Formula 1

[Peter Mugridge]

OK thank; was it something else they say won't be announced until after the break, or was it going to be that originally but then they announced it straight away afterwards anyway?

I did see during the race that they said they would talk to the drivers afterwards.

Not sure I believe the verdict, though - even during the race the commentator ( Brundle? Croft? ) said it was a clear urgent avoiding action by Hamilton that he went so far off the track. My son and I both thought as soon as we saw it happen that it was a deliberate attempt!!

 

[JamesT]

OK thank; was it something else they say won't be announced until after the break, or was it going to be that originally but then they announced it straight away afterwards anyway?

I did see during the race that they said they would talk to the drivers afterwards.

Not sure I believe the verdict, though - even during the race the commentator ( Brundle? Croft? ) said it was a clear urgent avoiding action by Hamilton that he went so far off the track. My son and I both thought as soon as we saw it happen that it was a deliberate attempt!!

I suspect any talk of the next race may have been in terms of potential penalties. Sometimes they’ll give a time penalty to the race just finished, such as Leclerc’s 5 seconds for erratic driving. Sometimes it will be a grid drop of a certain number of places for the following race.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That makes sense; I just wish the subtitles would pick up everything that was being said.

 

[dcbwhaley]

Norris is not going to win the championship imo - Sadly, I don't think he has what it takes. He is making to many errors and is failing to capitalise on opportunities. Pole on Sunday in a wet race not converted into victory. He just isn't building the kind of momentum you need to carry you to the title

But he drove a perfect finale yesterday to clinch the win

 

[DarloRich]

But he drove a perfect finale yesterday to clinch the win

I haven't seen it yet - I was at the if you dont want to know the result look away now stage!

 

[sannox]

It's interesting. I get the impression Piastri has been more consistent with more wins, Norris had the crash in Canada and scored no points, yet Norris is only 9 points behind.

 

[75A]

Cadillac have announced their drivers for their F1 debut next year.
Surprisingly they've gone for 2 'old timers' neither of whom have been in F1 this year.
Mexican Sergio Perez 35, has won 6 Grand Prix's and Finland's Valeri Bottas (36 on Thursday) has won 10.
Strikes me as odd that an American team hasn't picked anyone more local, there is a lot of young home grown talent, including in no particular order: Colton Herta, David Malukas and Kyle Kirkwood.

 

[Bungle73]

Cadillac have announced their drivers for their F1 debut next year.
Surprisingly they've gone for 2 'old timers' neither of whom have been in F1 this year.
Mexican Sergio Perez 35, has won 6 Grand Prix's and Finland's Valeri Bottas (36 on Thursday) has won 10.
Strikes me as odd that an American team hasn't picked anyone more local, there is a lot of young home grown talent, including in no particular order: Colton Herta, David Malukas and Kyle Kirkwood.

None of whom have any F1 experience.

 

[75A]

and..........
F1 top speeds are slow compared to Indy Car, doesn't have as many cars in a race, the races are shorter in time and distance and don't have the variety in types of circuit.
There's no tyre skill in F1 because they're put on 'hot' and no fuel strategies because there are no fuel stops, boring, boring, boring.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Cadillac have announced their drivers for their F1 debut next year.
Surprisingly they've gone for 2 'old timers' neither of whom have been in F1 this year.
Mexican Sergio Perez 35, has won 6 Grand Prix's and Finland's Valeri Bottas (36 on Thursday) has won 10.
Strikes me as odd that an American team hasn't picked anyone more local, there is a lot of young home grown talent, including in no particular order: Colton Herta, David Malukas and Kyle Kirkwood.

It seems very likely that Colton Herta was a "first choice" for one of the Cadillac seats, but he hasn't achieved the required points for a F1 Super License. I doubt the other two names have either.

I think going with two drivers with a significant amount of experience is a great move for year 1, even if they are past their fastest. They won't be looking to win championships or even races, only to get lots of useful feedback in order to get the car where it needs to be. I'm sure Valteri and Checo will give them that.

 

[Tetragon213]

It seems very likely that Colton Herta was a "first choice" for one of the Cadillac seats, but he hasn't achieved the required points for a F1 Super License. I doubt the other two names have either.

I think going with two drivers with a significant amount of experience is a great move for year 1, even if they are past their fastest. They won't be looking to win championships or even races, only to get lots of useful feedback in order to get the car where it needs to be. I'm sure Valteri and Checo will give them that.

A pair of experienced, if not necessarily the fastest, drivers will be more valuable due to that feedback which they can provide.

That is, of course, only if the team is willing to take on that feedback.

 

[SynthD]

There's no tyre skill in F1 because they're put on 'hot'

That’s changing. They’ve slowed down the timetable of ditching tyre blankets so I can’t remember when they’ll go entirely without.

 

[DarloRich]

and..........
F1 top speeds are slow compared to Indy Car, doesn't have as many cars in a race, the races are shorter in time and distance and don't have the variety in types of circuit.
There's no tyre skill in F1 because they're put on 'hot' and no fuel strategies because there are no fuel stops, boring, boring, boring.

Indy car drivers only turn left..........

(Apparently)

 

[Darandio]

F1 top speeds are slow compared to Indy Car

And where do IndyCar achieve these high speeds? Ovals. Set up an F1 car for an oval and you'll get the same or faster.

Chuck them both on Circuit of the Americas, a circuit that they've both used in the past and the F1 car is 14 seconds quicker per lap. Yep, slow.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Mexican Sergio Perez 35, has won 6 Grand Prix's and Finland's Valeri Bottas (36 on Thursday) has won 10.

Sensible choice. Perez will bring in huge amounts of sponsorship cash, and Bottas is a reliable driver who won't cause any drama for the team. In the first season, they'll need their experience to give feedback, and there's really no-one better than those two available.

I expect that they'll have American drivers waiting to come up, but that's an absolutely solid choice for a first year driver lineup.

 

[Tetragon213]

Indy car drivers only turn left..........

(Apparently)

I mean, their most famous race is technically "only" 4 left turns. It's just that you're taking it at Average Speeds not far off the maximum speed at the end of the Spa Kemmel Straight!

 

[66701GBRF]

and..........
F1 top speeds are slow compared to Indy Car, doesn't have as many cars in a race, the races are shorter in time and distance and don't have the variety in types of circuit.
There's no tyre skill in F1 because they're put on 'hot' and no fuel strategies because there are no fuel stops, boring, boring, boring.

No tyre skill? Ok...

 

[Mogster]

Indycar is a very competetive pro level series. It’s not a feeder series like FIA F2 so young drivers are up against veterans with 20 years experience. It’s often the destination series for US and S American drivers although you do see drivers who have fallen off the F1 ladder appearing, Ilott and Armstrong, Hauger next year. There’s a lot of variety in the tracks, street circuits, traditional road courses, short ovals, huge superspeedways. As with FIA-F2 I’d encourage anyone that enjoys F1 to give it a watch.

FIA superlicence points are allocated heavily towards FIA series. It’s hard for young drivers coming through the Indycar ladder to gain 40 superlicence points. Herta, Kirkwood, Malukas, O’Ward all are young US/Mexican drivers that would be interesting to see in F1 but none have 40 SL points (I think O’Ward did apply under 4 season Covid rules but I’m it sure of the FIA accepted his submission) .

Herta in particular has struggled to accumulate SL points even though he has a lot of Indycar race wins and pole positions. Herta also has the millstone of Andretti’s perennially underperforming Indycar team. Andretti are very like Ferrari in F1 with bizarre team and technical decisions. Herta is very like Indycar’s Leclerc with incredible 1 lap pace but pole positions rarely converted into race wins for a variety of reasons.You can’t question his 1 lap pace but his consistency in the past has been up for discussion. He did well against Norris in UK F4, he was Norris’s teammate at Carlin, Herta ran Norris close even though Norris had experience of UK tracks and conditions.

In the last few days rumours have surfaced that Herta may join FIA-F2 next year. That would make sense, he could gain experience of Pirelli tyres, FIA grade 1 circuits, do FP1 sessions with Andretti and potentially gain SL points to join Andretti in F1 for 27 or 28.

 

[JD2168]

After the summer break F1 returns this weekend with the Dutch Grand Prix at Zandvoort

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2025 ==

Oscar Piastri has won the Dutch Grand Prix from Max Verstappen & Isack Hadjar in third.

At the start the McLaren’s got away but Verstappen on soft tyres got past Lando Norris, although Norris repast a number of laps later.

A race with plenty of incidents & three safety cars saw Lewis Hamilton retire when drizzle occurred, he put his rear tyre on the painted area at the top of the Hugenholtzbocht banking & hit the barriers.

Charles Leclerc & George Russell had an entertaining scrap after a VSC call for debris which happened when Carlos Sainz & Liam Lawson collided on the exit of turn one. Leclerc had a run on Russell into the chicane & partly using the gravel area passed Russell. The battle continued down the pit straight & into turn one but Leclerc kept the position.

Later on Antonelli after a poor qualifying had managed to get into the top 10 pitted for soft tyres. A lap later Leclerc came in for sifts & emerged just ahead of Antonelli. As the pair headed towards the hairpin Antonelli went for the inside but went up the banking & hit Leclerc ending Charles race & earning Kimi a 10 second penalty which he would then add another 5 seconds to by pit lane speeding.

Towards the end the McLaren’s we’re running at the front but in a potentially pivotal moment in the Championship Lando Norris who was in second retired with engine failure/Oil leak. After this caused another safety car Piastri led until the end ahead of Verstappen & Hadjar who gained his first podium after a very impressive weekend where he qualified fourth & kept the Mercedes & Ferrari cars behind him for the entire race.

In a decision made after the race the stewards gave Lewis Hamilton a 5 place grid penalty after speeding through a double yellow flag area on the laps before the grid. The field had been instructed by the race director that the slower area towards the grid would begin at the start of the final corner where the banking is but on 2 occasions Lewis was too fast in this area.

The next race is next weekend with the Italian Grand Prix at Monza.

 

[75A]

See that Cadillac (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/cwy94j5gjv9o) have signed Colton Herta to be their Test Driver for next season, meaning that he'll have the opportunity to race in F2 and get the Super Licence Points that the arrogant administrators in F1 think he needs.

 

[gswindale]

See that Cadillac (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/cwy94j5gjv9o) have signed Colton Herta to be their Test Driver for next season, meaning that he'll have the opportunity to race in F2 and get the Super Licence Points that the arrogant administrators in F1 think he needs.

He can get the required number of super licence points remaining in Indycar though (but it would be harder).

I can't remember exactly when the points came in, but there have been, in the past, some drivers in F1 who really shouldn't have been there and probably got there due to money rather than skill.

The main issue with getting the points is that the FIA favour the affiliated series over those run outside their jurisdiction. I'm not entirely sure that constitutes being arrogant, it seems similar to those countries which insist on you obtaining an International Driver Permit or passing their own driving test first.

 

[Megafuss]

See that Cadillac (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/cwy94j5gjv9o) have signed Colton Herta to be their Test Driver for next season, meaning that he'll have the opportunity to race in F2 and get the Super Licence Points that the arrogant administrators in F1 think he needs.

I watch a lot of Indycar. He's not even the best American driver at Andretti!

 

[75A]

Well done to Max for winning todays Italian Grand Prix @ Monza.
He started from Pole, had a tussle with Norris going into the first corner, was adjudged to have been naughty and told by his team to give the lead back to the McLaren man, which he did before overtaking him and driving off into the distance.
I'm not a fan of his by any means, but that was an impressive drive.

 

[Mogster]

I watch a lot of Indycar. He's not even the best American driver at Andretti!

Over the 2025 Indycar season Herta outqualified Kirkwood 12/5, finishing position ratio was similar.

Yes Kirkwood is good at finishing races and did win 3 in the first 1/2 of the season, his 2025 tailed off after that. Consistency does count for a lot in Indycar, points tend to reward finishing and are awarded for the whole field. Herta had the worse of Andretti’s usual, shoddy pit stops and strategy errors, he lost at least 3 solid podium and possible wins to team errors in the first 1/2 of the season. Kirkwood has no experience of European racing, Herta did 2015/16 in Europe in F4 and F3 junior racing.

Herta does have unusual 1 lap pace (he had poles against Norris in British F4 when they were teammates, and every series he’s competed in for a full season) Herta has lacked consistency in the past, that seems to have improved the last couple of years. Yes, you always still feel he has a mistake in him but then he also has the hero lap in qualifying when he can turn it on.

How this will translate to F2 and possibly F1 is anyone’s guess. There are lots of variables in F2, team performance, hardware varies more than it should. Apparently F2 cars (spec series) don’t have much adjustment compared to F1, or even Indycar (close to spec series) so if you are struggling to adapt to the way the car needs to be driven then there’s little the team can do to help.

Whatever, it’ll be interesting to see how Herta gets on. Transferring from US to European racing rarely happens. Adapting will be difficult, the variables in F2 could catch him out. You have to respect him for trying this though.

 

[Megafuss]

Over the 2025 Indycar season Herta outqualified Kirkwood 12/5, finishing position ratio was similar.

Yes Kirkwood is good at finishing races and did win 3 in the first 1/2 of the season, his 2025 tailed off after that. Consistency does count for a lot in Indycar, points tend to reward finishing and are awarded for the whole field. Herta had the worse of Andretti’s usual, shoddy pit stops and strategy errors, he lost at least 3 solid podium and possible wins to team errors in the first 1/2 of the season. Kirkwood has no experience of European racing, Herta did 2015/16 in Europe in F4 and F3 junior racing.

Herta does have unusual 1 lap pace (he had poles against Norris in British F4 when they were teammates, and every series he’s competed in for a full season) Herta has lacked consistency in the past, that seems to have improved the last couple of years. Yes, you always still feel he has a mistake in him but then he also has the hero lap in qualifying when he can turn it on.

How this will translate to F2 and possibly F1 is anyone’s guess. There are lots of variables in F2, team performance, hardware varies more than it should. Apparently F2 cars (spec series) don’t have much adjustment compared to F1, or even Indycar (close to spec series) so if you are struggling to adapt to the way the car needs to be driven then there’s little the team can do to help.

Whatever, it’ll be interesting to see how Herta gets on. Transferring from US to European racing rarely happens. Adapting will be difficult, the variables in F2 could catch him out. You have to respect him for trying this though.

Its good for Herta, and that is ultimately what matters to him. But all I see is a lot of potential downside. For him, Indycar, Motorsport in America.

He is an excellent driver, but I can't help feel it's the right driver at the wrong time.

Fair play for backing himself. I just don't see it.

 

[JD2168]

Well done to Max for winning todays Italian Grand Prix @ Monza.
He started from Pole, had a tussle with Norris going into the first corner, was adjudged to have been naughty and told by his team to give the lead back to the McLaren man, which he did before overtaking him and driving off into the distance.
I'm not a fan of his by any means, but that was an impressive drive.

The race set a few records across the weekend:
Fastest ever lap in qualifying
Fastest race ever
Fastest lap

The race & lap record go back to 2003 & 2004 which were held by Michael Schumacher & Rubes Barrichello

 

[Mogster]

Its good for Herta, and that is ultimately what matters to him. But all I see is a lot of potential downside. For him, Indycar, Motorsport in America.

He is an excellent driver, but I can't help feel it's the right driver at the wrong time.

Fair play for backing himself. I just don't see it.

I think he’s right that this is his last chance at F1. If it doesn’t work out he’ll take some flak but will still be able to return to Indycar/IMSA or go to WEC possibly if he wants to. He was Norris’s teammate in 2015 British F4, I’m sure seeing Norris in contention for the WDC has him thinking that he could be there also. OK Norris did beat him over the season but he’d be right to say he put up a decent show in the second half of that year.

For the last 2 seasons Toyota have fielded 26 year old Japanese driver Ritomo Miyata in F2. He’s a previous Superformula and S500 Champion with Toyota and has also completed some testing for Haas as Toyota have a technical partnership with the F1 team. The F2 seasons really haven’t worked out, Miyata is clearly no slouch by his performances in Japan, but for whatever reason he hasn’t been able to translate that domestic success to success in F2. Currently his best F2 result is a single podium.

I‘d be delighted to see Herta succeed in F2 but I think Miyata’s difficulties underline what a risk Herta is taking and that success isn’t a given or even maybe likely. If Herta does succeed and continues his success into F1 it’ll be one of greatest feats in modern motorsports, he’ll become a genuine icon, legendary, so maybe that’s worth a punt…

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Someone who works with my daughter was in the stands at Monza last week, directly adjacent to where Lando Norris briefly went off the track and some of the gravel and marbles got thrown right across into the crowd.

She brought these bits back for my daughter, who is into F1; thought it might be of interest to some of you to see them...

 

[JD2168]

At the weekend Max Verstappen participated & gained his licence to be able to race a GT3 car at the Nurburgring Nordschleife by driving a detuned Porsche Cayman GT4

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Sep 2025 ==

After a chaotic qualifying session which saw 6 red flags & took 2 hours for Max Verstappen to claim pole position, Max has won the Azerbaijan Grand Prix ahead of George Russell (who had been unwell for most of the weekend) & Carlos Sainz in third (after he started in second place)

The race was a disaster for Oscar Piastri who:
Jumped the start (Alonso got a penalty for this as well after reacting to Piastri)
Getting anti stall when put him last into turn one
Crashing into the barrier at turn five.
This after he had already crashed his car in qualifying which required a chassis change.

Lando Norris failed to make full advantage after starting seventh he finished in the same position again having a slow pit stop & getting caught in a DRS train with Lawson (who qualified third) & Tusunoda.

Ferrari after strong Friday pace only finished eighth (Lewis Hamilton) & ninth (Charles Leclerc) this after a poor qualifying which saw Hamilton twelfth & Leclerc crash into the barriers

Kimi Antonelli had a much better weekend qualifying fourth & finishing fourth with very few mistakes. George Russell was the big mover from fifth to second

Lawson eventually finished fifth with Isack Hadjar finishing tenth for the last point.

Overall the race was processional at times with DRS train’s quickly forming.

In the Championship Piastri now leads by 25 points from Norris with Verstappen 69 behind. The Contructors championship continues into Singapore as McLaren’s poor weekend meant they failed to clinch the title

The next race is the night race at Singapore in two weeks

 

[sannox]

DRS was probably a bit short this weekend at the start finish. Cars really struggled to get past even if they were faster as DRS just didn't get them alongside in time.