Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[northwichcat]

Capital letters in names of organisations and companies are very important.

Even though a large number don't use them? It's also not a recent thing - the Co-op have been using a lower case c in their logo since 1968.

 

[notlob.divad]

Regarding the logos and the name of the operator on the side of the train, when I was at primary school many moons ago, I was taught that for names of organisations/companies, etc should always begin with a capital letter.

It looks very lazy and sloppy with the current design.

PS For those who are wondering if capital letters really do matter, here is something I stumbled upon online a few years ago (I cannot find the link). The exact same sentence, one with capital letters regarding names, and one without.

1) "Tom helped his Uncle Jack off a horse"
2) "Tom helped his uncle jack off a horse"

The second sentence without capital letters gives a totally different meaning.
Capital letters in names of organisations and companies are very important.

Whilst that maybe very true, when used in a sentence, as part of a logo or branding all rules of punctuation and grammar can be forgotten. Take the following real world examples.

ebay not Ebay
intel not Intel
at&t no longer AT&T
citygroup not Citygroup
adidas not Adidas
amazon not Amazon
hp not HP
bp no longer BP
pepsi no longer Pepsi
and the very long lasting evian not Evian.

It is not a new thing, however I think with the age of the internet, where capital letters do not tend to appear in the address bar, associating your brand name in lower case letters has very much become a thing.

Finally, take a look at the photographers logo in the above pictures.

mikesphotos

is there a problem with that? because if you are worried about the lake of a capital letter, I suggest you would also have a problem with the lack of an apostrophe and the lack of a space.

 

[Adam0984]

150134 is the next one to go to Crewe for some sort of refurb work with 140 returning

 

[CosherB]

Finally, take a look at the photographers logo in the above pictures. is there a problem with that? because if you are worried about the lake of a capital letter, I suggest you would also have a problem with the lack of an apostrophe and the lack of a space.

I think you might be on the wrong forum.

 

[158722]

156481 seems to have emerged from Springburn in the new Northern livery, unbranded as per 486/489.

 

[507021]

150134 is the next one to go to Crewe for some sort of refurb work with 140 returning

Do you know if 150140 has been repainted?

 

[Greybeard33]

I just had a ride on 158754. Quite impressed, apart from the dirty carpet and the aircon not working. At least the PIS display was static, not scrolling unnecessarily!

 

[boeing737229]

I'd prefer the original, pastel purple, Arriva turquoise & pink roundels, but instead of 'by arriva'
'part of Arriva - a DB company' like on cross country & Grand Central

 

[superkev]

I just had a ride on 158754. Quite impressed, apart from the dirty carpet and the aircon not working. At least the PIS display was static, not scrolling unnecessarily!

You would think that after 20 plus years or so.some one would have come up with a solution to the 158's unreliable air con.
If the necessary skills no longer exist here how about trying overseas.
K

 

[175001]

150140 confirmed in new livery. Was on Newton Heath TMD this morning.

 

[Greybeard33]

You would think that after 20 plus years or so.some one would have come up with a solution to the 158's unreliable air con.
If the necessary skills no longer exist here how about trying overseas.
K

From my memory of a previous thread, there are no easy solutions to 158 aircon unreliability. A cause of many failures is the requirement for a lengthy "pump down" procedure before the engines are shut down - this is not always operationally practical.

It would be hard to justify the cost of retrofitting a modern system to 25 year old trains. There is always the option of opening the hopper windows!

 

[MCR247]

From my memory of a previous thread, there are no easy solutions to 158 aircon unreliability. A cause of many failures is the requirement for a lengthy "pump down" procedure before the engines are shut down - this is not always operationally practical.

It would be hard to justify the cost of retrofitting a modern system to 25 year old trains. There is always the option of opening the hopper windows!

SWT 158s have a better system though, its a case of won't not can't

 

[507021]

150140 confirmed in new livery. Was on Newton Heath TMD this morning.

Thanks, I'll add this to the list when I do the next update.

 

[skyhigh]

By chance I had a trip on the sole refurbished 155 yesterday - short verdict from me is that it's an improvement, still fairly obvious that it's an old train though.

 

[L+Y]

By chance I had a trip on the sole refurbished 155 yesterday - short verdict from me is that it's an improvement, still fairly obvious that it's an old train though.

I had a run out in it myself, my first experience of any refurbished Northern unit. I agree that it's a bit of an improvement- but I think it falls well short of the train being "as new"- the seat cushions are already breaking away from the frames!

 

[northwichcat]

I had a run out in it myself, my first experience of any refurbished Northern unit. I agree that it's a bit of an improvement- but I think it falls well short of the train being "as new"- the seat cushions are already breaking away from the frames!

You should tweet that picture to Northern stating the unit number and ask if the refurbishment work is yet to be completed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I had a run out in it myself, my first experience of any refurbished Northern unit. I agree that it's a bit of an improvement- but I think it falls well short of the train being "as new"- the seat cushions are already breaking away from the frames!

These are 1980s Leyland masterpieces... that IS "as new"!

 

[387star]

so when is the first properly refurbished unit due back in traffic with new seats?

 

[BigCj34]

From my memory of a previous thread, there are no easy solutions to 158 aircon unreliability. A cause of many failures is the requirement for a lengthy "pump down" procedure before the engines are shut down - this is not always operationally practical.

It would be hard to justify the cost of retrofitting a modern system to 25 year old trains. There is always the option of opening the hopper windows!

Though I have absolutely no idea when it comes to cost, class 158's could quite easily feel like a modern train if it had functioning air conditioning. They're less noisy than the 156's as well.

 

[Bovverboy]

Originally Posted by Greybeard33
From my memory of a previous thread, there are no easy solutions to 158 aircon unreliability. A cause of many failures is the requirement for a lengthy "pump down" procedure before the engines are shut down - this is not always operationally practical.

It would be hard to justify the cost of retrofitting a modern system to 25 year old trains. There is always the option of opening the hopper windows!

Though I have absolutely no idea when it comes to cost, class 158's could quite easily feel like a modern train if it had functioning air conditioning. They're less noisy than the 156's as well.

You should read Modern Railways (Issue 806 - November 2015) where Ian Walmsley asserts that the 158s are potentially Britain's best-ever DMUs. I couldn't agree more, they're terrific trains.

 

[rich r]

On the rare occasions I get a 158 on my commute it feels like luxury - quiet, comfortable, nice ride quality. That is of course comparing it to the normal 142 or leaky 150...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be hard to justify the cost of retrofitting a modern system to 25 year old trains.

It really wouldn't. They have well over 10 years more life left in them. Consider that Chiltern retrofitted air cooling[1] to the 165s which are of similar vintage.

What they need to do is rip it out and completely replace it. Modern aircon is very reliable - you do get the odd failure, but it is genuinely occasional.

[1] I've never been entirely sure what the difference is - they are refrigerant-based, not evaporative coolers, which is what I thought the difference was but clearly not.

 

[rich r]

[1] I've never been entirely sure what the difference is - they are refrigerant-based, not evaporative coolers, which is what I thought the difference was but clearly not.

Generally 'air conditioning' implies a feedback loop from temperature and humidity sensors to try to maintain the air within a narrow range of temperature and humidity. 'Air cooling' tends to mean cooling air with a refrigeration pack at a fixed rate which is (hopefully) set to roughly balance the heat being generated in the space. If it's set with all the seats empty at 6am, then it almost certainly won't be right for 5pm on a sunny day with full occupancy - unless someone manually alters it.

 

[superkev]

You should read Modern Railways (Issue 806 - November 2015) where Ian Walmsley asserts that the 158s are potentially Britain's best-ever DMUs. I couldn't agree more, they're terrific trains.

Ian also suggested that having the fall back hoppers allowed the maintenance people to give air con faults a lower priority. Removing them would hopefully encourage some action as well as stopping some guards opening them so that a working system has to cool the planet.
I think most 158's are already on there second system the original being supplied by Temperature Ltd.
Personally I think it sad NR seem to look on refurb as just redecorating rather than a full mid life mechanical overhaul as well.
Missed opportunity to fit state of the art engines/ transmission and finally fix that air con.
K

 

[Greybeard33]

It really wouldn't. They have well over 10 years more life left in them. Consider that Chiltern retrofitted air cooling[1] to the 165s which are of similar vintage.

It may well be possible to keep the 158s in service for another 10 years or more, but that does not mean that they will all necessarily remain in service that long. EMUs of a similar age are already being withdrawn.

For the ROSCO to invest in a retrofit, it needs to agree lease terms with the TOC that will guarantee an adequate return on the investment over the remaining term of the lease. The TOC may well not consider a potential improvement in aircon reliability worth the hike in the lease rate.

 

[MCR247]

It may well be possible to keep the 158s in service for another 10 years or more, but that does not mean that they will all necessarily remain in service that long. EMUs of a similar age are already being withdrawn.

What? We have ROSCOs literally turning EMUs into DMUs because were that short yet you're saying 158s may only possibly make another 10 years?

 

[boeing737229]

I agree with the point about the Orange LED destination blinds. They're truly woeful.

They flicker constantly and the text is too small in size and in definition. Also, they don't scroll, so longer destinations get abbreviated e.g. Manchester OR or Liverpool SP.

I honestly believe that the traditional roller blinds were easier to read from a distance. The type of display fitted to Merseyrail 507s/508s would have been far better.

The Merseyrail ones are VASTLY SUPERIOR!! Even if the rubbish ones being fitted currently, scrolled, like FGW's do, theyd be a BIT better, but still woefully rubbish!! Does anyone know what make they are?

Perhaps they or the ones used on the 321s/322s should be fitted in place of the rubbish ones

 

[Geeves]

The company installing the new electronic blinds and interior PIDs are called TrainFX. Supposedly Scotrail and Northern both use the same basic system how ever Northern went for a cheaper option. Ie No scrolling messages, no Scrolling PIDs or Destination screens, ohhh no no if you want that you have to pay MOAR money

 

[northwichcat]

The company installing the new electronic blinds and interior PIDs are called TrainFX. Supposedly Scotrail and Northern both use the same basic system how ever Northern went for a cheaper option. Ie No scrolling messages, no Scrolling PIDs or Destination screens, ohhh no no if you want that you have to pay MOAR money

"MOAR money" - is that the local currency in Rochdale.

I've only been on 150s with the CIS fitted and each time it's shown only the destination and scrolled even when the destination has been abbreviated to fit on the screen!

 

[175001]

The TrainFX works brilliantly on the DMUs when the correct route code is inputted. I had the Lime St stopper being announced on a 156 on the 0445 ECS up to Newton Heath the other morning.....