Jacobite cancellations 2023

[theironroad]

Certainly the update of 26 July 2023 on the WCRC website is open and honest about the issues.

I would cut and paste it in or try to link it but I'll just get told off by someone.

 

[John Bishop]

Certainly the update of 26 July 2023 on the WCRC website is open and honest about the issues.

I would cut and paste it in or try to link it but I'll just get told off by someone.

Just a pity it took them almost 2 weeks to be open and honest about the situation, choosing initially to repeatedly claim the situation was completely outwith their control. I don’t think I could trust them as far as I could throw them.

 

[6Gman]

A big part of the issue is the behaviour (and at source, management) of the stewards. That is a cultural issue that is endemic within WCRC - see past transgressions on safety issues.

The message is clear: WCRC cannot be trusted and really need the book throwing at them.

Volunteer stewards (especially "mates" of the operator) are a menace.

We* had one years ago who decided that a pre-Christmas trip to Carlisle would be brightened up by wiring fairy lights into the electrics of the train.

Came close to blocking Carlisle station!


* By "we" I am referring to my time with Res/EWS when we managed charter trains.

 

[mike57]

Volunteer stewards

This is another aspect which confuses me. My understanding is that WCRC is a limited company who describe themselves on their website as and I quote "Independent Train Operating Company" running services to return a profit to shareholders. So why do they use volunteers? They are not a heritage operation in the sense of a preservation undertaking, where typically reliance on volunteers is part of the structure, although they are on the 'edge' I suppose.

To me if you pay someone to do a job you have more control over them, time off will be arranged contractually so you can make sure you have resources in place you need, and its easier to make sure they act in the companies best interest and are properly trained. Using volunteers sounds like a way of boosting shareholder profit at the expense of other aspects such as safety. Is this something the ORR can investigate? and if they do what can they do?

Considering the Jacobite operation, if they had to employ stewards I assume the extra cost would be passed on in the ticket prices, and judging by popularity this increase probably wouldn't put people off, so why not do the job properly?

 

[paul1609]

This is another aspect which confuses me. My understanding is that WCRC is a limited company who describe themselves on their website as and I quote "Independent Train Operating Company" running services to return a profit to shareholders. So why do they use volunteers? They are not a heritage operation in the sense of a preservation undertaking, where typically reliance on volunteers is part of the structure, although they are on the 'edge' I suppose.

To me if you pay someone to do a job you have more control over them, time off will be arranged contractually so you can make sure you have resources in place you need, and its easier to make sure they act in the companies best interest and are properly trained. Using volunteers sounds like a way of boosting shareholder profit at the expense of other aspects such as safety. Is this something the ORR can investigate? and if they do what can they do?

Considering the Jacobite operation, if they had to employ stewards I assume the extra cost would be passed on in the ticket prices, and judging by popularity this increase probably wouldn't put people off, so why not do the job properly?

Its not just the stewards that are volunteers. If it wasn't for volunteers there wouldn't be any steam on the mainline and probably no heritage diesels either.

 

[6Gman]

Its not just the stewards that are volunteers. If it wasn't for volunteers there wouldn't be any steam on the mainline and probably no heritage diesels either.

Off-site volunteers are fine and on-site support too, but when they come into safety-critical roles on the big railway problems emerge.

 

[alastair]

Off-site volunteers are fine and on-site support too, but when they come into safety-critical roles on the big railway problems emerge.

Almost every main line heritage steam operation has a substantial number of volunteers involved with the prepping/disposal of the locomotive plus assisting with multiple tasks such as at water stops and servicing at the turn around point. I'm not entirely clear where your dividing line is between on-site support and safety-critical roles? Have "problems" emerged from this type of volunteer input?

 

[6Gman]

Almost every main line heritage steam operation has a substantial number of volunteers involved with the prepping/disposal of the locomotive plus assisting with multiple tasks such as at water stops and servicing at the turn around point. I'm not entirely clear where your dividing line is between on-site support and safety-critical roles? Have "problems" emerged from this type of volunteer input?

Volunteers are fine but there has to be accountability for their actions.

Problems? Yes, as I mentioned earlier, I was involved in an incident where a volunteer steward took it upon himself to insert fairy lights into the carriage circuits cusing a lighting failure. Worse the volunteer "train manager" (i.e. the mate of the tour promoter who was doing "front of house" on the train, not the Train Manager employed by the railway) tried to bar entry to a fitter/electrician on the grounds that he hadn't been given permission to incur the expenditure).

With employees there would have been tea and no biscuits on Monday morning (and probably a Form 1 disciplinary) but as far as we could gather there was no action against either volunteer beyond a "don't do it again" if that.

 

[Titfield]

Volunteers are fine but there has to be accountability for their actions.

Problems? Yes, as I mentioned earlier, I was involved in an incident where a volunteer steward took it upon himself to insert fairy lights into the carriage circuits cusing a lighting failure. Worse the volunteer "train manager" (i.e. the mate of the tour promoter who was doing "front of house" on the train, not the Train Manager employed by the railway) tried to bar entry to a fitter/electrician on the grounds that he hadn't been given permission to incur the expenditure).

With employees there would have been tea and no biscuits on Monday morning (and probably a Form 1 disciplinary) but as far as we could gather there was no action against either volunteer beyond a "don't do it again" if that.

I am not sure what action you could take that would not have some form of newtonian opposite reaction.
Ban them for a month (or other period of time) and they will tell all and sundry through social media how unfairly they have been treated.
Suggest they undertake additional training or be supervised and the same will apply.

 

[LowLevel]

I don't really get the volunteer/paid notion of accountability here. I've heard it suggested before it's better to pay people so you can have leverage over them but you have no more leverage over inevitably zero hours contract staff than you do volunteers. Both can tell you to get stuffed, just the former costs you money and at least the latter tend to be invested and committed in what they're doing. I've worked with paid agency carriage stewards before and they were far more difficult to manage.

Carriage stewards are not safety critical and will be working under the ultimate direction of the train guard who is accountable for them in terms of any safety duties in accordance with an agreed and briefed method of work, although there may also be a tour manager or similar looking after them more generally.

There are plenty of volunteers in all areas of charter train operations from stewards to support crew, many of them are industry professionals themselves giving their time to see heritage trains run. I've worked with volunteers who have been everything from TOC head of functions to professional train fitters to media personalities.

 

[Elwyn]

The full facts aren’t quite clear (to me). Do we know that it is the volunteer stewards who are allegedly at fault here (by not carrying out their duties properly)? Could it be that there’s not enough of them for a full train and that someone has been allowing passengers to open doors themselves? In which case the fault may lie elsewhere.

 

[eldomtom2]

Carriage stewards are not safety critical

What precise definition of "safety critical" are you using?

The full facts aren’t quite clear (to me). Do we know that it is the volunteer stewards who are allegedly at fault here (by not carrying out their duties properly)? Could it be that there’s not enough of them for a full train and that someone has been allowing passengers to open doors themselves? In which case the fault may lie elsewhere.

The ORR notice specifically blames stewards for "not preventing passengers from operating the secondary door locks" and "not preventing passengers from leaning on train doors or from leaning out of the open droplight windows in train doors of moving trains" but only blames the vaguer "train crew" for "passengers are being told by train crew to operate the secondary door locks" and "secondary door locks are not in the ‘locked’ position or are being opened by train crew before the train is stationary". The actions blamed on stewards seem less serious to me than those blamed on "train crew". Certainly the reflexive "it's all the volunteers' fault" attitude seen in some posts here seems unjustified.

 

[12LDA28C]

What precise definition of "safety critical" are you using?

The ORR notice specifically blames stewards for "not preventing passengers from operating the secondary door locks" and "not preventing passengers from leaning on train doors or from leaning out of the open droplight windows in train doors of moving trains" but only blames the vaguer "train crew" for "passengers are being told by train crew to operate the secondary door locks" and "secondary door locks are not in the ‘locked’ position or are being opened by train crew before the train is stationary". The actions blamed on stewards seem less serious to me than those blamed on "train crew". Certainly the reflexive "it's all the volunteers' fault" attitude seen in some posts here seems unjustified.

I doubt that many carriage stewards are in possession of the correct certification to allow them to go trackside, which I assume is what was meant by 'safety critical' in this instance.

 

[LowLevel]

What precise definition of "safety critical" are you using?

They have no safety critical role under ROGS regulations. They do not undertake any safety critical work at their own direction. The duties of locking and unlocking the doors are solely at the direction of the train guard, they have no autonomy in the matter.

Whether this is undertaken correctly is a different matter, but the basic premise of the accepted method of work for the CDL exemption doesn't change.

 

[philthetube]

I am not sure what action you could take that would not have some form of newtonian opposite reaction.
Ban them for a month (or other period of time) and they will tell all and sundry through social media how unfairly they have been treated.
Suggest they undertake additional training or be supervised and the same will apply.

The people who would accept that these stewards had been unfairly treated are the ones that you don' want stewarding/#.

 

[John R]

Nothing before Aug 9th now. That’s nearly a month of the peak summer traffic gone, and a lot of tourists mightily hacked off.

 

[Killingworth]

Nothing before Aug 9th now. That’s nearly a month of the peak summer traffic gone, and a lot of tourists mightily hacked off.

The booking page on their website doesn't allow any bookings for the rest of the year and thats been the case for weeks now. Filling trains from 9th August, or any other dates, will be challenging.

 

[John Bishop]

Nothing before Aug 9th now. That’s nearly a month of the peak summer traffic gone, and a lot of tourists mightily hacked off.

I think realistically, we can probably say goodbye to the 2023 Jacobite season.

 

[alexl92]

It was reported in Steam Railway a couple of months ago that LSL are putting pressure on the ORR not to grant WCRC further exemptions following those which were due to expire in June. Perhaps this is also a factor?

 

[Justin Smith]

Railway Magazine Aug 2023 p6

"Jacobite steam service suspended after concerns over door locking safety"
The ORR indicated carriage vestibules were not being managed properly and the inspector said someone could fall out from the doors of a train or that a person leaning out of an open droplight of a moving train may be struck as the train passed infrastructure, including vegetation, rock cuttings and earthworks.
Stewards are not preventing passengers from operating the secondary door locks, or preventing passengers from leaning out of the train doors or out of the opening droplight windows.

Timeline

1830 - First inter city rail service [without central locking of doors and with opening windows]
1951 - Mk1 coaches (as used on the Jacobite service) introduced [without central locking of doors and with opening windows]
2005 - Central door locking mandated [175 years since the 1st inter city service, 54 years since the introduction of the Mk1 coach]
2019 - Opening windows banned on mainline trains [189 years since the 1st inter city service]

You are cordially invited to the funeral of personal responsibility........

Picture off the BBC news report on this subject :

I was nearly wetting myself when I realised that the behaviour which the Beeb thought so serious they put a pic of it on their site, was that bloke leaning out of the droplight to take a picture, when the train is in the middle of a viaduct.
Is there anyone out there who seriously thinks we still live in a sane world ?

 

[12LDA28C]

It was reported in Steam Railway a couple of months ago that LSL are putting pressure on the ORR not to grant WCRC further exemptions following those which were due to expire in June. Perhaps this is also a factor?

What's to stop LSL running their own version of the Jacobite with suitable stock? They have drivers and guards that sign the route.

 

[Cowley]

It feels like what’s needed to be discussed has been discussed by now and all that’s happening now is that the date keeps getting pushed back, so for the time being we’ll put a pause on the thread until there’s further news.

Over and out…

 

[Iskra]

WCRC now recruiting for Door Stewards

West Coast Railways - Careers

West Coast Railways - Careers - Recruitment - Apply online

westcoastrailways.co.uk

Current opportunities with West Coast Railways​

We require additional stewards to work either full time or part time on board The Jacobite running from Fort William to Mallaig.

Job Description:

Seasonal Steward Onboard The Jacobite Steam Train Service

Position: Steward (Full and Part Time Opportunities), all age groups are welcome to apply.

Location: Fort William

Reports to: Train Manager

Rate of Pay: £12/hour

Working Times: 9:00 – 16:30 (3rd April to 27th October 2023) or 12:00 – 19:30 (1st May to 29th September 2023).

About:

Described as the greatest railway journey in the world, this 84 mile round trip takes you past a list of impressive extremes from the highest mountain in Britain, Ben Nevis to the deepest seawater loch in Europe, Loch Nevis!

Job Summary:

As a Steward onboard The Jacobite, you will be an essential part of the guest experience, ensuring that passengers enjoy a memorable and comfortable journey through the stunning Scottish Highlands. Your primary responsibility will be to provide outstanding customer service, offering hospitality and assistance to passengers during their travel on the historic steam train.



Key Responsibilities:

1. Passenger Assistance:
   • Greet passengers warmly upon boarding and provide a friendly and professional presence throughout the journey.
   • Assist passengers in finding their seats and provide any necessary information about the train journey, safety protocols, and onboard amenities.
2. Safety and Emergency Procedures:
   • Familiarize passengers with safety protocols, including emergency exits, first aid kits, and evacuation procedures.
   • Remain vigilant during the journey to promptly address any safety concerns or incidents that may arise.
3. Train Presentation:
   • Maintain the cleanliness and tidiness of passenger areas, including seating areas, restrooms, and dining facilities.
   • Ensure that the train's interior is well-presented and adheres to the high standards set by the Jacobite Steam Train Service.
4. Information and Communication:
   • Keep passengers informed about the train's route, upcoming landmarks, and points of interest along the journey.
   • Provide announcements and updates regarding any schedule changes or delays.
5. Problem-Solving:
   • Handle passenger inquiries, complaints, or issues in a calm and professional manner.
   • Resolve conflicts or challenges that may arise among passengers to maintain a harmonious environment onboard.
6. Safety Compliance:
   • Adhere to all safety guidelines, company policies, and industry regulations while carrying out your duties.
   • Follow the instructions of the Train Manager and cooperate with other onboard staff members.
7. Teamwork:
   • Collaborate effectively with other onboard staff, including train drivers, conductors, and catering personnel, to ensure a smooth and seamless journey for passengers.

Requirements:

• Excellent communication and interpersonal skills.
• Previous experience in hospitality, customer service, or related fields is preferred.
• Ability to work in a fast-paced environment and remain composed under pressure.
• Flexibility in working hours, as the job may require evening and weekend shifts.
• Strong problem-solving abilities and a proactive approach to passenger satisfaction.
• Physical fitness to move around the train and attend to passengers' needs.
• Passion for the history and beauty of the Scottish Highlands and a willingness to share knowledge with passengers.
• Familiarity with safety procedures and emergency protocols is an advantage.

Note: The duties and responsibilities outlined in this job description are intended to provide an overview of the role of a Steward onboard the Jacobite Steam Train Service and may be subject to change or modification as per operational requirements.

Full training will be given.

Please send us your CV along with a covering letter to recruitment@westcoastrailways.net.

 

[John R]

The latest update from WCRC suggests that services may commence on Wednesday 9th, albeit with only a morning service initially.

Important Travel Information - Jacobite steam train Updated

<p id="isPasted"><strong>IMPORTANT TRAVEL INFORMATION</strong></p><p id="isPasted">Due to operational reasons, we are unable to run our Jacobite service before 9th August 2023 as planned. The Jacobite will also not run on the afternoon services of Wednesday 9th & Thursday 10th...

westcoastrailways.co.uk

Due to operational reasons, we are unable to run our Jacobite service before 9th August 2023 as planned. The Jacobite will also not run on the afternoon services of Wednesday 9th & Thursday 10th August.

 

[D Williams]

WCRC now recruiting for Door Stewards

West Coast Railways - Careers

West Coast Railways - Careers - Recruitment - Apply online

westcoastrailways.co.uk

"Horse" and "stable door" comes to mind.

 

[mike57]

Seasonal Steward Onboard The Jacobite Steam Train Service

I would imagine that WCRC will be competing in a tight labour market, because as in any area that has a heavy reliance on tourism there tends to be more seasonal jobs available than people to fill them. Not sure how you overcome that. Population of Fort William is around 10 - 11,000 and the hinterland is pretty empty, thats one of the attractions. So trying recruit in the middle of the season, everyone looking for work probably has it.

 

[Iskra]

Seasonal Steward Onboard The Jacobite Steam Train Service

I would imagine that WCRC will be competing in a tight labour market, because as in any area that has a heavy reliance on tourism there tends to be more seasonal jobs available than people to fill them. Not sure how you overcome that. Population of Fort William is around 10 - 11,000 and the hinterland is pretty empty, thats one of the attractions. So trying recruit in the middle of the season, everyone looking for work probably has it.

I thought that too. It’s a fairly attractive job though. I think the way to overcome it decisively might be to provide accommodation.

 

[Killingworth]

Seasonal Steward Onboard The Jacobite Steam Train Service

I would imagine that WCRC will be competing in a tight labour market, because as in any area that has a heavy reliance on tourism there tends to be more seasonal jobs available than people to fill them. Not sure how you overcome that. Population of Fort William is around 10 - 11,000 and the hinterland is pretty empty, thats one of the attractions. So trying recruit in the middle of the season, everyone looking for work probably has it.

Given the sensitivity of the situation getting all the references and training done and arranging accommodation will be challenging. Hotels and orher seasonal employers are struggling for staff When we stayed in Fort William pre-Covid they were relying on employees from across Europe, including Russia.

 

[John Bishop]

So services are due to start tomorrow but have only just started to recruit for door stewards? How will that work?

 

[DarloRich]

So services are due to start tomorrow but have only just started to recruit for door stewards? How will that work?

perhaps they have enough for one round trip but not two
perhaps permission has been given to run SUBJECT TO a recruitment campaign to secure more stewards