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Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

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northwichcat

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Class377/5 said:
But it can be changed while Northern is still the TOC, which is the key part in getting more capacity on that route.
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Do you mean Network Rail can change the infrastructure in the next 12 months even though they have not announced any plans to and are running behind schedule with infrastructure plans they have announced?

There would need to be platform lengthening at most stations between Manchester and Preston if 8 car 319s were used. However, platform lengthening at stations like Blackrod should be easier.
 
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Class377/5

Class377/5

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jcollins said:
Do you mean Network Rail can change the infrastructure in the next 12 months even though they have not announced any plans to and are running behind schedule with infrastructure plans they have announced?

There would need to be platform lengthening at most stations between Manchester and Preston if 8 car 319s were used. However, platform lengthening at stations like Blackrod should be easier.
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Northern can get the funding for platform lengthening if it wanted. Timescales aren't so easy to predict. Platform extensions, depending on track work, can be done in months. Thameslink platform extension tried some experimental ways meaning once foundations are built you can extend a platform (on Thameslink it was four coaches worth) in a weekend on multiple platforms.

Still believe think is the best way to deal with the overcrowding on this route.
 
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northwichcat

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Class377/5 said:
Northern can get the funding for platform lengthening if it wanted. Timescales aren't so easy to predict. Platform extensions, depending on track work, can be done in months. Thameslink platform extension tried some experimental ways meaning once foundations are built you can extend a platform (on Thameslink it was four coaches worth) in a weekend on multiple platforms.
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As Northern won't be operating 319s through Salford Crescent they won't ask for anything unless DfT asks them to do it on behalf of the next franchise but the current DfT wants to give the impression they don't decide what rolling stock goes where.
 
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po8crg said:
Indeed, since there won't actually be a Sprinter in Lime Street at the time, it will have to be worked by the 319. They won't be able to redo the timings until the timetable change in May, by which time LIV-WBQ could be 319-operated as well.
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It is usual to keep to a standard timing throughout the day for a particular route and especially with a mixture of units otherwise any clockface timings would go out through the window. Stopping trains tend not to be timed "too fast" anyway. Nothing would be done for the May Timetable at this late stage as it has already reached systems including Journey Planner.
 
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hairyhandedfool

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156441 said:
Just for your info these are the confirmed runs that will be worked by 319s until the May timetable change which will then see further 319's introduced.

0616,0716,0916,1215,1416,1516,1713,1814 Liverpool-Man Air and 0735,0840,1040,1340,1540,1640,1840,1940 Man Air-Liverpool
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So that'll be two units out and about then...

Any idea about Sunday workings (when they start running again....)?
 
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jcollins said:
So do they know what the 319s are or just that Northern have received second hand trains?
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I'm not sure I understand why it matters, but of the people I have spoken to a couple know they are trains coming up from Thameslink, most know they are trains coming from "the south", one thought that there were going to be new trains. None (including the one who thought they were going to be new) were bothered that they were going to be "second hand", most were of the view that it would be better than what they have now.
 
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Llama

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Just to note, the Feb 2015 traincrew diagrams do actually reflect the 319s, even though they are not yet in service.

Weekday unit diagrams are AN232 (stables overnight, quarter past-ish 06/09/12/15/18 departures from Lime St & returns, then 21:00 ECS to AN) and AN231 (05:42 ECS from AN, then 07/14/17:16 MIA & ret, then 20:10 ECS to AN).
 
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marko31161

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Llama said:
Just to note, the Feb 2015 traincrew diagrams do actually reflect the 319s, even though they are not yet in service.

Weekday unit diagrams are AN232 (stables overnight, quarter past-ish 06/09/12/15/18 departures from Lime St & returns, then 21:00 ECS to AN) and AN231 (05:42 ECS from AN, then 07/14/17:16 MIA & ret, then 20:10 ECS to AN).
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Don't forget they were supposed to be in in December,and could be in anytime so diagrams have to reflect that.
Can't introduce a set of diagrams without the necessary process
 
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northwichcat

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Camden said:
I'm not sure I understand why it matters, but of the people I have spoken to a couple know they are trains coming up from Thameslink, most know they are trains coming from "the south", one thought that there were going to be new trains. None (including the one who thought they were going to be new) were bothered that they were going to be "second hand", most were of the view that it would be better than what they have now.
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A 319 is a specific type of train built between 1987 and 1990. A cascaded electric train could be any type of EMU currently in service. To Joe Public a cascaded electric train from Thameslink could be a 377 or even an electric train used in the London area not even used on Thameslink.
 
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Llama

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That will be the unit for the Wigan drivers to train on based in Preston. There will be a similar move to Stockport for Manchester Victoria drivers to be trained on.

As far as the 319 diagrams go, there are no booked 319 diagrams showing on weekends so far. The Liverpool night 'ferry' driver on a Sunday night will bring the two units off Allerton at 0542 for the Monday morning services and then split them at Liverpool.
 
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Camden

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jcollins said:
A 319 is a specific type of train built between 1987 and 1990. A cascaded electric train could be any type of EMU currently in service. To Joe Public a cascaded electric train from Thameslink could be a 377 or even an electric train used in the London area not even used on Thameslink.
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What is your point though? I don't see the relevance.
 
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northwichcat

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Camden said:
What is your point though? I don't see the relevance.
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I'll give you a bus example to try and illustrate.

A bus route near me (the 88 route) used to be operated using 3 route branded buses - 2 x 37 seater 58 reg Optare Versas and 1 x 30 seater 03 reg Dennis Dart. Towards the end of last year the 88 bus route was enhanced and 4 new buses were introduced on that route, with the 3 existing buses being moved to two other routes. One route (the 501) got the 2 x 58 reg Optare Versas and the other route (the 27) got the 03 reg Dennis Dart. The 27 route was already operated using buses with around 30 seats which are rarely much older than an 03 reg bus. So saying to passengers on the 27 route that they are going to get a cascaded bus from the 88 route may have excited passengers who had used/seen the 37 seater 58 reg Versas on the 88 route but they weren't to get one of those.

You said earlier you've asked people do they mind getting cascaded trains from Thameslink (who don't know what a 319 is), where both 319s and 377s currently operate so people who say they don't mind may have seen/traveled on 377s on Thameslink and liked the idea of getting those and be disappointed when 319s turn up.
 
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Camden

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jcollins said:
I'll give you a bus example to try and illustrate.

A bus route near me (the 88 route) used to be operated using 3 route branded buses - 2 x 37 seater 58 reg Optare Versas and 1 x 30 seater 03 reg Dennis Dart. Towards the end of last year the 88 bus route was enhanced and 4 new buses were introduced on that route, with the 3 existing buses being moved to two other routes. One route (the 501) got the 2 x 58 reg Optare Versas and the other route (the 27) got the 03 reg Dennis Dart. The 27 route was already operated using buses with around 30 seats which are rarely much older than an 03 reg bus. So saying to passengers on the 27 route that they are going to get a cascaded bus from the 88 route may have excited passengers who had used/seen the 37 seater 58 reg Versas on the 88 route but they weren't to get one of those.

You said earlier you've asked people do they mind getting cascaded trains from Thameslink (who don't know what a 319 is), where both 319s and 377s currently operate so people who say they don't mind may have seen/traveled on 377s on Thameslink and liked the idea of getting those and be disappointed when 319s turn up.
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OK I understand what you are saying now.

No, and I would imagine that most of the people I have spoken to that I was referring to will likely never have seen a Thameslink train in service 319 or otherwise.

The situation is that people are currently using Northern diesel services, which generally come in for a bit of ribbing. The knowledge is that trains are coming up from the south, and the trains are electric, and so the expectation is that these are going to be better.

Some have seen the pictures from Northern of the refresh and I think would agree with me when I say as and when those others giving the thumbs up from a position of expectation rather than knowledge step on board one of these refreshed trains, they also won't feel at all disappointed with what has been sent up.

I take it you're not a fan of the class 319 trains?
 
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northwichcat

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The PIS seems to be showing "Welcome abroad this class 319." Why didn't they program in something like "This service is now operated by an electric train - cleaner and quieter"
 
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Chris125 said:
Paul Bigland's February Album includes various shots of the refurbished units which to me look even better than the official shots shown before:





Chris
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FCC Lino* and NSE in the cabs, not fully lost all trace of their Southern origins then!

*Made in Cornwall by Tiflex Treadmasters. Useless fact of the day for you. :)
 
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