Forth road bridge closed completely, effect on rail network?

[atillathehunn]

That's an interesting statement. Who do these hauliers claim should recompense them?

I would imagine the insurance company of the owners or maintenance company responsible for the bridge, or for now, possibly the government. This is entirely reasonable. They have legitimate expectations.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I would imagine the insurance company of the owners or maintenance company responsible for the bridge, or for now, possibly the government. This is entirely reasonable. They have legitimate expectations.

The Forth Road Bridge is owned the Scottish Ministers, the legal name for the Scottish Government.

 

[najaB]

That's an interesting statement. Who do these hauliers claim should recompense them?

'Claim' and 'get' are two different words. That is all.

 

[overthewater]

The Forth Road Bridge is owned the Scottish Ministers, the legal name for the Scottish Government.

Its always been the case, it just before 2014 it had it own department FETA.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Announced by BBC that Road Hauliers to claim £600,000 per day compensation due to extended diversionary routes and delays.

Sounds odd. I didn't think there was a legal requirement to provide particular road routes. Is this the start of delay repay for road users?

 

[ld0595]

One strange thing I've found on RTT is this: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M54699/2015/12/10/advanced what seems to be a HST

However the next train leaving platform 4 is http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G97137/2015/12/10/advanced which is a unit. I'm guessing it's a mistake and will run as a 158/170? I've checked a few other days and the same things come up - HST to Dundee and DMU coming back.

 

[berneyarms]

One strange thing I've found on RTT is this: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M54699/2015/12/10/advanced what seems to be a HST

However the next train leaving platform 4 is http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G97137/2015/12/10/advanced which is a unit. I'm guessing it's a mistake and will run as a 158/170? I've checked a few other days and the same things come up - HST to Dundee and DMU coming back.

It's just the timing path used - it does not always correlate to what actually operates the service.

 

[edwin_m]

Sounds odd. I didn't think there was a legal requirement to provide particular road routes. Is this the start of delay repay for road users?

Perhaps the Scottish Government should put in a counter-claim to the road hauliers for running so many lorries that they broke the bridge?

 

[krus_aragon]

'Claim' and 'get' are two different words. That is all.

That's a point I had in mind. Claim a £600k shortfall, sure. But to claim £600k compensation, they must have an idea on who they're asking for it (before considering the question of whether they'll get it).

 

[atillathehunn]

That's a point I had in mind. Claim a £600k shortfall, sure. But to claim £600k compensation, they must have an idea on who they're asking for it (before considering the question of whether they'll get it).

Their own insurance, and a precedent setting case for such considerable costs from the detours against various parties. If there is evidence of negligence, then it will be very simple.

 

[ld0595]

It's just the timing path used - it does not always correlate to what actually operates the service.

Ah okay. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[route:oxford]

Sounds odd. I didn't think there was a legal requirement to provide particular road routes. Is this the start of delay repay for road users?

Requirements don't matter. Only how much a cornered organisation is willing to pay.

It's a failure of the Scottish state as well as a failed internationally recognised symbol of the Scottish nation and the Road Hauliers have the upper-hand.

There are already emergency road management plans in place at the Keir Roundabout to keep the traffic flowing.

A series of short-sharp road-hauliers strikes blocking The Higgins Neuk Roundabout and Keir Roundabout on the run-up to Chrismas would result in widespread panic north of the Central Belt.

How long do you think it would take before the payments started to flow?

 

[overthewater]

A series of short-sharp road-hauliers strikes blocking The Higgins Neuk Roundabout and Keir Roundabout on the run-up to Chrismas would result in widespread panic north of the Central Belt.

How long do you think it would take before the payments started to flow?

How long do you think it would take for the police to clamp down on it? Second... the area is flooded with police offices.

 

[me123]

A series of short-sharp road-hauliers strikes blocking The Higgins Neuk Roundabout and Keir Roundabout on the run-up to Chrismas would result in widespread panic north of the Central Belt.

What on earth would that achieve? It would be the stupidest thing they could possibly do. Because it would make the diversion take even longer and waste even more fuel.

 

[Phil.]

Since 2007 the bridge has been the responsibility of the Scottish government. In 2009 they were told that £10,000,000 needed to be spent on the bridge but they didn't. They did however abolish the tolls - which cancelled out the revenue that could have been spent on the bridge.
Now, wee Burney is in Paris along with all the other "let's go and have a beano at our tax payer's expense others to achieve precisely nothing" types to waffle about carbon emissions whilst her government have forced road vehicle users to go on a forty five mile mile detour. Multiply that by a few thousand vehicles per hour and that's an awful lot of carbon. It's also going to be a massive foul-up of the roads and revenue.
I doubt very much whether she and her government will admit to screwing up big time, expect a ,"the Conservative government cuts have done this" announcement any day now. What they won't mention is the (reputed) £40,000,000 loss they've taken since - against all warnings by financial experts - they used public money (who's else?) to buy Prestwick airport which continues to run at a loss, especially now that Easyjet have moved out to Glasgow. It's an obvious question but why would anyone spend money on buying a loss making company that no-one uses?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/..._40m__cover_up__over_Prestwick_running_costs/

 

[Tim R-T-C]

TBH I doubt the hauliers would get any sympathy since it is affecting so many other people too. Maybe if the bridge was closed to lorries only...

 

[Class 170101]

One strange thing I've found on RTT is this: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M54699/2015/12/10/advanced what seems to be a HST

However the next train leaving platform 4 is http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G97137/2015/12/10/advanced which is a unit. I'm guessing it's a mistake and will run as a 158/170? I've checked a few other days and the same things come up - HST to Dundee and DMU coming back.

I think this train might not run
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G81596/2015/12/09/advanced
Otherwise there is a platgform clash.

 

[me123]

Now, wee Burney is in Paris along with all the other "let's go and have a beano at our tax payer's expense others to achieve precisely nothing" types to waffle about carbon emissions whilst her government have forced road vehicle users to go on a forty five mile mile detour. Multiply that by a few thousand vehicles per hour and that's an awful lot of carbon. It's also going to be a massive foul-up of the roads and revenue.

Regardless of whether this was preventable, it's happened. Her government aren't forcing people to go on a 45 mile detour. The engineers (who have a far greater understanding of the bridge than any of us) have made the decision that it is not safe to have traffic on the bridge. That is the right decision. Yes, it's a lot of carbon emissions. But if the experts say that the bridge is not safe for traffic, then the bridge should be closed to all traffic.

The only thing forcing a 45 mile detour is the geography.

I doubt very much whether she and her government will admit to screwing up big time, expect a ,"the Conservative government cuts have done this" announcement any day now. What they won't mention is the (reputed) £40,000,000 loss they've taken since - against all warnings by financial experts - they used public money (who's else?) to buy Prestwick airport which continues to run at a loss, especially now that Easyjet have moved out to Glasgow. It's an obvious question but why would anyone spend money on buying a loss making company that no-one uses?

easyJet have never served PIK. Ryanair have, however, moved some flights from PIK to GLA for various reasons. Not least because Wizzair had already moved their Polish operations to GLA, so FR had to do the same to continue competing. FR continue to have a small base at PIK (and probably will have for the foreseeable future, given that they have a major maintenance base at the airport). OT, but I think the future for PIK lies in non-passenger operations.

 

[overthewater]

Now, wee Burney is in Paris along with all the other "let's go and have a beano at our tax payer's expense others to achieve precisely nothing" types to waffle about carbon emissions whilst her government have forced road vehicle users to go on a forty five mile mile detour. Multiply that by a few thousand vehicles per hour and that's an awful lot of carbon. It's also going to be a massive foul-up of the roads and revenue.

No chance, since that would open a can of worms and would prove to everyone there did make cut backs on maintenance. She and her minsters will stick to a very tight worded scripted.

 

[me123]

I'm going to edit that, because that's not my quote! That came from the keyboard of Phil, and I'm going to give him all the credit!

(Sorry, I must have messed up when cutting the quotes!).

 

[DT611]

They have legitimate expectations.

So do many others. They won't be compensated though, as its just not feasible

 

[me123]

Is there any precedent for compensation in these circumstances? Scotland (in the Highlands in particular) is no stranger to road closures and ferry cancellations. Mostly weather related, but arguably some of them could be prevented or the disruption minimised by maintenance or preventative measures (eg with landslides). These can lead to even more massive diversions. The A85 closures to Oban lead to diversions in excess of 100 miles.

Has anyone ever claimed compensation in these circumstances?

 

[atillathehunn]

Is there any precedent for compensation in these circumstances? Scotland (in the Highlands in particular) is no stranger to road closures and ferry cancellations. Mostly weather related, but arguably some of them could be prevented or the disruption minimised by maintenance or preventative measures (eg with landslides). These can lead to even more massive diversions. The A85 closures to Oban lead to diversions in excess of 100 miles.

Has anyone ever claimed compensation in these circumstances?

Interruption of business clause in the business insurance contract would be used I would imagine.

 

[Elwyn]

Is there any precedent for compensation in these circumstances? Scotland (in the Highlands in particular) is no stranger to road closures and ferry cancellations. Mostly weather related, but arguably some of them could be prevented or the disruption minimised by maintenance or preventative measures (eg with landslides). These can lead to even more massive diversions. The A85 closures to Oban lead to diversions in excess of 100 miles.

Has anyone ever claimed compensation in these circumstances?

I assume you mean from the bridge owners ie the Government? My guess is that for there to be a claim you would need to have some sort of contract with them that had been breached by it’s unexpected closure. I don’t think any such contract exists, certainly not explicitly, and I doubt implicitly. I haven’t seen any suggestions in the press that the closure might trigger a compensation claim. I’d say it’s one of those things that people just have to live with.

 

[hibtastic]

Have the extra loco hauled services started today? I am getting the train from Inverkeithing in the next few hours and wondered if I should hang around for one.

 

[hibtastic]

I'll answer my own question - yes they are! This is how busy the 1729 from Inverkeithing to Haymarket is.

 

[route:oxford]

I'll answer my own question - yes they are! This is how busy the 1729 from Inverkeithing to Haymarket is.

Just for balance...

How busy is the 17:23 from Haymarket Inverkething (and Cardenden)?

 

[hibtastic]

Just for balance...

How busy is the 17:23 from Haymarket Inverkething (and Cardenden)?

The normal loco hauled trains were busy!

The extra loco hauled service is formed of 6 Mk2s in between 2 class 67s.

 

[455driver]

I'll answer my own question - yes they are! This is how busy the 1729 from Inverkeithing to Haymarket is.

Yeah chose a train going the 'wrong' way to prove your point! :roll:

 

[Bungle965]

Yeah chose a train going the 'wrong' way to prove your point! :roll:

Exactly my thoughts.
Sam