Personal security on long distance trains vs aircraft

[The Ham]

On a train you can generally move away from someone - much more difficult on a plane. While I didn't feel unsafe I have pretended to be asleep on a 3hr flight to avoid conversing with a group of drunken individuals sitting around me.

Indeed, I moved away from a group of people on a train (drinking at 09:30) who were using colourful language as I had small children with me.

That wouldn't always be so easy on an aircraft.

As to people stealing things, it's not overly likely in either setting and chances are good struggle to find out who it was on a plane with 200 people on, given that there's got to be evidence. Do they have CCTV? Even if they do, chances are any police case would involve trying to contact people spread around the world.

As such I'm not convinced that there's much difference and the risk is fairly low anyway.

 

[GodAtum]

An interesting question is would you sleep on a sleeper train if you where in a seated carriage vs a room? If I was in a seated carriage I would remain awake all night just in case I get pickpockted as I'm a heavy sleeper. If I was in a locked room I would feel much safer.

 

[londonbridge]

Had similar earlier this month on a train down to my Mum's for the weekend, 3.30pm on a Friday afternoon, group of about four or five guys drinking and using language that included racial abuse....women and kids in the carriage. Train was fairly busy, was weighing up finding another seat against asking them to tone it down or getting the guard.........I keep forgetting there's the option of texting 61016.....I suppose it depends at what point you should consider doing that, if one of them said the f word once I'd probably let it go but might look at texting if it's repeated frequently within a short period, or if they started using c word.

 

[Sm5]

The vast majority of thefts are either by baggage handling staff, or by people picking up luggage at the belt that isn't theirs. People don't whip hand luggage, in general

As a regular Africa traveller, this is a lesson learned the hard way.

It took 2-3 times, in quick succession to understand why on arrival at LHR my wheelies was constantly jemmied open and contents in a bin bag… the SAA claim number (in the 700,xxx series) spoke volumes too.

When I asked is it common, the handler said, its because your bag looks like a business traveller.. the baggage handlers think there might be jewelry, laptop etc in there.

The secret I was told was to look poor, like a back packer, and also use the cling film wrap on your luggage at JNB airport, as apparently they are openly “giving comission” to the handlers.

Since i started using older suitcases, or even my old backpack from uni days, on my Africa trips, with the cling film, all my return journeys have been trouble free.

 

[Robertj21a]

Had similar earlier this month on a train down to my Mum's for the weekend, 3.30pm on a Friday afternoon, group of about four or five guys drinking and using language that included racial abuse....women and kids in the carriage. Train was fairly busy, was weighing up finding another seat against asking them to tone it down or getting the guard.........I keep forgetting there's the option of texting 61016.....I suppose it depends at what point you should consider doing that, if one of them said the f word once I'd probably let it go but might look at texting if it's repeated frequently within a short period, or if they started using c word.

Aren't you over-reacting quite a bit ?

 

[londonbridge]

You didn’t hear the language they were using…..

 

[The Ham]

Aren't you over-reacting quite a bit ?

It depends on the frequency and type of words used.

In the example where I moved the young kids was with, we ended up near some young lads who were also drinking and using colourful language. However rather than it being one word in most sentences it one word every 5 minutes or less and so didn't bother moving again.

There was still swearing which the kids could hear, however at much lower frequencies and we were also a bit further away, so not quite so in their face.

Clearly it would be crazy to try and isolate then from everything, however some groups are more of an issue than others.

I can accept that people swear as that's just what they do as it's part of their day to day vocabulary, however racial slurs (one of the things highlighted in the post you were replying to) shouldn't be that natural and definitely shouldn't be something which is in day to day use (even if people don't like people of a different race to them).

 

[Robertj21a]

It depends on the frequency and type of words used.

In the example where I moved the young kids was with, we ended up near some young lads who were also drinking and using colourful language. However rather than it being one word in most sentences it one word every 5 minutes or less and so didn't bother moving again.

There was still swearing which the kids could hear, however at much lower frequencies and we were also a bit further away, so not quite so in their face.

Clearly it would be crazy to try and isolate then from everything, however some groups are more of an issue than others.

I can accept that people swear as that's just what they do as it's part of their day to day vocabulary, however racial slurs (one of the things highlighted in the post you were replying to) shouldn't be that natural and definitely shouldn't be something which is in day to day use (even if people don't like people of a different race to them).

I accept that and fully agree that we shouldn't readily accept any of it. However, given just how common certain words and phrases are nowadays I'm still surprised that consideration was given to using the BTP for such an issue - fair enough if any such abuse was being directed at me or my family personally - but it was a group of lads who were not directing their comments anywhere else.

 

[londonbridge]

Granted, in my case they were talking amongst themselves, however as noted there were kids in the carriage, they didn’t need to be hearing that sort of talk. Plus we know that children sometimes tend to copy what they hear, leading to another generation of people who think foul language is acceptable because that’s what they heard adults using whilst they were growing up.

As to the other point, the type of person who thinks nothing of using words that rhyme with digger and spoon in everyday life, is probably also the type of person who is more than likely to kick off and have a go at someone challenging them, hence in some cases it might be better to call in an authority figure who is better qualified and more experienced at handling these types of situations. Also as The Ham says, it would depend to a large extent on the types of words and the frequency of usage….if someone said see you next Tuesday just the once then obviously that’s not a BTP issue, but if they used it four or five times within a few minutes is when you might start weighing up whether to say something or call for assistance.

 

[al78]

Had similar earlier this month on a train down to my Mum's for the weekend, 3.30pm on a Friday afternoon, group of about four or five guys drinking and using language that included racial abuse....women and kids in the carriage. Train was fairly busy, was weighing up finding another seat against asking them to tone it down or getting the guard.........I keep forgetting there's the option of texting 61016.....I suppose it depends at what point you should consider doing that, if one of them said the f word once I'd probably let it go but might look at texting if it's repeated frequently within a short period, or if they started using c word.

I would advise against doing this if you value your health. The type of people who think racial abuse in public is acceptable will probably think that smashing someones face in who has the audacity to call them out is acceptable.

Another way of putting it, don't start anything you can't finish.

 

[TravelDream]

Just thought of this thread looking through Twitter.

Lewis Goodall who's the policy editor (whatever that is) for BBC Newsnight just had his bag stolen off a train. Cue lots of replies reporting similar incidents. It's not as unusual as some on here suggest.

''To whoever took my suitcase off the 1030 from Kings Cross I really hope you enjoy wearing my clothes.''

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1456605845807063040

 

[GRALISTAIR]

On an aircraft , if there was an altercation or other, I am sure the pilot would have no qualms about diverting the plane and making an emergency landing. Plane is safer in this aspect.

 

[The Ham]

Just thought of this thread looking through Twitter.

Lewis Goodall who's the policy editor (whatever that is) for BBC Newsnight just had his bag stolen off a train. Cue lots of replies reporting similar incidents. It's not as unusual as some on here suggest.

''To whoever took my suitcase off the 1030 from Kings Cross I really hope you enjoy wearing my clothes.''

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1456605845807063040

Given that there's getting on for 2bn trips a year made by rail, even 50,000 cases of something being stolen would be a very low rate of crime.

However 50,000 a year with people retelling stories from the last 5 years would generate a LOT of tales of it happening on (say) Twitter.

 

[TravelDream]

Given that there's getting on for 2bn trips a year made by rail, even 50,000 cases of something being stolen would be a very low rate of crime.

However 50,000 a year with people retelling stories from the last 5 years would generate a LOT of tales of it happening on (say) Twitter.

It's not the amount of crime that is important in allowing people to feel safe on trains (or anywhere else), but the perception of crime.

 

[riceuten]

My other half - and most Germans - are absolutely terrified of this. When we catch the Eurostar, she always reserves (if she can) next to the luggage rack. From what her and other Germans say, it seems the same stories are recycled over and over again. For a while in the 1990s, InterRegio (IR) trains actually had luggage lockers on them.

 

[Starmill]

On an aircraft , if there was an altercation or other, I am sure the pilot would have no qualms about diverting the plane and making an emergency landing. Plane is safer in this aspect.

Trains can and do make additional stops for the attendece of the emergency services to the train (including the local police if they're closer) if that's what's needed.

 

[riceuten]

I would imagine that the potential thief is more likely to make off with some expensive luggage, given the chance is that it will be more likely to yield something valuable and resellable.

 

[Cdd89]

The comparisons so far have discounted that you have to get to and from two airports in the first place. This is often quite far out of town on some sort of suburban rail which may be more risky than an intercity rail service where stricter ticket checks would deter many criminals.

 

[wellhouse]

The comparisons so far have discounted that you have to get to and from two airports in the first place. This is often quite far out of town on some sort of suburban rail which may be more risky than an intercity rail service where stricter ticket checks would deter many criminals.

In a career that involved sending TV crews throughout the UK and around the world by all modes of transport, I did not suffer a major volume of thefts, but most of those that did occur were from unattended road vehicles.

The second most common losses arose from sneak thieves, such as pickpockets, typically in airport terminals when passengers were checking in or awaiting departure. Two incidents that stand out were the theft of a briefcase from a luggage trolley while the passengeres were in the check-in queue, and a video camera taken from beneath his chair while a crew member was having a coffee in the departure lounge.

There was the odd occasion of misdirected checked baggage which always turned up eventually, and the one and only loss involving rail was a Red Star consignment of film rushes that mysteriously disappeared en route, only to be discovered some days later by the trackside.

I recall one episode (not work-related) when a thief made off at Harpenden with a sleeping passenger's coat, but another alert passenger had spotted him eyeing it up, and recovered it before the thief had even made it to the door.

 

[Master29]

Has there been a single recorded event in history (in the UK) where this has happened? And before you bring it up, no, none of the three Underground bombs on 7/7 involved either the driver’s cab or long distance trains.

Indeed, added to the fact it is far more likely you'd be attacked by some other nutjob or juicehead for whatever reason with suicide bombing a very unlikely event but I suppose media influence plays a part here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My other half - and most Germans - are absolutely terrified of this. When we catch the Eurostar, she always reserves (if she can) next to the luggage rack. From what her and other Germans say, it seems the same stories are recycled over and over again. For a while in the 1990s, InterRegio (IR) trains actually had luggage lockers on them.

There is a much higher risk of this in Germany than the UK, where no stations are gated and vagrants hanging around on stations much more common.

 

[A Challenge]

One of my friends I met for the first time in a while this weekend commented that last month he'd had someone who he said had been drinking quite a bit whilst on the train attempt to steal the USB out his computer on an LNER service on the northern ECML - there wasn't anything important on it, just copies of music files, and the thief was unsuccessful in making off with it, but it seems a strange story.

 

[Tallguy]

In the past I have secured my luggage in the rack with a padlock and chain. Simple, effective but doesn’t stop someone forcing the zip open etc

 

[mmh]

In the past I have secured my luggage in the rack with a padlock and chain. Simple, effective but doesn’t stop someone forcing the zip open etc

I can understand the reasoning, but this could be remarkably anti-social, albeit completely unintentionally. Imagine the scenario where bags need to be removed / moved around after yours has been put there. Based on how many times I've had to do that to other luggage and been asked if luggage was mine to move it, I'd imagine it happens on even a semi-busy train more often than not.

 

[Jim the Jim]

On an aircraft , if there was an altercation or other, I am sure the pilot would have no qualms about diverting the plane and making an emergency landing. Plane is safer in this aspect.

This isn't much use halfway across the Atlantic. And presumably even over land emergency landings take a bit of time to sort out and perform. Whereas most trains can generally stop somewhere, and in a real emergency situation the only delay is the time taken to apply the brakes.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I have never had any trouble despite sleeping regularly on train journeys everywhere I have ever been!

I am aware of the danger and generally always keep luggage as close as possible and in view. I know Germany has a reputation but personally I've never had an issue there.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

This isn't much use halfway across the Atlantic. And presumably even over land emergency landings take a bit of time to sort out and perform. Whereas most trains can generally stop somewhere, and in a real emergency situation the only delay is the time taken to apply the brakes.

When was the last time there was a stabbing on a scheduled flight?

When was the last time there was a stabbing on a train?

 

[The Ham]

When was the last time there was a stabbing on a scheduled flight?

When was the last time there was a stabbing on a train?

Railways are likely to have a higher rate, with everything else being equal, due the fact that there's about 5.7 times the number of rail passengers as passengers which pass through British airports.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

Railways are likely to have a higher rate, with everything else being equal, due the fact that there's about 5.7 times the number of rail passengers as passengers which pass through British airports.

...and because you can't bring knives on planes.

Air travel is a lot more secure and safe than rail travel.

 

[Facing Back]

Railways are likely to have a higher rate, with everything else being equal, due the fact that there's about 5.7 times the number of rail passengers as passengers which pass through British airports.

That is an interesting statistic and not what I would have expected. Could you provide the source please? I will do my own research too.