Greater Anglia Unit Failures

[dk1]

As Abellio is owned by the Dutch State Railway, I didn't think it had any shareholders.

 

[Dave1987]

As long as they run a decent enough service to maintain their profit and that the DFT don't blacklist them - why would they spend shareholders money for the sake of passengers.

If I was a shareholder and found out the managers had approved large sums for no return - I would not be too impressed.

The fact the DFT have paid little attention to the moaning on twitter must surely show GA are running a fairly decent service and they are just constrained by a very short franchise. They are hardly going to splash the cash when they could lose it.

 

[TheEdge]

Argh, no, don't let logic get in the way of the rant!

I think I've said this several times but don't blame GA/Abellio/Ruud Haket/that chap who mans the barriers at Ipswich for the current state of affairs. Blame NX for running the operation into the ground and then the DfT for awarding then pointlessly extending a short franchise.

No right minded company is going to commit millions to something they may see no return on!

 

[CockneySparrow]

Still think it is cheeky to announce Norwich trains as "9 carriages instead of 10" or even "8 carriages instead of 10"- those numbers include the DVT, which to a passenger is definitely not a carriage!

You can always stand in there lol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Exactly what I was going to say. Especially the bit about yard storage.

12.30up failed today causing chaos to late afternoon departures from London & those trying to get to NCFCs evening game at Carrow Road. Add to the earlier Cambridge line fatality knocking out 156 after this mornings 170 shortage & temporary failure of the short set covering locals & it's been a pretty rubbish day all round.

Thought GA got rid of that short set on drag that bombs to Yarmouth and back in emergencies
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The dutch lot's only responsibility is to make a decent return for their shareholders, it is the DFT's responsibility to ensure a decent service can be provided. After the National Express disaster where they pocketed the money they should have spent on train repair this is far less than passengers deserve.

Realistically the 90's and Mk3's should be in line for replacement as they appear not to be a long term solution. Hand them back to the Rosco and add to the Hitachi order.

Yeah and pay Rosco more in lease fees, which will be passed on
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Last time I came past Ilford depot there were aprox 4 Mk3 s dumped at the back
A clear thinking fat controler would have refurbed them first so they could be put in service to allow 4 coaches to be refurbed with no impact on service
when the project is finished there would be spare stock to make up to 9 the remaining 8 car sets
also they should have 3 mk3 1st class coaches from the disbanded set used to make up the 9 car sets
I so wish I was the fat controler I would sort things out..May cost a bit but the Dutch railways can afford it

Aren't those carriages beyond repair, they are probably empty shells by now just waiting to have the last seat or toilet removed and placed in operational coaches

 

[colchesterken]

My only comment on that is that if the preservationists can restore barry wrecks to main line condition I am sure Iflord with all their resorses could patch them up as good as new

 

[CockneySparrow]

My only comment on that is that if the preservationists can restore barry wrecks to main line condition I am sure Iflord with all their resorses could patch them up as good as new

Sure they could, but that's not the reason they are there, they are there for the purpose of being donors

 

[samuelmorris]

Preservationists do it for the love of the job and the result though, not because it's worthwhile from a man hours or/therefore a cost perspective.
The Mk 3s look very tatty now, and in an ideal world could probably do with a bit of a spring clean and powered doors, but the Mk 3 coach is still very highly regarded by many railway pundits, and as for seat count, bear in mind their sole use in the timetable is for journeys with a minimum duration of 30 minutes, often 45+ for a majority of punters, having a Mk 3 seating layout rather than a 3+2 commuter style crush will be considered welcome by most, especially since it won't do much to help the occasions when there's a huge amount of standees, as most will still be standing.

If they match the reliability figures of the rolling stock that's not going anywhere any time soon (even if the projected MBTI is forecast to go up after a refurbishment) and they provide a suitable balance of comfort/capacity for the job, why get rid of them?
If on the other hand they aren't reliable (after all, silver spanner just marks improvement does it not? You could go from abysmal to mediocre but no further and get one!) and it's as much the Mk 3s to blame as the locos, perhaps it is high time they looked at replacing them. If it's just the locos that will drag the performance down, I'm sure that's not insurmountable. Then again, losing two platform spaces to vehicles that can't carry passengers is a bit of an anachronism these days.

As of the start of the year I'm monitoring journey reliability on GA vs c2c to see what the actual outcome is compared with general perceptions. Granted, I travel on c2c more often, partly because of that conception third, but also primarily because of the air-conditioned rolling stock second and massively cheaper fares first.

GA is my local railway, but for the reasons above I travel quite some distance to Upminster to use c2c. It dovetails with someone else's road journey so there are no parking charges to pay, and the difference between £27 and £73 per week! However, for that reason, prior to working in the city in late 2011 (and starting using c2c early 2012), the Great Eastern was the only line I really used. In that time, I can recall being on three unit failures, all in a fairly similar period of time in 2004-2006 during my school commute days. One each of a 315 (failed after boarding at Shenfield - unknown cause, but the pantograph was lowered), 321 (failed after boarding at Shenfield on service to Braintree - 321362, don't ask me why I can remember that ) and 360 (failed en-route from Clacton to Colchester - one door controller crashed and left the sounder beeping away with the door closed, and presumably flagged a door open in the cab, as the guard came and locked the door out of use - they still saw fit to withdraw the london-bound service at Colchester for that too!)

That is actually it for failures while on board I believe. Considering the number of times I've used the line since, I can't say the rate of failures is too high. What I would say though is that timetabling/signalling/pathing, whatever it is, still leaves a lot to be desired. A considerable majority (at least 70%, possibly more) of services on the fast GE lines are late by 2-3 minutes or more. That's not a day-ruiner really, though it can be annoying if it causes you to miss a connecting tube that's not very frequent, but it does give off a pretty negative impression, and I do have to add a few minutes of 'delay time' into my journeys on GA, whereas I don't bother on c2c. If it happens, it happens.
This situation has got no worse with GA vs NXEA, but hasn't really got any better either.

I've not much majorly against Abellio for their management of 'what they're given to work with', I think their livery management is very slapdash (e.g. reliverying units but not even putting their name on, and making subtle alterations to the livery for no obvious reason), but that's not really high up on the list of priorities. The stock does look very dirty compared to a lot of other TOCs, but again, appearance. As far as level of service offered goes, as a GE customer I don't have too much to complain about. Perhaps WA customers or people living further northeast would have something different to say
The only change I was annoyed by was the removal of the direct Peterborough service. I can understand its removal, but it was handy for a couple of people I know to commute from Colchester to Peterborough on a single train. I would have at least thought they could make the Ipswich - Peterborough service 1tph after killing off the direct link to London. Apparently not.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Must say I like the 170s I can sit at a table really relaxed, same with the slam door carriages, hate the 317s and the 379s although better than the 317s the seats are really hard and interior very cheap, the gimmicky door buts are broken in every carriage, the arm rests are easily vandalised

 

[dk1]

Thought GA got rid of that short set on drag that bombs to Yarmouth and back in emergencies

Where have you been??

 

[Wivenswold]

So why is the stock "knackered"? The 360's are only 10 years old. There have been quite a few failures of the GSMR cab radio recently.

Granted the 360s are only 10 years old and they rarely break down to my knowledge, the Anglia trains (as I still call them) have also improved remarkably but the majority of peak trains from the East side of Liverpool Street are 315s or 321s and the latter seem to be in desperate need of some TLC. GA have improved cleanliness of the interiors which is a positive though.

I totally agree the problem lies with the DfT and their "light touch management" of the railways. Passengers should direct their ire at the government and in particular should be asking what they are going to do about increasing reliability and capacity on the lines into Liverpool Street. With huge housing developments planned for Essex it's only going to get worse.

 

[samuelmorris]

Is the reliability of the 321s really that bad? I'd be interested to see what the current stats are about that.

 

[iphone76]

I'm currently on the delayed 09.02 from Liverpool Street which has been held up behind the 09.00 to Norwich which has developed a fault. Yay!

 

[dk1]

I'm currently on the delayed 09.02 from Liverpool Street which has been held up behind the 09.00 to Norwich which has developed a fault. Yay!

Wasn't too bad. Just de-configured at Shenfield neutral. Don't want to talk it up but I've not de-configured for over 3 years.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Where have you been??

I've been to Norwich several times in the last 18 months and ain't seen it, it used to be parked up in the siding next to the station, failing that at Crown Point, just ain't seen it

 

[TheEdge]

I've been to Norwich several times in the last 18 months and ain't seen it, it used to be parked up in the siding next to the station, failing that at Crown Point, just ain't seen it

I've been at Norwich today, yesterday, the day before, the day before that and so on. Its been out almost every day for the last week and on and off for the last few weeks. I worked it on Saturday.

And so on.

 

[dk1]

I've been to Norwich several times in the last 18 months and ain't seen it, it used to be parked up in the siding next to the station, failing that at Crown Point, just ain't seen it

Well Norwich drivers are being trained on 37/4s in 6wks time. DBSOs return too hopefully.

 

[david_VI]

Well Norwich drivers are being trained on 37/4s in 6wks time. DBSOs return too hopefully.

Excuse me?! This must be a joke that i've missed.

 

[43074]

Well Norwich drivers are being trained on 37/4s in 6wks time. DBSOs return too hopefully.

Are these in preparation for the Yarmouth Drags or just more traction knowledge for the DMU standby? Which TOCs 37/4s will be used as well?

 

[dk1]

Are these in preparation for the Yarmouth Drags or just more traction knowledge for the DMU standby? Which TOCs 37/4s will be used as well?

Replacement contract for the DRS 47s. More should come out over the next few days. Sounds superb news to me. Should also give a couple more coaches back to the Mainline fleet to bolster things & stem the understandable backlash from commuters for the poorly managed overcrowding seen due to short formations.

 

[david_VI]

Replacement contract for the DRS 47s. More should come out over the next few days. Sounds superb news to me. Should also give a couple more coaches back to the Mainline fleet to bolster things & stem the understandable backlash from commuters for the poorly managed overcrowding seen due to short formations.

Won't be replacing the DRS 47 that was used for thunderbird duties as a 90 now does it?

 

[dk1]

Won't be replacing the DRS 47 that was used for thunderbird duties as a 90 now does it?

When we've got one. Nothing to do with Thunderbirds just the Thunderbird Drivers Link.

 

[43074]

Replacement contract for the DRS 47s. More should come out over the next few days. Sounds superb news to me. Should also give a couple more coaches back to the Mainline fleet to bolster things & stem the understandable backlash from commuters for the poorly managed overcrowding seen due to short formations.

Yes I agree it's excellent news. Should make a nice change from 47s we've had for the past few years too and hopefully they'll be more reliable, especially after last year's shocking performance on the Yarmouth drags.

 

[samuelmorris]

You know things are getting bad when you're using 50 year old technology to improve reliability

 

[306024]

..........What I would say though is that timetabling/signalling/pathing, whatever it is, still leaves a lot to be desired. A considerable majority (at least 70%, possibly more) of services on the fast GE lines are late by 2-3 minutes or more. That's not a day-ruiner really, though it can be annoying if it causes you to miss a connecting tube that's not very frequent, but it does give off a pretty negative impression, and I do have to add a few minutes of 'delay time' into my journeys on GA, whereas I don't bother on c2c. If it happens, it happens. This situation has got no worse with GA vs NXEA, but hasn't really got any better either.

The only [timetable] change I was annoyed by was the removal of the direct Peterborough service. I can understand its removal, but it was handy for a couple of people I know to commute from Colchester to Peterborough on a single train. I would have at least thought they could make the Ipswich - Peterborough service 1tph after killing off the direct link to London. Apparently not.

That whole post was a fair and balanced assessment. Picking out the two paragraphs above:

The timetabling/pathing is known to be tight, to the point that some would like to see trains removed to improve punctuality. That does nothing for passenger capacity, with many trains already full and standing. Inevitably the morning timetable relies on Norwich trains being on time to the minute, while everything else follows. However they have trains that connect into them that are vulnerable to freight delays between Chippenham Jn / Westerfield and Ipswich, and of course the Norwich trains have slam doors making them more difficult to despatch. And quite simply Norwich trains have a lot further to come from, so more potential for delays, eg ahb failures. c2c has far less external influence on it's operation.

Ipswich - Peterborough hourly needs two more DMUs. Simply none available, people have tried.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Replacement contract for the DRS 47s. More should come out over the next few days. Sounds superb news to me. Should also give a couple more coaches back to the Mainline fleet to bolster things & stem the understandable backlash from commuters for the poorly managed overcrowding seen due to short formations.

Where are the couple of coaches coming from to give back

If the 37s are replacing the 47s on the short set that consists of 2 coaches and a DVT then there won't be nothing for the 37s to drag lol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ipswich - Peterborough hourly needs two more DMUs. Simply none available, people have tried.

Is there a case for hourly between Ipswich and Peterborough

If they can't get customers on the 2 hourly service then I guess there isn't a strong enough case to run more empty trains around

Suppose the fares between Ely & Bury and Ely & March dont encourage people to travel by train either, its cheaper and easier to use the car

 

[dk1]

You know things are getting bad when you're using 50 year old technology to improve reliability

But we are using 50 year old technology anyway with 47s. Problem is units away at works & generally no give in the availability since East Suffolk went hourly. Can't see any other more modern option for Yarmouth drags this Summer unless e go for 67s or 68s which are not on the cards. These trains will only run 'peak weeks' like they used to & not the whole length of the Summer timetable period.

Not sure who's providing the DBSO but the coaches will come with the contract probably through WCR similar to the Workington set up.

 

[jopsuk]

As things are a bit confusing: are the 37s coming from DRS complete with carriages including a DBSO, or is that a load of crossed wires just there?

 

[dk1]

As things are a bit confusing: are the 37s coming from DRS complete with carriages including a DBSO, or is that a load of crossed wires just there?

I think that is the plan. Just waiting confirmation mate.

 

[CockneySparrow]

As things are a bit confusing: are the 37s coming from DRS complete with carriages including a DBSO, or is that a load of crossed wires just there?

but those carriages won't be used for the summer timetabled drags though

 

[dk1]

Wonder if the off the wire 379 trials will be sucessfull enough to run through to/from Great Yarmouth thus making the drags redundant eventually.