Personal security on long distance trains vs aircraft

[Bletchleyite]

Why do some people persist in putting valuables in their back pockets?!

The one time I ever did that when I sat on my wallet it cracked my debit card in half. I've never done it since and I don't get why anyone does!

 

[LowLevel]

There was an issue for a while with bag thieves operating between St Pancras - Luton stations and Bedford, I know BTP were very much onto them.

For the most part luggage theft is pretty unusual on the train though.

 

[gg1]

Personally, I would be as worried about baggage control whipping my luggage as some lightfingered train luggage thief

When flying I'm far more concerned about me and my luggage ending up on different planes which balances out the higher risk of theft on a train.

On a train you can generally move away from someone - much more difficult on a plane. While I didn't feel unsafe I have pretended to be asleep on a 3hr flight to avoid conversing with a group of drunken individuals sitting around me.

...which is the primary reason I'm opposed to the concept of compulsory seat reservations on trains and would consider them a strong incentive to drive instead.

 

[TravelDream]

The difference with flying is that you know there will be a constant staff presence and that everyone onboard has bought a named ticket and had their ID checked so are known.
It's much easier for a thief to go back and fore from Paddington to Reading or Liverpool Street to Stansted than fly from London to Barcelona and back.
That's not to say mid-air thefts don't happen though. This BBC article links to several others.

Hong Kong: Passenger 'loses $260,000 in mid-air theft'

A man tells police he lost HK$2m ($257,700; £175,500) in cash and valuables from his hand luggage, during a flight into Hong Kong.

www.bbc.co.uk

For those who say there is nowhere to retreat to, there certainly is. You can head straight to the galley and chat with the crew. Where can you go on a 10pm 2-car Sprinter? Flights don't often go out 100% absolutely full. There's usually a seat somewhere you can move to.


I must say that I do feel slightly concerned when carrying luggage on trains. Wherever possible, I'd try to get a seat with a direct view/ next to the luggage rack if I have a large piece of luggage. On a commuter style service with frequent stops, I'd keep it by my side at all times. Maybe that's over-cautious, but I can't imagine anything worse that starting a trip with all your things stolen.

 

[Ianigsy]

It's something that gets me about people who spend a fortune on Louis Vuitton and similar designer bags - when your suitcase alone can be worth a couple of grand, it's practically inviting somebody to steal it from the moment you set off.

 

[riceuten]

The difference with flying is that you know there will be a constant staff presence and that everyone onboard has bought a named ticket and had their ID checked so are known.

The vast majority of thefts are either by baggage handling staff, or by people picking up luggage at the belt that isn't theirs. People don't whip hand luggage, in general

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

On flights there are enough crew onboard that if you were to have any serious problem with another passenger you can usually find help and support quite fast.

On a train, even a long distance one, aside from the driver who is obviously unable to intervene there may only be one or two people. Because of covid the guard is often locked away in the back cab too. If you're being harassed or having problems often it's very hard to get help.

 

[riceuten]

On flights there are enough crew onboard that if you were to have any serious problem with another passenger you can usually find help and support quite fast.

On a train, even a long distance one, aside from the driver who is obviously unable to intervene there may only be one or two people. Because of covid the guard is often locked away in the back cab too. If you're being harassed or having problems often it's very hard to get help.

Not entirely sure what this has to do with luggage

There seem to be quite a few transport phobic people here who seem to assume that theft never seems to occur on planes, or (heaven forfend) from cars

 

[Journeyman]

Some people really overthink things.

Very, very easy thing for a man to say.

Far less so if you happen not to be a man.

 

[6Gman]

There was an issue for a while with bag thieves operating between St Pancras - Luton stations and Bedford, I know BTP were very much onto them.

For the most part luggage theft is pretty unusual on the train though.

The only thing in my case will be clothing and odds and ends (of little value, and easy to replace).

Anyone who stole it would be mighty disappointed!

 

[Merseysider]

Very, very easy thing for a man to say.

Far less so if you happen not to be a man.

Agreed. There are trains my female friends wouldn’t dream of travelling alone on, regardless of whether or not we as men would be comfortable, it’s a valid POV.

 

[Journeyman]

Agreed. There are trains my female friends wouldn’t dream of travelling alone on, regardless of whether or not we as men would be comfortable, it’s a valid POV.

Most of my female friends won't go out alone after dark.

 

[dk1]

There was an issue for a while with bag thieves operating between St Pancras - Luton stations and Bedford, I know BTP were very much onto them.

For the most part luggage theft is pretty unusual on the train though.

It used to happen a few years ago on Norwich IC services between Liverpool St & Stratford although I've not heard of any issues for years now.

 

[Journeyman]

The only thing in my case will be clothing and odds and ends (of little value, and easy to replace).

Anyone who stole it would be mighty disappointed!

A friend of mine got her bag nicked on a train once. Although it only contained dirty washing, she lost a significant chunk of her wardrobe, and it was enormously inconvenient.

 

[Robertj21a]

Is there a real problem of theft/assaults on trains ?

 

[yorksrob]

I must admit, the last time I was on a train with real bother, it was the two p***ed up lasses who were having the loud argument. One of them tried to glass a bystander with a bottle.

 

[Journeyman]

Is there a real problem of theft/assaults on trains ?

Yes, that disproportionately affects women.

 

[dk1]

Is there a real problem of theft/assaults on trains ?

Having worked on long distance trains for well over 20 years I could count the occasions on one hand with fingers to spare. Its usually when drink is involved from all involved. Intercity trains are a very very safe form of transport.

 

[185143]

I must admit, the last time I was on a train with real bother, it was the two p***ed up lasses who were having the loud argument. One of them tried to glass a bystander with a bottle.

Thinking about it last time I was on a train and it kicked off, it was two drunk women. One of them had gone to the bog and was that drunk she could barely even shut the door never mind lock it. The other (in a much better state) passenger arrived with the same intention and seeing it was unlocked, opened the door. An aggressive argument promptly followed but fortunately two Travelsafe Officers in the next carriage were able to intervene before it got physical, which I'm certain it would have done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thinking about it last time I was on a train and it kicked off, it was two drunk women. One of them had gone to the bog and was that drunk she could barely even shut the door never mind lock it. The other (in a much better state) passenger arrived with the same intention and seeing it was unlocked, opened the door. An aggressive argument promptly followed but fortunately two Travelsafe Officers in the next carriage were able to intervene before it got physical, which I'm certain it would have done.

Certainly there's little as badly behaved and unpleasant as some hen parties, but the "male advantage" is that most men will not feel physically threatened by this (not least because it is physically impossible for a biological woman to force herself on him) whereas women will often feel threatened by men acting boisterously, particularly if they do so in a sexual manner as they will quite understandably fear the possibility of rape.

 

[Robertj21a]

Yes, that disproportionately affects women.

But what volumes are we talking about ? I'm prepared to agree that women may have more issues than men but are we talking about really small volumes anyway ??

 

[Journeyman]

But what volumes are we talking about ? I'm prepared to agree that women may have more issues than men but are we talking about really small volumes anyway ??

Well, yeah, we're not talking much but (a) even small amounts shouldn't be acceptable or trivialised, and (b) the fear of violence really affects women's ability to travel confidently (or even at all), regardless of the actual numbers of incidents.

 

[yorksrob]

Thinking about it last time I was on a train and it kicked off, it was two drunk women. One of them had gone to the bog and was that drunk she could barely even shut the door never mind lock it. The other (in a much better state) passenger arrived with the same intention and seeing it was unlocked, opened the door. An aggressive argument promptly followed but fortunately two Travelsafe Officers in the next carriage were able to intervene before it got physical, which I'm certain it would have done.

Fortunately I reached my stop whilst all this was ensuing, but it wouldn't surprise me if there had been a reception from the boys in blue at some point later down the line.

 

[185143]

Fortunately I reached my stop whilst all this was ensuing, but it wouldn't surprise me if there had been a reception from the boys in blue at some point later down the line.

I was on a Merseyrail train once and we were held at Hamilton Square waiting for the police (for about 40 minutes as well mind).

I mean, I don't know exactly what happened, but when officers boarded two went and spoke to a distressed looking female in the next carriage shortly followed by the other officer promptly nicking a bloke to a huge round of applause and shouts of "pervert". So I can only speculate what might have happened there sadly...

 

[yorksrob]

I'm really offended by that comment. They could have been female officers also wearing blue

Good point well made. Consider my comment amended !

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I was on a Merseyrail train once and we were held at Hamilton Square waiting for the police (for about 40 minutes as well mind).

I mean, I don't know exactly what happened, but when officers boarded two went and spoke to a distressed looking female in the next carriage shortly followed by the other officer promptly nicking a bloke to a huge round of applause and shouts of "pervert". So I can only speculate what might have happened there sadly...

I have a friend who once called the police about some disorderly men on the train once. Apparently they were waiting at the next stop.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

Not entirely sure what this has to do with luggage

There seem to be quite a few transport phobic people here who seem to assume that theft never seems to occur on planes, or (heaven forfend) from cars

It was in reference to this, but I forgot to quote it;

I think the answer will also depend on your gender. While harassment of women on flights is not unknown it is sadly far too common on the rail network and probably of an order many times that experienced while flying.

Agreed. There are trains my female friends wouldn’t dream of travelling alone on, regardless of whether or not we as men would be comfortable, it’s a valid POV.

I imagine that's more of a problem on late night suburban or regional trains in bad areas, rather than intercity? Never been bothered by anything much on a long distance train.

 

[TravelDream]

The vast majority of thefts are either by baggage handling staff, or by people picking up luggage at the belt that isn't theirs. People don't whip hand luggage, in general

That's why I would never put valuables in checked luggage. Only clothes and liquids like shampoo.
Valuables always go in hand luggage.
I am touching wood as I type, but I have flown well over 100 times, including in some less nice parts of the world, and have never had anything stolen or my bag go missing.

The other big difference with an airline is that they are liable if a bag goes missing/ is delayed.
I once had a full compliment of toiletries and a new top and underpants compliments of Aeroflot due to a very tight connection my bag didn't make. It arrived on the next day's flight untampered with and was delivered to my front door.
Of course you won't get the full value, but it's better than naff all if something gets nicked on a train.

 

[Journeyman]

I imagine that's more of a problem on late night suburban or regional trains in bad areas, rather than intercity? Never been bothered by anything much on a long distance train.

Yeah, local services do tend to attract more trouble.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

This sounds like a "Daily Mail" of Karen on Facebook thread .......stay at home and be safe.

Yes - there are some dodgy train related issues , and not just say St Pancras to Luton route+. (try anywhere on much of the Paris RER , or chunks of the NY subway)

Cities can be challenging - bag stolen in Barcelona and an attempted pick pocket - but I had the pleasure of smacking the would be thief hard. He ran away.

Plenty of examples of serious theft from motorway service car parks etc. Your chance of getting your mobile nicked in a pub or a gig can be quite high.

(+ in many years of travelling ,at all kinds of hours , I have never seen anything above minor drug issues , and certainly not theft , robbery and assault. In 3 years of looking after the NLL and DC lines , actual on train robberies as opposed to pickpocket activity seemed very low)

 

[185143]

Good point well made. Consider my comment amended !

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I have a friend who once called the police about some disorderly men on the train once. Apparently they were waiting at the next stop.

That's reminded me of something else. I texted BTP between Lea Green and Lime Street to report someone being threatening and giving a couple a load of racist abuse.

This was a non stop train as well, and the boys in blue were waiting at Lime Street. Quite impressed to be fair, especially as it was a Saturday night.