Personal security on long distance trains vs aircraft

[The Ham]

That is an interesting statistic and not what I would have expected. Could you provide the source please? I will do my own research too.

2019 air passenger numbers just shy of 300 million:

UK airport passenger numbers drop 75% to 74m in 2020

Airport Operators Association says figures show the devastating impact of Covid-19 restrictions on aviation

www.theguardian.com

Number of UK rail passengers circa 1.7 billion:

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1652/table-1220-passenger-journeys.ods

 

[yorksrob]

...and because you can't bring knives on planes.

Air travel is a lot more secure and safe than rail travel.

Hijackings seem to be more common on planes though.

 

[Tallguy]

Hijackings seem to be more common on planes though.

Have you never seen the film ‘The Taking Of Pelham 123?‘

 

[yorksrob]

Have you never seen the film ‘The Taking Of Pelham 123?‘

Alas, that's not one I've seen yet !

 

[Tallguy]

Alas, that's not one I've seen yet !

Put it on your Christmas list. The original film version starring Walter Matthau is the best. Shows the New York subway at its’ grittiest.

 

[yorksrob]

Put it on your Christmas list. The original film version starring Walter Matthau is the best. Shows the New York subway at its’ grittiest.

I'll keep an eye out for it !

 

[Aaron1]

I have never experienced any crime on trains, and I feel very safe on trains, I do travel by train occasionally to football games and I like a drink on the train etc so that probably "toughens me up" if you know what I mean.

I also think the BTP are very good and have always only heard good things about them.

 

[TravelDream]

Railways are likely to have a higher rate, with everything else being equal, due the fact that there's about 5.7 times the number of rail passengers as passengers which pass through British airports.

That is an interesting statistic and not what I would have expected. Could you provide the source please? I will do my own research too.

Hardly a fair comparison as the majority of rail journeys have passengers carrying little luggage in comparison to air travel.

Data for 2019 showed 1.75 billion rail journeys in the UK vs 297 million air ones.
2020 showed a huge fall, obviously, with 0.4 billion rail journeys vs 60 million air ones.

 

[The Ham]

Hardly a fair comparison as the majority of rail journeys have passengers carrying little luggage in comparison to air travel.

Data for 2019 showed 1.75 billion rail journeys in the UK vs 297 million air ones.
2020 showed a huge fall, obviously, with 0.4 billion rail journeys vs 60 million air ones.

The point I was making was that assuming equal risk rail is going to show up as having more cases of crime and so would likely be seen as higher risk even if it wasn't.

I would however highlight that whilst more stuff is taken on an aircraft a lot is often put in the hold so a random passenger is unable to access it (unlike a train).

 

[riceuten]

There is a much higher risk of this in Germany than the UK, where no stations are gated and vagrants hanging around on stations much more common.

Possibly, but it's not a fear generally shared with other countries who have open stations and gentlemen of the road as guests.

 

[Surreyman]

I have witnessed a few individuals on trains behaving in 'strange ways' - whether this was down to mental health issues/drug use or possibly being a drug courier I can't really say - my perception I guess? I have been told by a couple of SWR guards in the last few years that they have noticed more 'crazies' travelling on trains, usually solo and sometimes very aggressive.
There is also the much talked practice of 'County lines' - I am now an old codger, so not as 'streetwise' as I used to be but my instincts still notice odd behaviour, better to be aware than ignore.
Incidentally late night trains crowded with drunken people feel a lot safer than an empty carriage in the middle of the day with a single person behaving strangely.
I definitely feel safer on planes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't entirely get the "county lines" thing. The term comes from the US where police lose their jurisdiction if they cross one so they can run away from them and get away, but that isn't true in the UK.

 

[221129]

I don't entirely get the "county lines" thing. The term comes from the US where police lose their jurisdiction if they cross one so they can run away from them and get away, but that isn't true in the UK.

That has no reference to what's being talked about here though...

In the UK Crime gangs use normally vulnerable young people to move cash and drugs across the country. Normally from the big cities (London, Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham) out to the rural counties. (Devon, Cornwall, Kent, Essex etc) almost always using the railways or coach services. And they almost always follow the same ways all the time. Hence the term County Lines. Nothing to do with the US term.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That has no reference to what's being talked about here though...

Umm, it is in reply to @Surreyman's reference to it.

 

[221129]

Umm, it is in reply to @Surreyman's reference to it.

See my explanation above. The term in this sense doesn't come from the US at all.

 

[Mally66]

Was having a discussion with some of my friends who don't travel by train often earlier. They said they prefer to make long distance trips by plane rather than rail (especially alone/if asleep) given that it feels safer in terms of personal security on a plane. Reasons cited included people being able to run off with your possessions at intermediate stops (I guess especially towards the end of an intercity service, on a flight everyone is going to the same destination usually), lower staff presence and the lack of security/ID checks with seats allocated based on that.

Had never considered this before - never had a problem with personal security on either and trains might seem slightly safer to me thinking about it now - and thought it was an interesting argument that does makes some sense. Any thoughts on this? And is there anything that should be done to make trains feel safer/more appealing to passengers who are less experienced (especially given the need for modal shift from air to rail to combat climate change) - would policies like security checks and compulsory reservation, that we might view as an inconvenience, help in this regard?

I think in this modern era most trains, if not all have live CCTV feeds to either driver or Train manager. CCTV acts as a visual deterrent to would be thieves, and the addition of a regular trolley catering service traversing through the train would also put venerable passengers minds at rest .

 

[221129]

I think in this modern era most trains, if not all have live CCTV feeds to either driver or Train manager. CCTV acts as a visual deterrent to would be thieves, and the addition of a regular trolley catering service traversing through the train would also put venerable passengers minds at rest .

Very few have that system

 

[Mally66]

Very few have that system

Many thanks for correcting me I was unaware of this