Longest sleeper train rake and shortest rake

[Cheshire Scot]

There was such a thing as a Mk1 SLEP.

According to British Railways Mark 1 Coaches, by Keith Parkin, published in 1991, they were created by the Eastern and London Midland regions in 1971 by modifying 33 second class Mk1 sleepers so that the upper berth could be folded back, allowing them to be used as either single-berth compartments or as a twin-berth at times of heavy demand. These conversions were renumbered into the series 2800 to 2832.

And in this thread from 2022

Scottish Sleeper early 1980s

I have read a lot on this site about London to Scotland sleepers over the years, and there is often reference to the internal Glasgow/Edinburgh - Inverness sleeper service the combined at Perth. What I am interested in is ; 1) what was the usual haulage? I remember it often being class 26/27...

www.railforums.co.uk

there is a link to the Railway Inspectorate report into the derailment at Pitlochry in September 1983 of a southbound service (and an incident at Pershore on the Cotswold Line in 1984 when a similar track failure occurred) and both of the sleeper cars in the train were Mk1s and described as SLEPs, though 2448 perhaps should have been noted as an SLC going by its coaching stock number.




One of the contributors to the Facebook thread was a former driver and describes working an air-braked formation, including Mk3 sleepers and BGs, from Glasgow to Perth. While he describes the Aberdeen sleeping car being detached from the front of the train and shunted at Perth, he does not mention the BGs being detached. Maybe a few air-brake BGs migrated north at some stage?

In VB / Mk1 days the BGs (and GUVs) were attached at Perth, not detached. There would probably routinely be a BG in the AB formation, but not the further six or so taken forward from Perth to Inverness.

Re Mk1 SLC/SLEP, the Scottish Region only ever had SLCs but that is not to say if one was out of commission a Mk1 SLEP, some times referred to as SLE, could have had been borrowed from LM or Eastern Regions. 2448 would indeed have been one of the ScR allocated SLCs - they had 2424/5/6 and 2443/4.

As a side comment, the P in SLEP / SLSTP stood for pantry but as all MK1 sleepers had a pantry it would seem unnecessary but more relevant with MK3s only some of which had a pantry (which also served the adjacent no pantry vehicle.

 

[jimm]

In VB / Mk1 days the BGs (and GUVs) were attached at Perth, not detached. There would probably routinely be a BG in the AB formation, but not the further six or so taken forward from Perth to Inverness.

Re Mk1 SLC/SLEP, the Scottish Region only ever had SLCs but that is not to say if one was out of commission a Mk1 SLEP, some times referred to as SLE, could have had been borrowed from LM or Eastern Regions. 2448 would indeed have been one of the ScR allocated SLCs - they had 2424/5/6 and 2443/4.

As a side comment, the P in SLEP / SLSTP stood for pantry but as all MK1 sleepers had a pantry it would seem unnecessary but more relevant with MK3s only some of which had a pantry (which also served the adjacent no pantry vehicle.

Are you referring to extra trailing vans being added at Perth if required?

There were obviously BGs running from and to Glasgow and Edinburgh to carry post (and the newspapers printed in the two cities on the northbound runs) as no other brake vehicles were included in the formations of the two portions with the passenger coaches.

Re the Mk1 SLEP turning up north of the Central Belt, by September 1983 introduction of Mk3 sleepers was far advanced, so I doubt anyone was too fussy about using any of the Mk1s that were still in good running order wherever they were needed, which is probably why SLEP 2817 and an SLC that was not one of the five you say were officially allocated to Scottish Region were in that derailed train.

The Mk3s were certainly in use on the internal Scottish services by the following September, as I travelled in one from Inverness to Edinburgh one night in the middle of that month. Beyond the shiny new sleeping car, the ubiquitous Class 47 on the front and being in Edinburgh on time and making my connection with ease, I can't remember anything about the train or journey.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Are you referring to extra trailing vans being added at Perth if required?

There were obviously BGs running from and to Glasgow and Edinburgh to carry post (and the newspapers printed in the two cities on the northbound runs) as no other brake vehicles were included in the formations of the two portions with the passenger coaches.

The trailing vans were always attached at Perth, normally six vans. they conveyed parcels (still a big business for BR but soon to decline) and parcel post, some originated at Glasgow Parcels Station (arrived Perth on a parcels train slightly earlier) and several were ultimately for Wick, Thurso and Kyle, hence required their own VB train once the sleeper went AB. As you say, letter post and newspapers were in the BGs ex Glasgow QS and Edinburgh.

Re the Mk1 SLEP turning up north of the Central Belt, by September 1983 introduction of Mk3 sleepers was far advanced, so I doubt anyone was too fussy about using any of the Mk1s that were still in good running order wherever they were needed, which is probably why SLEP 2817 and an SLC that was not one of the five you say were officially allocated to Scottish Region were in that derailed train

A good point, and apologies I mis-read 2448 as 2443!

 

[Ken H]

The Barow sleepers took seated passengers. The timetable doesnt say sleeping cars only so I assume had seating cars all the way Barrow to Euston. The bit from Preston to Barrow would have extnded the local service day economicaly.
This from 1978

 

[AndrewE]

The Barow sleepers took seated passengers. The timetable doesnt say sleeping cars only so I assume had seating cars all the way Barrow to Euston. The bit from Preston to Barrow would have extnded the local service day economicaly.
This from 1978

View attachment 186525View attachment 186526

that's the famous 1A00. Brilliant for getting home from a drinking night out in the NW to the N midlands! The first long-distance overnight train into Euston. Here it is in 1979/80

 

[Carbean]

Slight drift, but when "Glorious 12th August" came around and all the landed gentry went up to their Scottish estates for the shooting, did reliefs run for the various sleeping car trains to the Highlands. I have heard Peth Station was very busy a couple of days prior to the 12th (as well). Apparently Peth Station Buffet was famous for the huge selection of whiskeys' behind the bar.

 

[D6130]

Apparently Peth Station Buffet was famous for the huge selection of whiskeys' behind the bar.

Pendant alert: I would hope that they would have been whiskies - the plural of whisky - which is the Scots spelling. Whiskeys is the Irish spelling!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Pendant alert: I would hope that they would have been whiskies - the plural of whisky - which is the Scots spelling. Whiskeys is the Irish spelling!

Maybe Perth's station buffet manager hailed from the Emerald Isle and was trying to corrupt unwary causal drinkers into the nectar from across the water...