrested over Eccles bridge crash which hurt 20 people

A man in his 50s is arrested on suspicion of causing serious injury by careless driving, police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bus driver arrested after 20 injured in bridge crash​

Image source, Salar Ardalani
Image caption,
An investigation is underway into the circumstances surrounding the crash
Sarah Spina-Matthews & Lynette Horsburgh
BBC News, Manchester

• • Published
    22 July 2025, 07:39 BST

Updated 12 minutes ago
The driver of a double-decker bus that crashed into a canal bridge injuring 20 people, including three who were seriously hurt, has been arrested.
A passenger was thrown from the top deck when the vehicle's roof was torn off as it struck the Bridgewater Canal Aqueduct on Barton Lane in Eccles, Salford on Monday, Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said.
The force said a 19-year-old woman, and two men, one aged in his 20s and another in his 40s, sustained serious injuries and remain in hospital in a stable condition.
The driver, a man in his 50s, was arrested on suspicion of causing serious injury by careless driving and has been bailed pending further enquiries.
Police said 17 other people were also treated at the scene for injuries that were "non-life threatening or life-changing".
Barton Lane has since been reopened, and Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) said it has launched an "immediate and urgent" investigation into the circumstances of the crash.
This includes why the 100 service bus was "not taking its usual route", a TFGM spokesman said.

Image source, Richard Stead/BBC
Image caption,
Barton Lane reopened on Tuesday after the crash
Police said there are height restriction warnings in place by the bridge, including hanging chains and signs.
Transport Commissioner for Greater Manchester Vernon Everitt said: "We are working closely with the investigation team at Greater Manchester Police and the bus operator, Stagecoach.
"This is clearly a distressing situation for everyone involved and we'd like to thank emergency services for their swift response."
The road was closed into Monday evening with diversions in place as authorities worked to move the damaged bus.

Image source, X
Image caption,
The roof of the bus was torn off in the crash
Labour MP for Worsley and Eccles Michael Wheeler said the crash was "unacceptable".
"It's not the first time this has happened, so after understanding what's happened we need to do everything we can to make sure it doesn't happen again," he told BBC Radio Manchester.
A bus has previously had its roof ripped off after striking the same bridge in April 2023.

 

[Class 466]

A Metroline Driver trainer B9 has hit a different bridge this morning in Newton Heath.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It’s a possibility but let’s be clear on this. The bridge is literally 2-3 meters from where it should have actually been. Buses, often double deckers head over the swing bridge past the junction every few minutes so there’s always a risk.
TFGM are playing smoke and mirrors today in the press stating the bus was ‘off route’.
Well it was but only just.

At the end of the day, off route is off route. The bridge is about 50 yds from the junction (not 2-3 metres) and the bus wasn't actually supposed to turn for about another half a mile.

Looking at Google maps, the low bridge is signed almost immediately after leaving the swing bridge and then again immediately at the entrance to Barton Lane, although one of the signs at the entrance looks like it would potentially be obscured by the traffic lights themselves. The most recent street view imagery is from 4 months ago and seems to show that the height restriction sign and accompanying black & yellow chevrons have been removed from the bridge itself within the past year. There's also a warning barrier with hanging chains at the entrance to Barton Lane, but street view shows it to be in a poor state of repair, with no high visibility measures whatsoever and many of the chains themselves wrapped around the barrier and thus not actually dangling down to provide any sort of warning.

 

[mayneway]

A Metroline Driver trainer B9 has hit a different bridge this morning in Newton Heath.

All trains towards Ashton cancelled as a result. Thankfully nobody injured in this one.

 

[Bovverboy]

The vehicle involved is VW1824 (BK10MFA), Volvo B9TL/Wright H39/23D, new 4/10 as Centrewest VN37872.

Dashing about with an umlaut?

Metroline Manchester VW1824 (BK10 MFA), drafted in as a driver trainer for the upcoming Bee Network venture and demonstrating a smiley face motif that could also be seen as a piece of German punctuation. Metroline London legals are carried. Ashton, Wellington Road, 11/10/2024. Posted 22/10/2024.

flic.kr

 

[Crossover]

Quite...


I wonder how many buses have actually hit that bridge over the years? Clearly one is too many but I'm curous to know if we've got to double figures yet?

What surprises me, is how close the bridge is to the junction the bus came off and how far the driver got under it. In many bridge strikes, the vehicle invariably gets wedged under the bridge but this one took the roof off and kept going (for a relatively considerable distance)

 

[mayneway]

What surprises me, is how close the bridge is to the junction the bus came off and how far the driver got under it. In many bridge strikes, the vehicle invariably gets wedged under the bridge but this one took the roof off and kept going (for a relatively considerable distance)

Driver will have come over the swing bridge and had the green filter light on to turn right under the bridge so will have been at speed - I’m certain had the driver stopped at the lights he would have realised and corrected himself. The approach to the bridge is also downhill.

 

[Bovverboy]

Has the Barton Lane bridge ever been struck by a bus approaching from the opposite direction?

 

[Edsmith]

What surprises me, is how close the bridge is to the junction the bus came off and how far the driver got under it. In many bridge strikes, the vehicle invariably gets wedged under the bridge but this one took the roof off and kept going (for a relatively considerable distance)

I would think some of the passengers would have realised the drivers mistake? Maybe they shouted and the driver didn't hear them, he/she seemingly didn't realise immediately that they had hit the bridge.

Best wishes to those seriously injured.

 

[Crossover]

I would think some of the passengers would have realised the drivers mistake? Maybe they shouted and the driver didn't hear them, he/she seemingly didn't realise immediately that they had hit the bridge.

Best wishes to those seriously injured.

I suspect some passengers would have realised and were maybe able to shout a warnings to others. On the video, there are evidently people laid across a double seat and hopefully it avoided the serious injury count being higher than it already unfortunately was

 

[mayneway]

Has the Barton Lane bridge ever been struck by a bus approaching from the opposite direction?

I’m fairly certain the strike before this one involving a Diamond eccles Streetdeck had struck it on the opposite side. From what I remember it was on a dead run from the Eccles depot to Trafford centre.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2025 ==

I would think some of the passengers would have realised the drivers mistake? Maybe they shouted and the driver didn't hear them, he/she seemingly didn't realise immediately that they had hit the bridge.

Best wishes to those seriously injured.

The bridge is literally seconds from the junction so by the time they realised it would have been too late.
Cab screens don’t help either so even if people were shouting the driver probably didn’t hear clearly what was being said.

 

[Bungle965]

Do the TfGM Ticketer machines not have the option for Road Restriction Alerts enabled?

I am not privy as to whether it comes enabled automatically with the machines (I suspect not) but I imagine it probably should be something that TfGM look into

Fleet Management - Ticketer

Streamline services, create operational efficiencies and enhance passenger experiences with Ticketer's smart, scalable technology.

www.ticketer.com

 

[Leyland Bus]

The machines at GNW bleep for low bridges (infact they bleep just going round the far end of the depot standard Bolton) I'd have thought it were standard fayre nowadays?

 

[mangad]

Posted this on the Route Network changes thread, but realised most of the discussion on the bridge strike's been on this one.

Manchester Evening News have a new story with some updates from TfGM about the Barton Lane Bridge.

Specifically from the article: "the installation of new and additional warning measures – including further signage – at and near the bridge, some of which (roadside signs) is already in place." As mentioned earlier, Google Streetview shows the warning barriers to be in a state of disrepair (compared to what used to be there). They're also looking at re-routing buses away from Barton Lane.

 

[mayneway]

Do the TfGM Ticketer machines not have the option for Road Restriction Alerts enabled?

I am not privy as to whether it comes enabled automatically with the machines (I suspect not) but I imagine it probably should be something that TfGM look into

Fleet Management - Ticketer

Streamline services, create operational efficiencies and enhance passenger experiences with Ticketer's smart, scalable technology.

www.ticketer.com

Yes they do and in terms of the 100 the ticket machine goes off well before the junction with the low bridge heading towards Trafford centre but heading the other way it goes off when your actually through the junction so it’s too late.

Several years ago GNW trailed low warning bridge alert systems on several buses at Queens road and the system was found to be very glitchy. From what I remember all the Evosetti’s were fitted with it but when the Bee network rolled in it would have become something for TFGM to roll out.

Personally I find the ticket machine warning system annoying and useless.

 

[Class 466]

Personally I find the ticket machine warning system annoying and useless.

I know it goes off heading through Prestwich village like nobodies business. With so many false activations it’s not really a useful or reliable system - any investigation would conclude that it’s ineffectiveness could easily lead to it being ignored.

 

[Stan Drews]

There’s an additional monthly charge per ticket machine for the alert system to be active. With a fleet the size of the Bee Network that’s likely to mean quite a significant annual cost to TfGM.

 

[mayneway]

I know it goes off heading through Prestwich village like nobodies business. With so many false activations it’s not really a useful or reliable system - any investigation would conclude that it’s ineffectiveness could easily lead to it being ignored.

Yes and the same alarm also goes off if your close to a width restricted road so it’s not actually warning that your going under a low bridge but are in the vicinity of one which most drivers have learnt to ignore.

 

[Bovverboy]

(Quote) The driver of the Bee Network bus which collided with a aqueduct bridge on Barton Lane in Eccles, Salford, has since been arrested on suspicion of causing serious injury by careless driving.

So no doubt the driver will get the blame for something which was inevitably going to happen again sooner or later.

People don't learn from history, do they? If I remember correctly, the sequence of bridge strikes on the old 22 service came about because some journeys were diverted under the bridge, some weren't, but only those journeys which were scheduled to pass under the bridge were booked for saloons. Drivers kept forgetting which variation they were on, with predictable results. Now we have quite distinct services, one goes under the bridge, one doesn't - but both use the same pool of drivers.
I'm not sure that diverting services away from the bridge is really necessary - I mean, the buses which collide with the bridge aren't those which are scheduled to pass under it.

 

[Leyland Bus]

(Quote) The driver of the Bee Network bus which collided with a aqueduct bridge on Barton Lane in Eccles, Salford, has since been arrested on suspicion of causing serious injury by careless driving.

So no doubt the driver will get the blame for something which was inevitably going to happen again sooner or later.

People don't learn from history, do they? If I remember correctly, the sequence of bridge strikes on the old 22 service came about because some journeys were diverted under the bridge, some weren't, but only those journeys which were scheduled to pass under the bridge were booked for saloons. Drivers kept forgetting which variation they were on, with predictable results. Now we have quite distinct services, one goes under the bridge, one doesn't - but both use the same pool of drivers.
I'm not sure that diverting services away from the bridge is really necessary - I mean, the buses which collide with the bridge aren't those which are scheduled to pass under it.

I'm really sorry but that is just utter nonsense!

So no doubt the driver will get the blame

Yes, the driver will get the blame, because it was his fault. No matter which way you want to cut it, no one forced him to do it. Despite the many reasons surrounding it, he made an error of judgement and he is to blame, he should not have gone that way, end of. He has total responsibility.

I'm not sure that diverting services away from the bridge is really necessary - I mean, the buses which collide with the bridge aren't those which are scheduled to pass under it.

No, they aren't scheduled to pass under it but they're going under it because some services are scheduled to go that way. Remove bus routes that go under the bridge and no one should go under the bridge. The common denominator is the bridge, so mitigate the risk by taking it out of the equation. (You can never completely stop it happening unless theres a width restriction fitted but reduce the risk accordingly).