HS2 Hybrid Bill

[ainsworth74]

From the BBC:

Supreme Court rejects HS2 legal bid

The Supreme Court has rejected a legal bid by objectors of the HS2 national high-speed rail link to force further scrutiny of the government's plans.

The challenge had focused on whether the government followed the rules when assessing HS2's environmental impact.

But the court unanimously rejected the claims against phase one of the scheme - the London to Birmingham route.

The BBC understands this is now the end of the legal challenges, as there is no right of appeal to Europe.

But there could be future challenges on phase two of the scheme, from Birmingham to Manchester and Leeds, when the final route is announced.

 

[HowardGWR]

The Court also refused leave to take the case to the European Court so I presume that will have to be honoured.

 

[anthony263]

Good we dont need the EU courts sticking their noses in as it just gives the anti-HS2 lot more opportunities to delay things and increase costs

 

[transmanche]

The Court also refused leave to take the case to the European Court so I presume that will have to be honoured.

I'm assuming that refers to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) rather than the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR)?

 

[HowardGWR]

I'm assuming that refers to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) rather than the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR)?

Indeed

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Confirmed today that the Hybrid Bill will not receive royal assent before the next general election

HS2 set to miss general election legislation deadline
By Jim Pickard and Mark Odell

The coalition will miss its target for getting its HS2 legislation through Parliament before next year’s general election, the transport secretary has admitted for the first time.

Patrick McLoughlin told the Spectator magazine that there had been significant hold-ups because of MPs speaking out against the high-speed rail line from London to Manchester and Leeds.

“I think one has to accept that perhaps [getting] through all its stages within the next 12 months is slightly ambitious,” he said. The legislation would have “started its parliamentary process” by May 2015 but would not be completed.
“You have to accept that certain people, certain constituencies are heavily impacted by a piece of national infrastructure,” he said.

News of the delay will not derail the scheme but by pushing the legislation into the next Parliament will add to the political uncertainty that has dogged its progress in recent months.Ed Balls, the shadow chancellor, issued a stark warning about the project last autumn, saying Labour would pull the plug if the £50bn budget – including rolling stock – rose any further.Since then, Labour’s tone has been more positive, although Mr Balls said in January that HS2’s supporters had not won the argument about whether the current scheme was “the best way to spend the money”.

Legal experts have long warned that the timetable for the parliamentary process, or “hybrid bill”, for the first stage of the line was very optimistic.
That is because HS2 is much more contentious and larger than previous infrastructure projects, meaning MPs are likely to have to deal with thousands of petitions.

There were fewer than 500 petitions against Crossrail, the last project that went through this process – but it still took three years to get London’s new east-west line through Parliament.An aide to Mr McLoughlin said construction would still begin in 2017 on phase one from London to Birmingham, which is due to complete in 2026. A second phase to Manchester and Leeds will not open until 2033.

The news comes as Sir David Higgins, the new HS2 chairman, is poised to outline how it could be built more quickly and for less money.
Sir David is expected to publish a report in mid-March that will look at shortening the construction period. This would help reduce costs by removing inflationary pressures.He has questioned why it will take so long to build the whole line and support has been growing for his idea of starting work at both ends, led by northern cities who fear the political impetus behind the project could fail before work on phase two starts.

Speculation is also mounting that he will recommend scrapping a proposed £500m link between HS2 and HS1 – the high-speed line between London St Pancras and the Channel tunnel.
Senior rail executives have questioned whether there is enough demand for services to run to the continent from regional UK cities. Transport for London has lobbied against it because it would take away some of the land it has earmarked for expansion of the London Overground network.

Meanwhile Lord Deighton, the infrastructure minister, is just days from publishing a separate report designed to bolster public support for the project. The peer, who – like Sir David – is a former Olympics executive, has lead a “HS2 task force” designed to maximise the economic benefits of the scheme.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3cbc79fc-a493-11e3-9313-00144feab7de.html

 

[HowardGWR]

While we are mucking about with all this legal stuff, look at what is happening in China!

http://www.tunnelsonline.info/news/work-starts-on-beijing-shenyang-high-speed-railway-4190599?

" Construction has begun on a high-speed railway linking the Chinese capital of Beijing and Shenyang, capital of northeast China's Liaoning Province, Xinhua News Agency reported on 3 March, quoting local authorities.
Work on the 8.8km Sanleng Mount Tunnel started on 28 February to spearhead the Beijing-Shenyang railway project, according to a statement from the provincial transportation department.
The tunnel will stretch from the city of Beipiao to Fuxin Mongolia Autonomous County. It will be completed within 33 months, the statement said.
The 709km Beijing-Shenyang railway project is expected to be finished within five years, after a total investment of CNY 124.5bn (USD 20.3bn).
The railway, designed for a speed of 350km per hour, will halve the travel time between the two cities to 2.5 hours, according to the provincial transportation department."

 

[Snapper]

The Hybrid Bill 2nd reading has been set for April 28th.

 

[Ironside]

The Hybrid Bill 2nd reading has been set for April 28th.

Only three weeks to go!

 

[WatcherZero]

Lichfield MP is trying to organise a Conservative rebllion but I dont think hes finding much support.

 

[Ironside]

Lichfield MP is trying to organise a Conservative rebllion but I dont think hes finding much support.

He even says that he expects the bill to pass with a huge majority as he has been told Labour will Whip it's MPs to support the bill. If that is the case then it won't matter if there is a slight back bench rebellion from the Conservatives.


http://lichfieldlive.co.uk/2014/04/...o-option-but-to-vote-against-hs2-legislation/

 

[jon0844]

An MP should act for his or her constituents, but that doesn't mean you can promise or even expect to get the right result. At least you will be seen as trying.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I saw an article the other day that they want to decrease the maximum speed of HS2 so that I think it was just 20mins quicker. If HS2 did get axed, and its budget was put first building another route to supplement the East and West coast mainlines then towards converting the whole of the UK to AC, how much of the UK would that get converted to AC?

 

[pablo]

SpacePhoenix. Which galaxy have you come from?

 

[NotATrainspott]

I saw an article the other day that they want to decrease the maximum speed of HS2 so that I think it was just 20mins quicker. If HS2 did get axed, and its budget was put first building another route to supplement the East and West coast mainlines then towards converting the whole of the UK to AC, how much of the UK would that get converted to AC?

But HS2 is 'the other route to supplement the East and West coast mainlines' and Network Rail have just embarked on a programme of rolling 25kV electrification works that are happening as fast as they can physically manage. This programme only plans for the next five years, until 31 March 2019, so there will be another one and a half of these periods before HS2 opens. It is entirely possible and indeed probable that by the 2030 opening date of Phase 2, there will be wires from Penzance up to Aberdeen and Inverness.

 

[HSTEd]

That 25kV campaign could go faster, just that noone in Government is willing to pay for it to go faster.
This is an important distinction (especially in the aftermath of the Government's decision to cease lying about the status of Network Rail).

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Lichfield MP is trying to organise a Conservative rebllion but I dont think hes finding much support.

Apparently he has been sacked from his position as Deputy Chair of the Consevative Party because of trying to table an amendedment to the HS2 bill to delay it and for tweeting "about time" when Maria Miller resigned.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/isabel...ricant-sacked-what-about-other-hs2-opponents/

It’s difficult to know what astonished people more about Michael Fabricant’s sacking: that he has lost his job or that he was still in a role that required some semblance of collective responsibility. Shortly after assuming the role of Vice Chair of the Conservative Party, he called for a pact with Ukip. Some of his tweets have raised eyebrows. He said it was ‘about time’ that Maria Miller resigned. But the final straw that led party chairman Grant Shapps to ask him to think about resigning from his job was that Fabricant had tabled this wrecking amendment to the HS2 Bill:

That this House, while recognising the ever-increasing need for additional north-south rail line capacity to relieve congestion on the West Coast Mainline and to improve connectivity between major cities and with London, declines to give the High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Bill a second reading because the line as set forth in the Bill (a) is insensitively routed through previously unspoiled countryside unnecessarily damaging the environment including wildlife habitats, ancient woodlands and waterways, (b) is significantly more costly than it need be because of the extra mitigation required to reduce environmental damage arising from the current planned route, (c) unlike much of the planned route north of the West Midlands and unlike similar lines in continental Europe, does not propose the use of existing transport corridors which would mitigate environmental damage and construction costs, (d) fails to connect directly to existing major mainline stations, (e) fails to connect directly with potential airport hubs for London and the south-east of England, (f) fails to connect with High Speed 1 and the Channel Tunnel, (g) fails to provide for sufficient public transport to disperse passengers disembarking from High Speed 2 (HS2) trains at Euston, (h) provides inadequate compensation to those blighted by the route and those whose property is subject to compulsory purchase orders and (i) does not provide for construction to start from Manchester and Leeds; and therefore calls on the Government to produce revised HS2 legislation with a more environmentally sympathetic and cost-effective route.

Yes, that’s an amendment declining to give the high-speed rail bill a second reading. Which is awkward when it’s a flagship piece of Conservative legislation. It is also a bit awkward because it has David Davis as one of the signatories, along with Sir Edward Leigh and Jeremy Lefroy. Davis has a habit of pitching up whenever there’s trouble in the same way as iron filings have a habit of rushing towards a magnet. And the proposed route of the initial HS2 link doesn’t go near his constituency.

Fabricant refused to resign, and was then sacked. But there are apparently no hard feelings towards him from CCHQ.

It will be interesting to see how many Conservative MPs back this wrecking amendment. But what will also be interesting is what some of the Bill’s opponents in government do about it. Cheryl Gillan left the government in 2012 partly to enable her to fight the legislation, which she has done with dogged determination ever since. But David Lidington, whose Aylesbury constituency is also affected by the line, remains Europe Minister (he explained why he hadn’t resigned over the preparation bill in November here). Of course, his job may mean he’s unaccountably delayed in a European capital when the votes come up.

 

[Ironside]

I was thinking about next weeks second reading of the hybrid bill and wondered if generally bills that pass the second ever fail at the third reading? Ignoring occasions when a general election occurs during the progress of a bill I would have thought that most MPs would stick to their original voting decision?

 

[po8crg]

I was thinking about next weeks second reading of the hybrid bill and wondered if generally bills that pass the second ever fail at the third reading? Ignoring occasions when a general election occurs during the progress of a bill I would have thought that most MPs would stick to their original voting decision?

It does happen that MPs switch their votes, or even whole parties do.

Second reading is a vote on whether you agree in principle; third reading is a vote on whether you agree in detail.

When it happens, you voted in favour on second with the intention of seeking some amendments, then you don't get the amendments you want, and then you vote against on third reading. Tends to happen with the omnibus bills like the big criminal justice bills (which are the ones that create a list of fifty new crimes and abolish forty old ones). If there's one new crime you have a problem with but the other 49 are fine, then you vote in favour at second reading and then try an amendment to remove the objectionable one. If the amendment fails, you can vote against at third.

For the hybrid bill, the second reading vote is "is having an HS2 line a good idea?", the third reading vote is "is having this HS2 line a good idea?"

 

[Ironside]

It does happen that MPs switch their votes, or even whole parties do.

Second reading is a vote on whether you agree in principle; third reading is a vote on whether you agree in detail.

When it happens, you voted in favour on second with the intention of seeking some amendments, then you don't get the amendments you want, and then you vote against on third reading. Tends to happen with the omnibus bills like the big criminal justice bills (which are the ones that create a list of fifty new crimes and abolish forty old ones). If there's one new crime you have a problem with but the other 49 are fine, then you vote in favour at second reading and then try an amendment to remove the objectionable one. If the amendment fails, you can vote against at third.

For the hybrid bill, the second reading vote is "is having an HS2 line a good idea?", the third reading vote is "is having this HS2 line a good idea?"

Ah that makes sence.

 

[WatcherZero]

Conservative whips pretty relaxed about second reading, they think there will be a rebellion of around 40 but it will be easily carried with Labour support.


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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...hy-labour-backs-the-hs2-raillink-9292296.html

Letter in the Indie by Labour Shadow Transport Secretary outlining why they back HS2.

The Wildlife Trust says the environmental impacts of HS2 can be mitigated by spending just £130m on a green corridor along the route.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The Wildlife Trust says the environmental impacts of HS2 can be mitigated by spending just £130m on a green corridor along the route.

That sounds about right and personally, should be done instantly.

 

[deltic]

The Wildlife Trust says the environmental impacts of HS2 can be mitigated by spending just £130m on a green corridor along the route.[/QUOTE]

But that presumably will require additional compulsory purchase of land and hence more opposition to the scheme

 

[Geezertronic]

But that presumably will require additional compulsory purchase of land and hence more opposition to the scheme

Or it would give the countryside NIMBYs more to moan about as their part of little Britain would get busier with the extra traffic such a scheme might cause

 

[gordonthemoron]

I seem to recall from the radio last week, that the anti-HS2 mob were going to propose a new option of tunneling through the centre of the earth or somesuch, anyone got a link?

 

[WatcherZero]

Sorry no link, I think its a Chiltern group which supposedly has done a business case that it saves money to have more tunnel and follow the highways.
If you think about it fully a quarter of HS2's budget is compensation so they may be some underlying truth in it, go underground less land and less compensation for noise.

 

[NotATrainspott]

As seems to always be the case now, HS2 Ltd commissioned Arup to write a report on the possibilities of even longer tunneling in the Chilterns:

Chilterns Long Tunnel Options Review - January 2012

The HS TSIs say that tunnels longer than 20km have to have special safety measures in place in case of fire. The Channel Tunnel has its central service tunnel and the two massive crossover caverns while the Gotthard Base Tunnel has emergency stations at Sedrun and Faido. The longer Chilterns tunnels would therefore either have to have an emergency service bore or would have to be split by an emergency station as well. For the long tunnel option with the emergency station this means a Stratford International-sized box in the middle of the countryside next to Little Missenden. The report mentions the fact though that the tunnelling planned already is far more than would be done elsewhere in the world as there is no geophysical reason why HS2 cannot be on the surface through the Chilterns.
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The debate has properly started now. It's now about an hour late because of the Ukraine discussion.

 

[Ironside]

An attempt to have an amendment was defeated by 451 against 50.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Cheryl Gillan's amendment to decline the HS2 bill a second reading rejected by 451 votes against 50

HS2 vote passed by 452 votes in favour v.s. 41 against

 

[Ironside]

Passes second reading 452-41. Brilliant news.