Stupid questions from passengers

[Taunton]

Happens among the general populace and the "cognoscenti" here.

At university in Edinburgh, Scotland, 1977, I met an exchange student, she had just arrived from Los Angeles via London. First conversation :

"How did you get here from London?".
"Oh, the express train. It took a while. 10 o'clock from London, it's 7 and a half hours."
"Whatever happened. Did it break down? Normally it's 5 and a half hours".
"No, 7 and a half is the regular one".
"Well, 5 hours and 43 minutes actually" (Deltic-hauled Flying Scotsman that year).
"No, you're WRONG".

And we were together for years afterwards . Nobody who later heard this story could understand how I managed not to instantly walk off, grossly insulted.

 

[YorksLad12]

My work uniform (not transport, blue short sleeved shirt, sweatshirt on top in the winter, both with company logos clearly on them) has frequently caused issues.

An old lady got huffy because I didn't know all the bus times (I don't think my uniform looks anything like that of Plymouth Citybus)

I've been asked more times than I care to count for train info in the First Great Western era. Most were slightly embarrassed when I pointed out I worked in Healthcare, not on the railway, but some were rather rude.

I can't go in to Tesco in my uniform, it's not worth the hassle.

I don't work for the railways, and don't behave (I think) or dress in any way that suggests "staff". However, I am surprised how often, when waiting for a train, I am approached by a passenger asking "is this the platform for...?" or "is this the train to...?"

Perhaps it's just the grey hair....

I'm one of those annoying people that will stop and ask people looking at maps and/or mobile phones in the centre of Leeds if they're lost. Can't help it, and I usually know the answer anyway.

Earlier this year there was minor disruption at Sheffield while a colleague and I were on our way to Barnsley. A couple of people were thinking of boarding the stopper on an adjacent platform. I suggested waiting for the delayed semi-fast, as it would leave first. "Do you work here?" one of them asked "No," said my colleague, "he's just an enthusiast...".

Best/funniest moment was decades ago, at Kings Cross. I was on P8, just out of the gents, when a little old lady asked me the way to P9; then realised I didn't work there. I was wearing a mid-length wool and cashmere blend overcoat; GNER staff had similar, but full-length, overcoats. The route from P8 to P9 was easy enough to point out though, in those days. But, like many others, I too have that type of face that people like to approach and asked questions of... I'd rather they asked than lived in ignorance!

 

[TreacleMiller]

Perhaps train operators should include some more time in their training of staff who have contact with customers on exactly where these third party apps get their data from. Then again, it wouldn't make them look very good.

Is this a serious comment? Is there anything else they should be trained on?

Pulling off published timetables doesn't account for changes, disruption, set swaps etc. It never is real time. The overwhelming majority of passangers don't ussle RTT (often wrong) or Traksy so I'm not sure there's any reason for staff to be trained on items nothing to with them, their employer etc.

Some apps are ALWAYS wrong too.

I had someone knock on a cab door within seconds of arriving into KX asking why they couldn't buy a ticket for a train on the Trainline app. Walked passed the information desk, the screens, the barriers and half a dozen platform staff to wonder down a random platform to knock on a cab door and ask for help. There's no helping those type of people.

 

[AverageJoe]

Pax (who got off the train when I was changing ends at a destination in the East Midlands where lots of people speak with Scottish accents): “When does this train get to Luton Airport”?

Me: “It was the first station after we left London, didn’t you notice?”

Pax: “No, I thought it was the last station”.

Me: “Well we’re going back there now so you’d better get back on. We will be there in an hour.”

Pax: “I’m going to miss my flight now”.

I didn’t really know how to respond to that!

It’s ok, he would have gone to the wrong gate anyway.

 

[AM9]

Are you thinking Colchester 4 and Morecambe 2 (could be a football match!)? I wouldn't count Colchester as one as even though there are buffers, it's still a through platform. Maybe 5 or similar platforms if they've arrived off another service and not realised the train they're boarding is in a bay. Morecambe maybe, given the reasonably long headhunt, but then you're not directly looking at buffers, so question would maybe be reasonable, though you can see them coming into the station on foot. Liskeard 3? No. Daft question. Buffers are right there.

My mistake, yes it should be COL P5 where the Clacton/Walton shuttles depart from. I was alluding to the reversal at St Botolphs meaning that the optimum side or position changes for most of journeys beyond say - Wivenhoe.
Similarly at Heysham, a passenger might want to be on a particular side, only to be reversed at Morecambe for the rest of the journey.

 

[trainophile]

Again not rail, but I was just reading some of the questions people post about individual hotels on Booking.com, and for one place not one but two people had asked "is the attic room on the ground floor?" To be fair they might have been from overseas and not familiar with the language.

I'm guessing @Henffordd originates from the same place as me, and might be referring to getting on the Hereford train at New Street, which I do frequently. About one in every two or three trips someone will board and ask the carriage I'm in "is this the Hereford train?", despite the overhead display panels clearly showing it is. Perhaps it's because there's often a train on the adjacent platform 11B so they want to make sure, but it's such a frequent question and they can't all be non-regular travellers.

 

[Adam Williams]

Is this a serious comment?

Yes, it's a serious comment.

A minority of frontline staff have a bad rep for saying completely wrong things about third party retailers based upon a completely incorrect understanding of how these systems work. I've heard so much nonsense from "Oh, Trainline sell tickets for trains that don't exist" to "The tickets that are sold are completely invalid". For a retail channel powering something like 86% of sales, this is a ridiculous attitude to have.

Is there anything else they should be trained on?

For some of the gateline staff, I'd go with "the basics of ticketing and ticket restrictions" as well, since it's all too often knowledge that is not present.

I'm not sure there's any reason for staff to be trained on items nothing to with them, their employer etc.

This comment just illustrates my point completely. Where do you think the real-time data powering apps like Trainline and other retailers comes from?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I disagree as it makes my job in the Ticket Office much harder-

Why can't some people simply ask "when's the next train to (their destination)?"

Asking for the next train to x and y is needless in my opinion.

As you were replying to post #130...

Obviously you've never had to interact with a deaf or hard of hearing person or someone with an auditory processing disorder or dyslexia

 

[voyagerdude220]

As you were replying to post #130...

Obviously you've never had to interact with a deaf or hard of hearing person or someone with an auditory processing disorder or dyslexia

I don't see how that's relevant?
Of course I have..

 

[43066]

As you were replying to post #130...

Obviously you've never had to interact with a deaf or hard of hearing person or someone with an auditory processing disorder or dyslexia

Maybe consider the light hearted spirit of the thread?!

 

[TreacleMiller]

Yes, it's a serious comment.

A minority of frontline staff have a bad rep for saying completely wrong things about third party retailers based upon a completely incorrect understanding of how these systems work. I've heard so much nonsense from "Oh, Trainline sell tickets for trains that don't exist" to "The tickets that are sold are completely invalid". For a retail channel powering something like 86% of sales, this is a ridiculous attitude to have.



For some of the gateline staff, I'd go with "the basics of ticketing and ticket restrictions" as well, since it's all too often knowledge that is not present.




This comment just illustrates my point completely. Where do you think the real-time data powering apps like Trainline and other retailers comes from?

I know exactly where they are coming from.

The issue is, whilst they are great and usually accurate for timing updates - they are shockingly bad for platform updates etc. The number of times I've come across people sat on an empty train with no headcode published to anything is astonishing.

"Where are you going"

"I'm going to Cambridge"

"This train isn't going to Cambridge, and our company doesn't serve it"

"Yes you are! Look!". - proceeds show me a rail app with clearly incorrect info on.

How is my training / staff training going to overcome that?

 

[Adam Williams]

shockingly bad for platform updates etc

But this all comes from Darwin, which is the train operators' (collective) responsibility. It's not really in any individual app developer's gift to make this any better if they are using Darwin.

What you could tell customers is "Sorry, sometimes the rail industry doesn't send out platform (changes) properly, it's best not to take it as gospel". Sometimes the root cause is a "Oh, the customer information screens are out-of-sync/disconnected with the rest of the real-time feeds". I'm not proposing going into that much detail, but understanding where these sorts of limitations come from would not be a bad thing.

What the customers are trying to do (rely on the information that's marketed as being the "single source of truth") is not unreasonable. Blaming the app that they are using when it's a problem of the industry's making is what I take issue with.

 

[TreacleMiller]

But this all comes from Darwin, which is the train operators' (collective) responsibility. It's not really in any individual app developer's gift to make this any better if they are using Darwin.

What you could tell customers is "Sorry, sometimes the rail industry doesn't send out platform (changes) properly, it's best not to take it as gospel". Sometimes the root cause is a "Oh, the customer information screens are out-of-sync/disconnected with the rest of the real-time feeds". I'm not proposing going into that much detail, but understanding where these sorts of limitations come from would not be a bad thing.

What the customers are trying to do (rely on the information that's marketed as being the "single source of truth") is not unreasonable. Blaming the app that they are using when it's a problem of the industry's making is what I take issue with.

That's a reasonable argument.

However, that's where I suspected we would part ways on opinion. Publishers of information have a duty to ensure it's accurate. There are dozens of publishers, some selling tickets and others don't. If I'm seeing Darwin giving correct information and a passanger doesn't receive it through their app, I don't think that is the responsibility of the rail industry.

Printing "estimates" platform numbers on digital tickets withthout making clear its an estimateleads to people thinking they are gospel. They aren't. I forget the app that does this.

Given the wide number of apps available for ticketing, how many do you train staff on? Do you train them everytime that apps UI changes? Or brand changes?

I use Flight Radar for instance when tracking outbound flights of the aircraft I'll catch. I'm not against third party tracking.

However the sheer number of ticket companies now is a problem - Not helped my the national rail one being shocking.

 

[Romsey]

I do agree with a poster up thread about attracting enquiries.
Quite a few times in Switzerland or Austria we have been asked by other travellers quite basic travel questions and occasionally ones which would baffle resident staff.
Why me? I'm not wearing railway uniform, I'm not taking particular interest in the train working, I'm not photographing trains.

Great fun explaining rail replacement buses between Davos and Filisur to an Italian family when the only common language was a smattering of German. They gave up and travelled back towards Klosters. They missed a great ride along the crest of the Landwasser valley with superb views to the higher peaks with a post bus driver who did a commentry of the scenery (and other drivers) in German Romansch and Engish

 

[Horizon22]

My ones have tended to be people arguing about trains at terminals where there’s been a (very common) platform change to the departure well in advance turn up at a completely empty platform and ask where the train is having walked through a Gateline and a blank next train indicator…

“It’s on platform 1 and it departs on 5 minutes”
“But my phone [points at Google Maps] says it’s on Platform 5”
“There is no train here, it’s definitely platform 1
“But my phone says this platform so where is the train?”
“Madam by all means wait here on this empty platform but I’m telling you, that you will miss your train if you do”
“You can’t do anything right”
“Ok, well have a nice day and your service is on Platform 1”.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2024 ==

But this all comes from Darwin, which is the train operators' (collective) responsibility. It's not really in any individual app developer's gift to make this any better if they are using Darwin.

What you could tell customers is "Sorry, sometimes the rail industry doesn't send out platform (changes) properly, it's best not to take it as gospel". Sometimes the root cause is a "Oh, the customer information screens are out-of-sync/disconnected with the rest of the real-time feeds". I'm not proposing going into that much detail, but understanding where these sorts of limitations come from would not be a bad thing.

What the customers are trying to do (rely on the information that's marketed as being the "single source of truth") is not unreasonable. Blaming the app that they are using when it's a problem of the industry's making is what I take issue with.

No some systems do not update with live Darwin information accurately and are incorrect. Google Maps is one rail staff will constantly be arguing with - see my anecdote above. Or people misreading Trainline’s “estimated” wording. Drawing off the base timetable is all well and good until there’s even a hint of disruption, which is people will double check into which makes it even worse.

Sometimes there’s a lag of information, and sometimes the signaller tells a station who do not have control of the CIS without telling TOC control who are none the wiser, sometimes it’s in disruption and there’s a huge workload and things get missed but on some occasions the apps are unclear or downright misleading.

 

[Adam Williams]

No some systems do not update with live Darwin information accurately and are incorrect. Google Maps is one rail staff will constantly be arguing with - see my anecdote above. Or people misreading Trainline’s “estimated” wording.

Google Maps is a bit of an outlier, I'd suggest. It's just unfortunate it's a popular as it is.

I don't believe it even interprets and takes into account minimum connection times, let alone tries to use the real-time information from Darwin. Just does its own thing.

Retail apps should be using Darwin though, it's an accreditation requirement, if they choose to present live train times.

 

[TreacleMiller]

Google Maps is a bit of an outlier, I'd suggest. It's just unfortunate it's a popular as it is.

I don't believe it even interprets and takes into account minimum connection times, let alone tries to use the real-time information from Darwin. Just does its own thing.

Retail apps should be using Darwin though, it's an accreditation requirement, if they choose to present live train times.

That was my point previously. Times are often very accurate. Platforming, rarely is.

At busy terminal stations that's a big cause of people missing services.

 

[Horizon22]

Google Maps is a bit of an outlier, I'd suggest. It's just unfortunate it's a popular as it is.

I don't believe it even interprets and takes into account minimum connection times, let alone tries to use the real-time information from Darwin. Just does its own thing.

Retail apps should be using Darwin though, it's an accreditation requirement, if they choose to present live train times.

Yes, but same you say it is a very popular system. Citymapper also has a few quirks but it’s not as bad.

Trainline has a weird UI interface sometimes for delays/cancellations where one leg just disappears but isn’t awful.

The issue is when someone has booked well in advance and a service has been removed from the timetable - that of course is a TOC issue and not Trainline’s but station staff bare the brunt of the issue and it’s not the easiest to explain to someone who has missed a train that wasn’t booked to run that day.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I don't believe it even interprets and takes into account minimum connection times,

it absolutely doesn't and I love it for it
makes London so much easier to plan through when it doesn't try to add 15 minutes at Liverpool Street and Euston when I only need 3 and 5.

 

[Adam Williams]

That was my point previously. Times are often very accurate. Platforming, rarely is.

At busy terminal stations that's a big cause of people missing services.

To be clear though, the platforms will also come from Darwin, not just the times, if published.
If Trainline is falling back to Est. platforms from the timetable, there's probably a reason they're needing to do that.

I completely agree with your earlier point by the way, where you said that the apps a responsible if the data was broadcast and they failed to pick it up/adjust to the new information accordingly. There certainly needs to be the best possible attempt made to communicate the most up-to-date information that can be communicated. If that isn't done, it's the app publisher's fault.

As an example though: There was quite a long period at the back end of last year where Kings Cross just wouldn't communicate any platform information at all via the Darwin data feeds and was seemingly incompatible with a specific version of Darwin. It eventually got sorted, but these are the sorts of issues we're up against. The platforms only appeared on the station CIS, they weren't even exposed via National Rail Enquiries.

it absolutely doesn't and I love it for it

Ha, I can see why people like it. I just think it should probably be opt-in functionality, so you don't end up accidentally screwing yourself out of eligibility for e.g. delay repay.

 

[Haywain]

Pax: "What times the next train to X?"
Me: "It's at xx:xx (in 55 minutes)"
Pax: "Is that the fastest train?"
Me: "Yes"
Pax: "Isn't there one sooner?"
Me: "No, that's why it's the next train."


Pax: "I want to go to X, is the train direct?"
Me: "Yes, it is. x is the 5th stop"
Pax: "Do I have to change?"
Me: "No, you look fine!"

 

[AverageJoe]

I had another today at Leeds. Was stopped by a group. As usual there is no excuse me or please or thank you, just the typical demands for information.

Walking along the bridge at the end of platform 16;

Pax: where is platform 17?
Me: go down the steps and keep walking to the end of the platform and you will see it there
Pax: what I have to walk all that way? Huff
Me: well I can’t bring it any closer to you unfortunately
Pax: ‘turns back and walks off’

I wouldn’t mind but it’s like a 100m walk, hardly a marathon, but hey it’s my fault.

 

[Southernrover]

Whilst working as a Guard on the Northern Line many many years ago… pull into Bank Station, chap standing on the platform asks if the train goes to Bank.
I gently turn him around so he is facing the large wall mounted platform sign saying BANK. I got back on the train closed the doors and departed. Not a word was exchanged and the poor chap still looked confused.

 

[Gwr12345]

Not really a question, but someone asking me for train times to book a train to get a cruise.
Them: I want to travel to Inverkeithing, I'm travelling with a friend whose already got tickets, this is the train they're booked on etc.
How long is the train?
Me: 3 hours,
Them: Ooh, I couldn't Sit next to them for that long! How much is first class?
All of this was said in the same town of voice.
They went first class and left their friend in Standard!

 

[jamesst]

Of course some passengers ask stupid questions. As I'm sure do all groups of people. To suggest that no stupid questions are asked is quite frankly ridiculous!

Agreed!
Anyone that works with the public in any capacity will at some point have a laugh at some of the things asked, it's just being human.
Some of the posters on here live in a dream world!

 

[deltic]

Not sure if the answers given in the some of posts above are jokes or not. If the latter why the sarcastic responses. Many people who don't use trains very often are stressed and when stressed we often do silly things. There is no reason for sarcasm.

 

[Haywain]

Not sure if the answers given in the some of posts above are jokes or not. If the latter why the sarcastic responses. Many people who don't use trains very often are stressed and when stressed we often do silly things. There is no reason for sarcasm.

And a little bit of humour can help them to be a bit more relaxed.

 

[Trainman40083]

I very quickly learned to hide an old purple uniform I used to wear, as whenever I was on a cross country service people would always ask me questions.

When I used to reply ‘I’m sorry, I don’t work on the train’ the main reply was ‘well why are you wearing that uniform then?’

As if XC had a monopoly on purple or something!

Bad shopping in Sainsbury's with an orange tee shirt too...I got asked all sorts. One little old lady wanted help with a frozen food cabinet. She cheerily told me that once she tried reach and nearly fell in...Another had a table.lamp.and wanted the right bulb type. I was glad when I escaped the checkout.

 

[Hadlow Road]

And our great-niece, working in a restaurant, had a customer who wanted “extra-cold” ice. No, I’m none the wiser.

 

[dangie]

Not sure if the answers given in the some of posts above are jokes or not.....

I rather think many of the 'stupid questions' on this post are either made up or exaggerated somewhat having done the rounds countless times.