How to encourage bus use?

[WestCoast]

London, Oxford, Nottingham and Edinburgh strike me as the most bus-friendly cities in the UK, with high levels of ridership among people of all different social backgrounds.

The Oxford SmartZone is terrific, proving that integration between operators can work (though IMHO Go-Ahead and Stagecoach are the best quality nationwide bus groups we have). I found the buses there a pleasure to use.

Birmingham's bus network is OK but it's not up to the above cities standards or those found across continental Europe. It lacks more affordable integrated ticketing and when (if ever) are NXWM going to accept this SWIFT smartcard like a number of smaller operators do at present? Very limited services at night as well. All in all, for such a large sprawling conurbation, it's disappointing IMO.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Make them run on time or make it possible to know when a bus will arrive at your stop. There is a bus stop about thirty seconds walk from my house that will take me to the centre of Redcar, but, I hardly ever use it and instead walk twenty minutes to the train station because I know when the train will turn up and it doesn't cost me any time (train takes five minutes to centre the bus from my local stop about thirty).

Unless I can know with certainty that the bus will be at the bus stop at xx:yy or I can know how late it's running I will always pick the train. Even if it involves a longer walk.

yes - as even where there are text message based systems they are often not real time for all routes ...

and where at stop PIS is installed it's often not used and when it is isn;t real time ...

better interavailability and allowing break of journey would also help useage ( admittedly BoJ is not an issue when the most cost effective return ticket for anything other than a short hop is the 4 - 5 gbp day ticket ... ( just it;s aa shame how small the area for some are - e.g. Arriva's 'Leicester' day ticket is about the same price as Arriva's West Yorkshire day ticket but the leicester ticket barely gets you out of the city boundary to the south and only out to the first lot of dormitory settlements to the north - where the WY ticket allows you to travel on all Arriva Services in W Yorks ( so you can do Ponte- Wakefield-(Dewsbury) - Bradford ... )

 

[edwin_m]

Somebody just mentioned Nottingham.

Here we have two multi-award-winning bus operators (neither, incidentally, part of one of the big operating groups), highly regarded local transport authorities and one of the few places outside London with growing (and large) bus modal shares. Vehicles are modern and many have visual and audible next stop announcements. The stops almost universally have timetable information displayed, and some of the busier ones also have displays which show real time running for bus with the relevant equipment.

I'd suggest that Nottingham has about the best bus service possible in the degregulated framework that applies outside London. But there are plenty of things still wrong with it.

The two operators have smartcard systems but they are fundamentally incompatible. The tram used to have tickets interavailable with NCT but since transfer to a consortium including Trent Barton there is no systematic interavailability even with TB - apparently the competition authorities now prevent two operators sharing tickets unless all other operators are given the opportunity to participate. There are some tram-bus tickets in specific places but not generally over the network.

There is also an area-wide shared ticket (the Kangaroo) but it is more expensive than any of the single-operator tickets and importantly the Kangaroo day ticket is more expensive than two singles so not worth it for a simple return journey.

In the outer suburb where I live there is a good service past the front door until early evening and the later evening buses do add up to a reasonable provision if you don't mind walking a bit. However there are no fewer than four operators (five until recently) providing evening services to stops within a 15min walk, so getting home off a late train requires a fair bit of research and also probably costs extra unless you know in advance that you will be returning on the same operator you used in the morning.

It may be possible for other places to raise their game to match Nottingham but I believe our legislative framework would prevent anyone improving much on it. One benefit that might be possible within a degegulated framework would be to allow interavailability of return ticket portions on evening and possibly Sunday services, thus effectively increasing service frequency at no extra cost to the traveller. However I can see this involving a lot of administration (maybe smartcards would help?) and individual operators squabbling over their slice of the cake rather than looking to make the cake bigger for all of them. Some co-ordination of timetables between operators would also be beneficial.

Bus services will always be unreliable to some extent if they share traffic lanes in congested areas. One reason Germany, Switzerland etc work so well is that the bus is used where it is most effective - as a feeder in rural areas where traffic congestion isn't an issue and the passenger numbers don't justify anything more complicated. Routes into city centres are on segregated (normally rail) infrastructure with co-ordinated connections to buses. The service is treated as a network rather than a series of routes, and it should go without saying that there is no fare penalty for changing vehicle.

There's an apocryphal story of some British transport experts visiting a network in Switzerland. They asked their hosts "where is your real time information". The host pointed to the paper timetable and explained that 99% (or whatever) of services are within a minute of the times shown. When you have a service unaffected by road congestion then everything else tends to fall into place!

 

[Greybeard33]

Since acquiring a GMPTE over-60s pass (which gives free travel on trains and Metrolink in Greater Manchester, as well as buses, after 9:30) I often use public transport for journeys I previously would have made by car. I find Traveline a useful resource for planning bus and intermodal journeys - it suggests routes and connections I would not otherwise have thought of. However, the main factors that deter me personally from making more use of the buses as opposed to trains and trams (even where the total journey time would theoretically be less) are as follows:

• On an unfamiliar route, difficulty in identifying the stop to get off at before it is too late (although the GM bus stops have location labels, they are often impossible to read from inside the bus in the dark or in wet weather. Using a train or tram, it is easy to identify the correct station/stop and the walking route from there to the destination)
• Waiting, especially for a connection, at a bus stop exposed to the weather and traffic fumes, as opposed to a station/tram stop that always has a shelter and sometimes a heated waiting room and toilet facilities
• Lack of information when a service is delayed or cancelled
• While waiting, the need to keep a constant lookout for the bus, in order to signal it to stop, rather than relaxing and reading to pass the time fruitfully
• Unreliability of bus connections, often with a long wait if missed - Traveline does not allow enough time for connections when the first service is delayed
• When travelling before 9:30 on a journey that requires a connection, the single rail fare (with railcard) is significantly less than two single bus fares or a daily ticket
• Lack of timetable coordination, either between different bus routes or between bus and rail, to facilitate connections
• For longer journeys, the bus route is often very roundabout and slow, due to loops through housing estates/villages to try to minimise everyone's walking distance to the nearest stop
• I prefer the exercise of a longer walk to/from the station/tram stop, rather than spending a similar time standing at a bus stop and sitting on a bus

From previous contributions to this thread, it is clear that all these issues (except perhaps the last one) can be solved, and indeed have been in other cities/countries. The required investment in the technology and infrastructure must be a fraction of that going into the new Metrolink lines in Greater Manchester.

 

[34D]

where the WY ticket allows you to travel on all Arriva Services in W Yorks ( so you can do Ponte- Wakefield-(Dewsbury) - Bradford ... )

Doesn't that ticket also allow you into SY?

 

[Aictos]

For me, I would prefer a complete rewrite of the timetable with everything being looked at from frequency to staff to buses to timetables.

1. Employ more staff especially drivers but also inspectors and RPIs.

2. Introduce Smartcard readers for RPIs to use aka like the blue Oystercard readers.

3. Increase the size of the bus fleet by buying more vehicles mostly double deckers.

4. Run a 10 minute frequency on all routes Monday to Saturday between 5am to 7pm then a 30 minute frequency between 7pm to 12am followed by a hourly service until 5am. Last bus on a Saturday night/Sunday morning would be able 2am though.

5. Run a 20 minute frequency on all routes on Sunday between 7am and 7pm followed by a 30 minute frequency between 7pm to 12am followed by a hourly service until 5am.

6. Introduce better Customer Information Systems on both buses and bus stops like London Buses have onboard.

7. Overhaul ticketing so you have a choice of singles, returns, day tickets, season tickets, family tickets.

8. Introduce a zonal system based on the Berlin system so everything inside the the city limits would be Zone 1 and Zone 2 for a certain distance outside the city limits in all directions.

9. All tickets would be inter operator accepted, so regardless of what operator is used they all use the same fare system.

10. Have much better integration with rail services by building a bus interchange much closer to the railway station with frequent services especially in the peaks to reduce the need for car ownership.

11. Relocate the bus information/ticket office with a purpose built office by taking over a un-used retail unit in the adjoining shopping centre and convert the old ticket office to be staff accommodation - this would make it easier for passengers to use.

 

[jon0844]

Just as I try and defend buses, I end up with another situation that only helps put people off using a bus.

Friday morning, Welwyn Garden City; went with my wife to her work to have breakfast in town and come back on the bus.

So, at around 0924 I get to WGC bus station - stop 6 - to get the Uno bus 601 to St Albans, stopping by my house. A great bus, as it's quick (compared to the train to Hatfield and then another bus from there). Not massively cheap; £2.40 for a 13 minute run - but convenience that a lot of people might not appreciate.

Anyway, it's up on the board as 'due 9mins' by which it means due to leave. No bus there at my stop (stop 6) but there's a bus further up with no number on the side or rear blind.

Nearer to 0930 I see the doors open and wonder why there aren't so many people by my stop as there were last time I caught it. So I walk up and inspect the front. Oh, it's my bus - at totally the wrong stand.

So I get on and joke about nearly missing her because she's at the wrong stop and she just laughs at me. Say where I want to go and she's confused - as she doesn't know the stop (which is the actual stop name that she'll later find on her touchscreen display). It's the stop opposite their own depot, but hey, last time I got it - most people were going much further.

Then she starts to move off, three minutes early but then stops further up at no stop. She then shouts out to another bus driver coming in 'what time is it?'. He says 0931 and she says 'my one says 0900' and laughs again. So, that's good, she doesn't know what time it is - so goodness knows what her system is saying in terms of whether she is supposed to leave or wait, and her +/- time on the journey itself (it's linked by GPS).

Anyway, long story short, had I not wandered over to this other bus, I'd have seen my bus due in 1 minute disappear and wonder where the hell it was. Had I called Uno, they'd have told me it was there and left on time (they say that by default, even if I've stood at a quiet stop with just one service for an hour and couldn't miss it - oh, no, it came by they'll say). It would then be another 30 minute wait, for me to hopefully see it come in and park wherever it feels like.

S**t like that just reinforces the belief that buses are not reliable and should be avoided at all costs - and all over something as simple as a driver not picking up passengers at the right stop. How bloody hard is that?!

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Doesn't that ticket also allow you into SY?

possibly, i know you can get towards Selby with them - basically it appears to be if it;s run by Arriva Yorkshire it counts rather than the tight boundary the leicester day ticket has for a similar 4 pound something rather than the 'midlands' day ticket at 6 pound ish ...

certainly the W Yorks day ticket would allow you to do the equivalent of Leicester - Melton on the 4 pound odd ticket where the leicester 4 pound odd day ticket is only valid to E Goscote and you'd need the 6 pound ' midlands' day ticket for Melton ...

 

[dvboy]

Some things I think would improve bus usage in Wolverhampton:

Real time information at all stops (currently only on selected routes) including information on delays and cancellations.

Timetables at stops to show the routes of services that call there on a map with all stops, not just a few random select stops in a straight line.

CLEAN BUSES. This means regular deep cleaning, nightly cleaning and drivers or termimus-based cleaners removing litter regularly throughout the day. New vehicles seem to deteriorate quickly due to lack of basic maintenance. This is mainly aimed at National Express.

Later running services. I don't mean all night every night but even just until midnight-1am, or later on Friday/Saturday nights on key routes.

Not running early. The number of times I've missed a bus because it ran early...

Scrapping of cross-city services that do not serve the bus station. Split them back up into their previous services and use the bus station for interchanges with other services. Longer distance services are more likely to suffer from delays. Who wants to travel right through from Tettenhall to Sedgley or vice versa anyway?

A circular route around the city similar to Birmingham's 11.

I don't think there's a problem with the fares. They are exact change only but with a flat single fare of £2 this isn't really a problem. Smart cards will improve things provided there is a daily cap function like Oyster.

 

[moogal]

• I prefer the exercise of a longer walk to/from the station/tram stop, rather than spending a similar time standing at a bus stop and sitting on a bus

I find that depends - it's fine if you're just going to/from work or a social visit, but when coming from a shopping trip with heavy bags then having a bus route stop near to your house is a big advantage!

 

[SF-02]

Less padding in timetables. I can understand some but there is way too much in pretty much all bus services I have recently used in Bristol, Liverpool, and Cambridge. As such buses are very slow. I usually travel around 10am counter flow when the roads are empty, or late at night after 9 pm, and buses avoid the very expensively introduced bus lanes and priority lights as would get ahead of schedule (and this often happens at peak time as well), yet still park up for 5 minutes at a time.

Such slow journeys do nothing to get people out of cars. I just feel as though if I will have a slow and long journey I'd rather do it in my own car, even if it is in traffic.

 

[Deerfold]

For me, I would prefer a complete rewrite of the timetable with everything being looked at from frequency to staff to buses to timetables.

1. Employ more staff especially drivers but also inspectors and RPIs.

2. Introduce Smartcard readers for RPIs to use aka like the blue Oystercard readers.

3. Increase the size of the bus fleet by buying more vehicles mostly double deckers.

4. Run a 10 minute frequency on all routes Monday to Saturday between 5am to 7pm then a 30 minute frequency between 7pm to 12am followed by a hourly service until 5am. Last bus on a Saturday night/Sunday morning would be able 2am though.

5. Run a 20 minute frequency on all routes on Sunday between 7am and 7pm followed by a 30 minute frequency between 7pm to 12am followed by a hourly service until 5am.

6. Introduce better Customer Information Systems on both buses and bus stops like London Buses have onboard.

7. Overhaul ticketing so you have a choice of singles, returns, day tickets, season tickets, family tickets.

8. Introduce a zonal system based on the Berlin system so everything inside the the city limits would be Zone 1 and Zone 2 for a certain distance outside the city limits in all directions.

9. All tickets would be inter operator accepted, so regardless of what operator is used they all use the same fare system.

10. Have much better integration with rail services by building a bus interchange much closer to the railway station with frequent services especially in the peaks to reduce the need for car ownership.

11. Relocate the bus information/ticket office with a purpose built office by taking over a un-used retail unit in the adjoining shopping centre and convert the old ticket office to be staff accommodation - this would make it easier for passengers to use.

Hmm nice dream, but you're never going to have every route being worth running every ten minutes on. Even TfL have routes that run hourly or less often during the day and only cover about 25% of the network overnight - but close enough to most people that using buses is viable.

Increasing much beyond that would be ruinously expensive.

Are you talking about buses in a particular area? Point 11 sems very specific.

Oyster readers are yellow (or pink for interchange on some train routes), not blue.

Double deckers are more expensive to run and don't really benefit the bus passenger unless a frequent service is already very busy - TfL tends to increase bus frequency until it's every 10 minutes and then if capacity is too low it goes for larger buses.

I think you'd need a lot of advertising as well or you'll have put in a hugh amount of investment and the average car driver would know little to nothing about it (apart from perhaps more buses getting in their way).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some things I think would improve bus usage in Wolverhampton:

Real time information at all stops (currently only on selected routes) including information on delays and cancellations.

Timetables at stops to show the routes of services that call there on a map with all stops, not just a few random select stops in a straight line.

CLEAN BUSES. This means regular deep cleaning, nightly cleaning and drivers or termimus-based cleaners removing litter regularly throughout the day. New vehicles seem to deteriorate quickly due to lack of basic maintenance. This is mainly aimed at National Express.

Later running services. I don't mean all night every night but even just until midnight-1am, or later on Friday/Saturday nights on key routes.

Not running early. The number of times I've missed a bus because it ran early...

Scrapping of cross-city services that do not serve the bus station. Split them back up into their previous services and use the bus station for interchanges with other services. Longer distance services are more likely to suffer from delays. Who wants to travel right through from Tettenhall to Sedgley or vice versa anyway?

A circular route around the city similar to Birmingham's 11.

I don't think there's a problem with the fares. They are exact change only but with a flat single fare of £2 this isn't really a problem. Smart cards will improve things provided there is a daily cap function like Oyster.

As, I've mentioned before real time information is expensive to provide. TfL regard putting a sign up and maintaining it for 10 years (including all costs) to be about £10,000. There's bound to be stops where that's not worth doing. TfL has 2500 signs at over 19,000 stops, about 1 in 7.

If buses are regularly running early complain to the traffic commisioner. They come down hard on that sort of thing if they know about it. There's many excuses for running late but few for running early.

I know I'd find later buses a huge help. There seems to have been a creep in many areas for last buses to get earlier and earlier despite places being visit in the evening opening later and later.

My last bus has gone from 2340 to 2300 to 2250 to 2240 in the last five years - and I realise I'm a long way from the worst story like that.

The village I grew up in has gone from having a last bus at 2300 to having one at 2320 which sounds like an improvement except it goes via a completely different route which is only served every 2 hours - the last one on the regular route is at 2150 (and hourly instead of half-hourly). Virtually no-one seems to catch the bus for a night out now despite them being very busy 15 years ago.

And they're both in relatively lucky PTE areas.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Superb bus

Care to share why you think that? It's about £100,000 more than other comparable buses with higher staff costs, much lower capacity on the lower floor and lower capacity overall.

 

[Manchester77]

I think iBus style technology on buses would encourage people who aren't familiar with an area to use the bus. Also especially at busy stops PIDs with the next few departures would be helpful. Then if a text to find where your bus is would also help people. This is probably what everyone has said but that's just my two pence worth

 

[jon0844]

Information is key for sure, and then perhaps smartcards and - like London - being able to pay with a contactless debit/credit card.

How many people wouldn't get on a bus because they're under the impression they need exact money and either don't have loose change or don't know how much it will be (or both)?

If you can just jump on and pay no matter what, that's one big barrier overcome.

Then you need to know where you're going, and good maps/timetables can help with that at the bus stops or via an app.

Some of our local stops now have NFC embedded tags (although I've not managed to get it to work) which will link you to an app to get information - but in the case of HCC, the app is pretty ropey (it can't identify your local stop for example, but brings up a map at a terrible scale - such that you'll see just about every bus stop in the town!) but nothing that can't be fixed if someone who knew what they were doing got involved.

Then, once on the bus, that arrives either on time or late (never early) and at the right bus stop, you have an indication inside that states the next stop coming up so you won't miss it (and why not have the same LED display scrolling to show local places/attractions?) and all of a sudden you have a bus service that people can feel comfortable using whether out of towners/tourists or local residents who have simply yet to take the plunge.

 

[Manchester77]

Yeah that's a point, on the side of all the stagecoach Mancehster buses I've seen it tells you to have the exact change which I've seen put people off. If these weren't on I'd imagine people get the bus.

Also even if not maps if you could use an iBus system to display the next stop so there's not a frantic rush when it comes up so this stop: XYZ next stop: ABC

 

[jon0844]

Information screens on buses should be compulsory, not a nice aspiration. The same system will then provide real time information to anyone that has a phone with Internet access, or on a screen at the bus stop (I do accept that not all stops could justify having a display - but at least have a QR code/NFC tag/SMS shortcode for people to use to get information).

Many bus operators around the world have had them for many, many years so it's not new and shouldn't be expensive technology either. I guess the only real cost is recording the names, if you're not going to use a text-to-speech system.

It has made a MASSIVE difference in London I have no doubt. I've opted to take more buses in 'unknown' parts of town because I know know when to press stop and get off. Otherwise I might guess and stop way early, or miss my stop (and that's assuming I know I have because I wanted to go somewhere I would recognise).

In other towns and cities around the UK, I'd sooner walk than take a bus as I wouldn't have a clue. Some drivers are dead friendly and will tell someone 'this is your stop' but some won't and I've been on buses where a driver has innocently forgotten (in one case, on our local bus, the driver actually went around the next roundabout and back to the stop, but that's all down to how good your driver is).

Buses need to be run as close as possible to trains to give confidence. Modern buses are not dirty and smelly, or uncomfortable, so more people should feel comfortable to use them.

 

[causton]

Information is key for sure, and then perhaps smartcards and - like London - being able to pay with a contactless debit/credit card.

How many people wouldn't get on a bus because they're under the impression they need exact money and either don't have loose change or don't know how much it will be (or both)?

If you can just jump on and pay no matter what, that's one big barrier overcome.

Then you need to know where you're going, and good maps/timetables can help with that at the bus stops or via an app.

Some of our local stops now have NFC embedded tags (although I've not managed to get it to work) which will link you to an app to get information - but in the case of HCC, the app is pretty ropey (it can't identify your local stop for example, but brings up a map at a terrible scale - such that you'll see just about every bus stop in the town!) but nothing that can't be fixed if someone who knew what they were doing got involved.

Then, once on the bus, that arrives either on time or late (never early) and at the right bus stop, you have an indication inside that states the next stop coming up so you won't miss it (and why not have the same LED display scrolling to show local places/attractions?) and all of a sudden you have a bus service that people can feel comfortable using whether out of towners/tourists or local residents who have simply yet to take the plunge.

Agreed.

I have managed to get the NFC links to open, however obviously they are not smart enough to get it to open up the Intalink app which shows the same information! And agreed, unless you have GPS on all the time you have to scroll in from a full map of Hertfordshire to your chosen stop, which is unlabelled so if you don't know what services are supposed to depart from there you won't know.

Payment is not usually so bad I reckon, the only problem is people still trying to get on with Travelcards.

I'm wondering if the "new" ticket machines allow an iBus-style screen to be introduced to the bus with the next stop showing?


And agreed wrt reliability, sometimes the buses can be 13 minutes early (!) and sometimes they can be up to 10 minutes late at 1am?!?

 

[radamfi]

Of course, next stop indicators should be compulsory. I won't listen to excuses about expense. They have been standard in mainland Europe for years.

I use the excellent Bus Scout app so I no longer miss the stop in an unfamiliar location, however I shouldn't need it.

 

[jon0844]

I see my bus now waiting if it's early but I guess not every driver will. In theory you could report the driver and the system logs would prove your case, but I'd still expect Uno to palm people off!

I think the ticket machines will easily interface to a display. They're made by Init I believe so there must be a website.

 

[starrymarkb]

I'm off to Leipzig later this week for a large event. The event organisers offer free travel on the cities public transport to attendees so I'll be using it a lot. But experiences of the LVB network from previous years.

1. Large info kiosk outside main station selling tickets and providing information
2. Next stop announcements on all vehicles with LED display on older vehicles. Important announcements for major stops/terminus/farestages are also in English and French
3. Newer vehicles have pairs of LCD montitors showing the service, destination and next 3 stops on one screen and promotions, events and planned disruption on the other
4. Separate night network of circulars departing from the station at 1:11, 2:22 and 3:33 - with extras on Friday and Sat Nights
5. For the event extra services are run on one route, with an additional route operating to link venues. Both enhanced and additional route run overnight up to every 8 mins! Timetables for the amended service are posted at all stops and are personalised to the individual stop. Also a proper route number sticker is added to the stop signs on the special route's erm route.
6. Most buses in the city centre are Hybrids, either MAN or HESS, the trams are electric of course.
7. Routes that are affected by road closures have a "Construction Beaver" sticker attached to the stop signs, notices explaining the disruption are attached in the shelter. There is also a statue of the beaver with a slot to hold a poster size notice of works outside the info office
8. The company's website has a working journey planner that looks like it runs a version of the Traveline MDV system. But as it's just covering one city it works well unlike Traveline!)

 

[Deerfold]

Of course, next stop indicators should be compulsory. I won't listen to excuses about expense. They have been standard in mainland Europe for years.

I use the excellent Bus Scout app so I no longer miss the stop in an unfamiliar location, however I shouldn't need it.

Yes, you've been arguing this for a long time and refusing to believe it when I say it *is* expensive. Refusing to listen to what people are saying is not a very useful argumental style.

It is getting cheaper - larger because at last standards are being developed so it will be possible to buy parts of a system from different manufacturers rather than comitting to one company's products.

I'd say I'd expect it to be cheap enough to be standard issue on a bus in perhaps 10 to 20 years (especially as manufacturers get used to installing it as part of the build as they do with buses bound for London).

Information screens on buses need a lot more than just a GPS system to locate the bus.

In mainland europe routes and timetables change infrequently which reduces the costs of maintaining the system. They have also taken the decision that it's worth installing the systems, largely on a non-commercial basis.

Outside of London systems really need to be co-ordinated by the local authorities but as the buses are largely not controlled by them they cannot control the costs and it's difficult for them to ensure the driver puts correct information into the system (without which the system will not know where the bus is going) and ensure that new buses are fitted in a reasonable timescale.

 

[jon0844]

I accept there's a cost, but it could well be a cost that pays for itself very quickly if patronage increases.

Having more information to make people feel comfortable, as well as more innovative ways to pay, could (and should) have a massive difference on making buses as easy to take as a train, or even as an alternative to taking a taxi (higher cost, but people will often prefer over what they perceive as a slow, dirty, unreliable bus).

To roll out, councils need to back systems and ultimately such systems need to be compulsory for a bus to operate, such as having low-floor access and a space for wheelchairs. In due course, I am sure it will happen too - so our only disagreement comes from deciding when that time will come.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the ticket machines will easily interface to a display. They're made by Init I believe so there must be a website.

The standard fit on new buses for Nottingham City Transport is at least partly made by Init and includes ticket machines, on-board displays and audible announcements as well as information feed to stop displays, website etc. They have probably saved a bit of money on recent ones by putting the stop names on the flat screen that also shows the CCTV pictures instead of having a dedicated LED display for them.

 

[jon0844]

That's good to know. I hope that the machines on Uno (and presumably being installed to other buses running services on behalf of Herts County Council) will therefore allow the addition of screens in the coming months.

 

[radamfi]

Yes, you've been arguing this for a long time and refusing to believe it when I say it *is* expensive. Refusing to listen to what people are saying is not a very useful argumental style.

I'm only interested in having world class public transport. That requires investment. The Dutch, Swiss etc. have made it easy for us as we just need to copy what they are doing. We don't have to think.

If we aren't prepared to do the investment, or even look at what our neighbours are doing, then we are basically wasting our time.

In mainland europe routes and timetables change infrequently which reduces the costs of maintaining the system. They have also taken the decision that it's worth installing the systems, largely on a non-commercial basis.

Outside of London systems really need to be co-ordinated by the local authorities but as the buses are largely not controlled by them they cannot control the costs and it's difficult for them to ensure the driver puts correct information into the system (without which the system will not know where the bus is going) and ensure that new buses are fitted in a reasonable timescale.

If you end deregulation (which is really a pre-requisite for a wholesale improvement in buses, arguably you are wasting your time if you don't end deregulation) then timetable changes can be restricted to certain times of year. Indeed, Dutch, Swiss and Belgian timetables change the same day as the train times, once a year.

 

[plannerman]

My biggest bugbear about bus travel is how hard it is to find ticket prices. My local operator has mases of publicity about their daily and weekly prices, but it is impossible to find the price of a simple A-B single ticket. Combine this with the fear that the driver won't take a fiver/tenner because he'll 'want the correct fare', which of course is impossible to find out in advance, and it becomes an offputting problem.

I don't understand how simple fares matrixes can't be put into all company websites. Simple drop down menus with 'from' and 'to', and there's the fare. Simple.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Routes that are affected by road closures have a "Construction Beaver" sticker attached to the stop signs, notices explaining the disruption are attached in the shelter. There is also a statue of the beaver with a slot to hold a poster size notice of works outside the info office

I you sure it's a beaver and not a mole?

 

[transmanche]

There's many excuses for running late but few for running early.

I'd say there are no excuses for running early!

 

[radamfi]

My biggest bugbear about bus travel is how hard it is to find ticket prices. My local operator has mases of publicity about their daily and weekly prices, but it is impossible to find the price of a simple A-B single ticket. Combine this with the fear that the driver won't take a fiver/tenner because he'll 'want the correct fare', which of course is impossible to find out in advance, and it becomes an offputting problem.

I don't understand how simple fares matrixes can't be put into all company websites. Simple drop down menus with 'from' and 'to', and there's the fare. Simple.

www.9292ov.nl gives you the price of any journey within the Netherlands. It will also tell you about season tickets and money saving possibilities, such as regional day tickets. They show it can be done even on a national basis.
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I'd say there are no excuses for running early!

Early running is easily policed by GPS tracking. Since Metrobus started using GPS tracking on all routes, even rural ones running every 2 hours, I don't think I've seen them run early. I certainly don't bother getting to the stop 10 minutes before departure like I used to.

 

[Deerfold]

I'd say there are no excuses for running early!

I considered putting no excuses but thought someone would be sure to pull me up with an example involving an earthquake or terrorist attack or some such.
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I'm only interested in having world class public transport. That requires investment. The Dutch, Swiss etc. have made it easy for us as we just need to copy what they are doing. We don't have to think.

If we aren't prepared to do the investment, or even look at what our neighbours are doing, then we are basically wasting our time.

If you end deregulation (which is really a pre-requisite for a wholesale improvement in buses, arguably you are wasting your time if you don't end deregulation) then timetable changes can be restricted to certain times of year. Indeed, Dutch, Swiss and Belgian timetables change the same day as the train times, once a year.

Previously however you'd suggested requiring this investment from the private companies which is a different thing entirely.

The problem with this thread is there's two things being argued:

1. What would be the perfect situation

2. What can be done under the current framework.

I agree it'd be ideal to reregulate bus travel or allow private companies to run under a franchise system like London's with local authorities having proper budgets for things like real-time information systems.

However at the moment outside of PTE areas and London things like that are competing with the cost of road repairs / social services / keeping libraries open.

Under the current system, making providing real-time information mandatory would result in a lot of bus services disappearing.