TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[py_megapixel]

Single-deck BZL spotted in the centre of Chorlton earlier with a route learning message on the destination boards. Didn't get the reg/fleet number, sorry.

 

[Class 466]

Single-deck BZL spotted in the centre of Chorlton earlier with a route learning message on the destination boards. Didn't get the reg/fleet number, sorry.

That’ll be one of the Longer ones for the 150

 

[Leedsbusman]

The national regulations don't apply to school services but I don't know what TfGM might stipulate on top of them. (For example, I know TfGM is specifying additional displays for visibility from rear-facing wheelchair spaces even on buses where the regulations don't require them)

To be pedantic ‘closed door’ school buses are out of scope. Those registered as open to the public will be in scope. Pre franchising TFGM schools were all open to the public, I don’t know if that remains the case now.

 

[mangad]

To be pedantic ‘closed door’ school buses are out of scope. Those registered as open to the public will be in scope. Pre franchising TFGM schools were all open to the public, I don’t know if that remains the case now.

According to the TfGM website:

All school bus services operate as local bus services. This means that they are open for everyone to use.

Most of the time services are not used by anyone other than students, but it is possible.

 

[mayneway]

I've heard that 2 are being used as a trial, and if its deemed successful then 12 (66071-66082) have already been allocated from TfGM

There’s only 7 maybe 8 freebus boards though so unless they have 4 as spares or use them on other services I can’t see them all ending up for the freebus.

Then there’s the issue of charging them as there’s still no operational chargers at Queens Road. Can’t see stagecoach being happy with driving 12 buses to Oldham every night for charging then bringing them back in the morning.

 

[py_megapixel]

To be pedantic ‘closed door’ school buses are out of scope. Those registered as open to the public will be in scope. Pre franchising TFGM schools were all open to the public, I don’t know if that remains the case now

Regardless of how pedantic, an important distinction for this discussion so thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==

There’s only 7 maybe 8 freebus boards though so unless they have 4 as spares or use them on other services I can’t see them all ending up for the freebus.

Then there’s the issue of charging them as there’s still no operational chargers at Queens Road. Can’t see stagecoach being happy with driving 12 buses to Oldham every night for charging then bringing them back in the morning.

The freebus routes are short with a lot of low speed running, which EVs do well at in efficiency terms. It seems not totally inconceivable that a modern electric bus could last 2 days on freebus from a relatively short session of charging. If so, you could split your fleet of 12 into groups of 4 - on any given day one group takes it in turns with the charger on Piccadilly station approach while the other two run the service, rotating each day. That way 8 buses are always available for service. I have no idea whether that is actually workable or not.

Of course another solution to all of this is to move the freebus to Hyde Road, if capacity is available.

That’ll be one of the Longer ones for the 150

Ah, are there other orders for BZLs beyond the ones originally ordered ages ago for Stagecoach at Stockport? I wasn't aware of that.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Regardless of how pedantic, an important distinction for this discussion so thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2025 ==


The freebus routes are short with a lot of low speed running, which EVs do well at in efficiency terms. It seems not totally inconceivable that a modern electric bus could last 2 days on freebus from a relatively short session of charging. If so, you could split your fleet of 12 into groups of 4 - on any given day one group takes it in turns with the charger on Piccadilly station approach while the other two run the service, rotating each day. That way 8 buses are always available for service. I have no idea whether that is actually workable or not.

Of course another solution to all of this is to move the freebus to Hyde Road, if capacity is available.


Ah, are there other orders for BZLs beyond the ones originally ordered ages ago for Stagecoach at Stockport? I wasn't aware of that.

Are there not still chargers at Piccadilly from when the Freebus used some electric Versas

 

[py_megapixel]

Are there not still chargers at Piccadilly from when the Freebus used some electric Versas

Yes indeed, that's what I was referring to when I suggested charging on the station approach. I can't remember how many chargers there are though - there were only a couple of the electric Optares; most of the service was still run with the hybrid ones which of course didn't need the chargers.

 

[mayneway]

Are there not still chargers at Piccadilly from when the Freebus used some electric Versas

The chargers on the approach became very unreliable in the final few months before the Versa’s were withdrawn and at the moment the freebus isn’t actually using the approach.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2025 ==

The freebus routes are short with a lot of low speed running, which EVs do well at in efficiency terms. It seems not totally inconceivable that a modern electric bus could last 2 days on freebus from a relatively short session of charging. If so, you could split your fleet of 12 into groups of 4 - on any given day one group takes it in turns with the charger on Piccadilly station approach while the other two run the service, rotating each day. That way 8 buses are always available for service. I have no idea whether that is actually workable or not.

Of course another solution to all of this is to move the freebus to Hyde Road, if capacity is available.

Sounds good in theory but given TFGM’s stance on spare vehicles I just can’t see it happening.

The original plan was to move the Freebus to Middleton as that will soon be fully electric, but because there’s a dedicated rosta of drivers who solely drive the free bus the union were dead against it.

 

[M60lad]

Yes due to the current Metrolink track works all Freebuses are unable to access the approach, I think other bus services are also affected by this as well.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Ah, are there other orders for BZLs beyond the ones originally ordered ages ago for Stagecoach at Stockport? I wasn't aware of that.

Those for the 150 are from that original order (there were 20 single decks) - from memory Metroline have VMS361-66 and more recently allocated VMS664-670, with Stagecoach having 76101-04. There are three as yet unallocated. 66071-82 at Stagecoach are the shorter versions that were an additional order.

Other than 66071/74 this week none have entered service, although it appears those for the 150 are imminent.

 

[M60lad]

Interesting workings from Oldham Depot this afternoon caused by various services running late due to extra traffic caused by Oasis Concert at Heaton Park saw E300s running on services they very rarely see service on these days:

27938 on 59
27942 on 17 & 409
27943 on 59
27947 on 59

The above was probably caused by the original vehicles that were on the duties being stuck in/around Manchester as from what I heard drivers were coming off duties up-to an hour late this afternoon so obviously these and maybe other vehicles were being used to keep services running.

 

[W176 XMA]

Does anyone know what happened to the Bee Network E100s that were delivered a few months ago? Can't remember how many there were or who they were for but none have appeared in service.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Does anyone know what happened to the Bee Network E100s that were delivered a few months ago? Can't remember how many there were or who they were for but none have appeared in service.

All 4 are sat at Wigan Depot and have been for ages. Again, as with the single deck BZLs, the lack of operational charging infrastructure at their intended depots is delaying entry to service.

 

[W176 XMA]

All 4 are sat at Wigan Depot and have been for ages. Again, as with the single deck BZLs, the lack of operational charging infrastructure at their intended depots is delaying entry to service.

Many thanks, where are they intended for please?

 

[MCRTransitYT]

Many thanks, where are they intended for please?

Queens Road 475 477 487

 

[Worm]

I'm on an E400H TEH119 as I write and is has been retrofitted with an internal PIS display but is not in use.

 

[Class 466]

I'm on an E400H TEH119 as I write and is has been retrofitted with an internal PIS display but is not in use.

that's from when it was with Stagecoach Yorkshire

 

[py_megapixel]

that's from when it was with Stagecoach Yorkshire

Even then it rarely worked. It's only programmed for one route, not associated with the exterior destination equipment or the ticket machine (so often didn't get set up by the driver), and also seemed to have a problem where it would fail to boot properly and just sit showing black text on a white background.

Almost certainly that system will be replaced if the TEHs are hanging around in Manchester for much longer.

 

[Worm]

that's from when it was with Stagecoach Yorkshire

I see, it looked fairly recent but of course not original.

 

[M60lad]

Probably just like the ones fitted to Stagecoach Manchester MMC400s think they only worked when they were on 192s, never seen them work on any other routes and now they've been transferred to Bee Network Depots most just show Date and Time with only the odd couple having reprogrammed to show next stop information.

 

[Class 466]

Probably just like the ones fitted to Stagecoach Manchester MMC400s think they only worked when they were on 192s, never seen them work on any other routes and now they've been transferred to Bee Network Depots most just show Date and Time with only the odd couple having reprogrammed to show next stop information.

11254-71 & 11504-529 all have working Next Stop announcements now and have had for a while now

 

[MCRTransitYT]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=734788739201047&locale=en_GB nice to see Diamond getting even more new buses, being in tested in Darwen today

 

[Class 466]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=734788739201047&locale=en_GB nice to see Diamond getting even more new buses, being in tested in Darwen today

Won't rush to celebrate more Stratas

 

[py_megapixel]

Won't rush to celebrate more Stratas

What's wrong with them exactly? Clearly they're quite different from the gigantic things that spend every day barrelling up and down the 192, but they're designed and built for a rather different job, and when viewed in context they seem to be decent enough little buses.

 

[MCRTransitYT]

What's wrong with them exactly? Clearly they're quite different from the gigantic things that spend every day barrelling up and down the 192, but they're designed and built for a rather different job, and when viewed in context they seem to be decent enough little buses.

People don't enjoy the ride on them because they don't have van suspension and chassis so a lot more bumpy but what can you really expect from a conversion

 

[Simon75]

People don't enjoy the ride on them because they don't have van suspension and chassis so a lot more bumpy but what can you really expect from a conversion

When Arrive had the 17 plate Mellors in Macclesfield/Northwich they were still not comfortable, especially longer distance , especially over speed humps !

 

[Bovverboy]

Are any Bee Network routes currently run from more than one depot, or even by more than one operator?

 

[Class 466]

Are any Bee Network routes currently run from more than one depot, or even by more than one operator?

Nope, definitely all single operator per route and I believe everything is assigned one depot.

 

[mayneway]

Nope, definitely all single operator per route and I believe everything is assigned one depot.

At the moment yes but I believe from September night buses are returning on 17/17a and 135. The 17 is currently run by Oldham depot but the night service will be operated by Queens road.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2025 ==

What's wrong with them exactly? Clearly they're quite different from the gigantic things that spend every day barrelling up and down the 192, but they're designed and built for a rather different job, and when viewed in context they seem to be decent enough little buses.

Dogged with issues sadly. Suspension is terribly bouncy. Long running issues with brakes, Abs, gearbox’s, doors - the list is endless. Both Firsts and Stagecoach’s have been back and forth to Mellor and Mercedes countless times.