Greater Anglia Unit Failures

[Wivenswold]

It's become evident over the last 4 or 5 months that there's something up at GA. We had the understandable issues after the St. Jude's Storm when certain services were booked as short-formed while a large number of units had pantograph repairs, but there are still big problems.

I can't remember the last time I walked through Liverpool Street on my way home and didn't here an announcement about a cancellation, delay or short form due to unit failure. I was 15 late into LST this morning due to a broken-down train.

What's going on? I know the stock is knackered but why is it so prevalent all of a sudden?

 

[jopsuk]

To demonstrate, at this time this morning there's 4 Train Cancellations, 3 Other Service Updates (delays, not calling at etc) and 36 Train Formation Updates (mainly London-Norwich hauled Mark 3 services, but some unit services too)

 

[alholmes]

Details here about the cause of short formations on the Norwich services:

http://www.greateranglia.co.uk/abou...ch-intercity-services-an-update-for-customers

 

[Dave1987]

It's become evident over the last 4 or 5 months that there's something up at GA. We had the understandable issues after the St. Jude's Storm when certain services were booked as short-formed while a large number of units had pantograph repairs, but there are still big problems.

I can't remember the last time I walked through Liverpool Street on my way home and didn't here an announcement about a cancellation, delay or short form due to unit failure. I was 15 late into LST this morning due to a broken-down train.

What's going on? I know the stock is knackered but why is it so prevalent all of a sudden?

So why is the stock "knackered"? The 360's are only 10 years old. There have been quite a few failures of the GSMR cab radio recently.

 

[doris]

Service has gone completely down the pan over last 6 months. No money being invested + various cost saving activities like overtime bans etc.

Paint jobs at the expense of fixing traction motors and fixing the leaking roof seals in half the mk3s is a joke.

Not hiring in mk3s from elsewhere to prop up the ldn-nor whilst paint jobs ongoing is another example of penny pinching / poor management.

Complaints to mp's / dft etc have gone through the roof of late, so let's hope we see the back of the Dutch lot sooner rather than later. Trouble is the same inept middle management will stay.

 

[jopsuk]

Still think it is cheeky to announce Norwich trains as "9 carriages instead of 10" or even "8 carriages instead of 10"- those numbers include the DVT, which to a passenger is definitely not a carriage!

 

[Pugwash]

The lack of investment in rolling stock goes back to national express, sticking plasters go on every time instead of a full over haul, this combined with that there is not enough reserve or spare stock to allow trains to go away for a full overhaul.

GA need to realise their fleet utilisation rate is not sustainable.

 

[317666]

GA need to realise their fleet utilisation rate is not sustainable.

It probably wouldn't have been quite as bad if they hadn't sent all the 317/7s off-lease :roll: Presumably more cost-cutting as they were expensive to lease.

With regards to DVTs being counted as a coach, perhaps passengers should try to sit in the luggage compartment and explain to the guard that the announcements said it was a coach

 

[jopsuk]

What should happen (for passengers sake):
The new franchise to be let on a long franchise with the requirment that a substantial fleet upgrade be carried out, without large ticket price hikes. In fantasy world:
a 317 & 321 "super refurb", using the new gangway cab design proposed for the 319s, to a single common standard, allowing them to be used a single fleet. As part of this, bring in the FCC, LM and Northern 317, 321 & 322 fleets, giving up the 360s. All air conditioned, wifi, AC motors, plug sockets (and in my fantasy world, no 1st class).

Mark 3 fleet: Take up one of the "Driving carriage instead of DVT" options. Expand fleet so that all formations are "10 carriage", all with the same 1st/catering/standard configuration. Power doors. Plug sockets. Wifi.

Diesel fleet: Use cascades, swaps etc to standardise fleet to a single class, mix of 2 & 3 car units- probably 170s. Single class, as with the EMU fleet.


What will actually happen:
Operator will get away with minimal fleet investment but big ticket hikes.

 

[slick]

I cant account for the GE side but on the west anglia we have had dozens of failures recently related to GSMR radio. Basically there has been a software upgrade accross alot of the fleet and according to our fitters there were still bugs in the update which causes a GSMR failure code to arise which in turn makes the unit unfit for service. Ive had more train failures recentley due to GSMR problems than I have in past 5 years with other problems combined. 2 weeks ago there were four in one day on the 315s.

 

[Dave1987]

Service has gone completely down the pan over last 6 months. No money being invested + various cost saving activities like overtime bans etc.

Paint jobs at the expense of fixing traction motors and fixing the leaking roof seals in half the mk3s is a joke.

Not hiring in mk3s from elsewhere to prop up the ldn-nor whilst paint jobs ongoing is another example of penny pinching / poor management.

Complaints to mp's / dft etc have gone through the roof of late, so let's hope we see the back of the Dutch lot sooner rather than later. Trouble is the same inept middle management will stay.

Overtime bans? Where did you get that from?

I believe the mk3 are being reprinted while they have a major maintenance done.

Also there have been a few chips found in pantographs recently.

 

[Pugwash]

so let's hope we see the back of the Dutch lot sooner rather than later. Trouble is the same inept middle management will stay.

It's not the fault of the 'dutch lot' the DFT will award the franchise to whoever offers to pay them the most money, the GA franchise pays out millions to the DFT every year, and the DFT will want to maximise that. Most of the MP's are in safe seats - so don't expect them to care.

 

[87015]

It's not the fault of the 'dutch lot' the DFT will award the franchise to whoever offers to pay them the most money, the GA franchise pays out millions to the DFT every year, and the DFT will want to maximise that. Most of the MP's are in safe seats - so don't expect them to care.

And its not 'middle management' but much higher up that at Abellio that a)signed up to pay big money back and b)won't spend anything they don't have to...

 

[dk1]

With regards to DVTs being counted as a coach, perhaps passengers should try to sit in the luggage compartment and explain to the guard that the announcements said it was a coach

They can try. Train wouldn't move an inch

 

[colchesterken]

Last time I came past Ilford depot there were aprox 4 Mk3 s dumped at the back
A clear thinking fat controler would have refurbed them first so they could be put in service to allow 4 coaches to be refurbed with no impact on service
when the project is finished there would be spare stock to make up to 9 the remaining 8 car sets
also they should have 3 mk3 1st class coaches from the disbanded set used to make up the 9 car sets
I so wish I was the fat controler I would sort things out..May cost a bit but the Dutch railways can afford it

 

[306024]

It's not the fault of the 'dutch lot' the DFT will award the franchise to whoever offers to pay them the most money, the GA franchise pays out millions to the DFT every year, and the DFT will want to maximise that. Most of the MP's are in safe seats - so don't expect them to care.

Well the 'Dutch lot' did put the bid together, and the DfT bought it, so equal responsibility there. As for the middle management, well they can only work with what they are given. Meanwhile making the remaining load 9s into load 10s (including DVT) is OK until you try to park them at Norwich and find some of the sidings aren't long enough

 

[dk1]

Well the 'Dutch lot' did put the bid together, and the DfT bought it, so equal responsibility there. As for the middle management, well they can only work with what they are given. Meanwhile making the remaining load 8s into load 9s is OK until you try to park them at Norwich and find some of the sidings aren't long enough

Exactly what I was going to say. Especially the bit about yard storage.

12.30up failed today causing chaos to late afternoon departures from London & those trying to get to NCFCs evening game at Carrow Road. Add to the earlier Cambridge line fatality knocking out 156 after this mornings 170 shortage & temporary failure of the short set covering locals & it's been a pretty rubbish day all round.

 

[306024]

Sorry, got in first! You do wonder if train failures are are a result of the units being worked more intensively with less overall maintenance opportunity. However GA do run a large number of trains, mostly over the same routes, so any failure will be magnified.

And then there are things outside your control such as the meltdown of the Central Line this morning causing delays to the Shenfield metro while everyone tried to squeeze aboard.

 

[dk1]

Sorry, got in first! You do wonder if train failures are are a result of the units being worked more intensively with less overall maintenance opportunity. However GA do run a large number of trains, mostly over the same routes, so any failure will be magnified.

And then there are things outside your control such as the meltdown of the Central Line this morning causing delays to the Shenfield metro while everyone tried to squeeze aboard.

It was astonishing how many punters where cramming into the Metros this morning & equally astonishing how many where still left on the platforms all the way along unable to board due to the sheer volume. On the other hand the main lines where doing fine til around 0900 & we arrived 3 early!

 

[Sleepy]

Well the 'Dutch lot' did put the bid together, and the DfT bought it, so equal responsibility there. As for the middle management, well they can only work with what they are given. Meanwhile making the remaining load 9s into load 10s (including DVT) is OK until you try to park them at Norwich and find some of the sidings aren't long enough

Thought the sidings were made longer at Clown Point to accommodate load 10, and Royal Dock wired up also ?? NXEA also stated all sets would be Load 10 when they disbanded a set at last major timetable change - Dft project lots of seats ! great if you fancy trip from Stowmarket to LST in knackered 321 !!!

 

[dk1]

Thought the findings were made longer at Clown Point to accommodate load 10, and Royal Dock wired up also ?? NXEA also stated all sets would be Load 10 when they disbanded a set at last major timetable change - Dft project lots of seats ! great if you fancy trip from Stowmarket to LST in knackered 321 !!!

Some roads where extended at Crown Point but not all. Space is limited. Royal Dock & adjacent siding where also wired but you can only get one Intercity set in at a time.

 

[Pugwash]

Well the 'Dutch lot' did put the bid together, and the DfT bought it, so equal responsibility there. As for the middle management, well they can only work with what they are given. Meanwhile making the remaining load 9s into load 10s (including DVT) is OK until you try to park them at Norwich and find some of the sidings aren't long enough

The dutch lot's only responsibility is to make a decent return for their shareholders, it is the DFT's responsibility to ensure a decent service can be provided. After the National Express disaster where they pocketed the money they should have spent on train repair this is far less than passengers deserve.

Realistically the 90's and Mk3's should be in line for replacement as they appear not to be a long term solution. Hand them back to the Rosco and add to the Hitachi order.

 

[Dave1987]

The dutch lot's only responsibility is to make a decent return for their shareholders, it is the DFT's responsibility to ensure a decent service can be provided. After the National Express disaster where they pocketed the money they should have spent on train repair this is far less than passengers deserve.

Realistically the 90's and Mk3's should be in line for replacement as they appear not to be a long term solution. Hand them back to the Rosco and add to the Hitachi order.

Blimey why not just scrap every train in the country and add it to Hiatchi order :roll:

 

[TheEdge]

Realistically the 90's and Mk3's should be in line for replacement as they appear not to be a long term solution. Hand them back to the Rosco and add to the Hitachi order.

What actual facts (key word) make them not viable?

 

[jon0844]

Blimey why not just scrap every train in the country and add it to Hiatchi order :roll:

Because Bombardier would start whingeing again.

Oh, wait, that's not an argument against the idea!

 

[Pugwash]

What actual facts (key word) make them not viable?

Where do you want to start, reliability, lack of seats compared to a DMU, do not meet disabled toilets, full of rust etc etc.

 

[TheEdge]

Where do you want to start, reliability, lack of seats compared to a DMU, do not meet disabled toilets, full of rust etc etc.

Reliability: The 90s won the Silver Spanner in 2012 for their uptime. This year I believe they scored fairly well again.

A hauled set has just as many disabled toilets as a EMU, plus the 18 others.

I can't say they are that much more or less rusty that most other stock of similar age.

 

[306024]

The dutch lot's only responsibility is to make a decent return for their shareholders, it is the DFT's responsibility to ensure a decent service can be provided........

Really? I think you will find the terms of their Franchise Agreement does mention something about actually running the service.

 

[joeykins82]

Well, one assumes that there are penalties in their franchise agreement that would mean that failure to run a decent service directly impacts on the decent return for their shareholders.

 

[Pugwash]

Really? I think you will find the terms of their Franchise Agreement does mention something about actually running the service.

As long as they run a decent enough service to maintain their profit and that the DFT don't blacklist them - why would they spend shareholders money for the sake of passengers.

If I was a shareholder and found out the managers had approved large sums for no return - I would not be too impressed.