Formula 1

[cossie4i]

So the championship is awarded by race control making it up as they go along.

Exactly.
I honestly didn’t mind who won but that Hamiltons race, Max couldn’t touch him.

 

[DarloRich]

Well done both drivers anyway. Great season.

Agreed - very good.

 

[SuspectUsual]

FIAsco. Tomorrow’s headlines today

 

[Domh245]

If the backmarkers weren't allowed to pass then Red Bull would have been done over. They allowed them to pass so Mercedes feel that way. Considering the vast majority of other safety car periods they do allow the backmarkers through i'm fine with it. They've all been asking for consistency.

From the sporting regulations:

48.12
If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.

This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.

Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.

If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system.

At no point does that give the race director the discretion to let some cars though and not others - It's all or nothing

Absolutely farcical.

edit: also realised, it specifically requires a least one lap between the "lapped cars may overtake" and SC going in

 

[DarloRich]

I think the ending was fair but messy. Personally I would have gone for an instant red flag and a 5/ 6 lap shoot out.

 

[Domh245]

I think the ending was fair but messy. Personally I would have gone for an instant red flag and a 5/ 6 lap shoot out.

Would have been a far far fairer decision

Masi has a huge case to answer to Mercedes for making the rules up as he goes

 

[D365]

At no point does that give the race director the discretion to let some cars though and not others - It's all or nothing

Absolutely farcical.

This is exactly my problem. I’m glad Honda got a championship in the 21st Century, and congratulations to both teams. But the fallout from Masi’s decision making is going to be huge.

 

[Non Multi]

As someone who watches US motorsport, this is standard protocol over there (even if it wasn't implemented properly). But if it's the first time you've seen a last lap shootout, it comes across as very contrived way to end a motor race. "The show" matters more in the US, and that approach is slowly making its way over internationally.

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder if Mercedes will revoke the engine supply deal for Williams

Masi has a huge case to answer to Mercedes for making the rules up as he goes

He has a lot of explaining to do full stop! Chaos last week, chaos this week and inconsistent decision making through out the season.

But if it's the first time you've seen a last lap shootout, it comes across as very contrived way to end a motor race. "The show" matters more in the US, and that approach is slowly making it's way over internationally.

No issue with the decisions made, more the manner and, more accurately, the inconsistent manner in which they were made. In a previous race ( Sochi?) a similar incident was an immediate red flag. Today: chaos.

 

[SynthD]

I'm seeing some people suggest a red flag would have provided a better ending. If it was called instantly, before anyone pitted, I can see that being best. Only in hindsight.

 

[Bald Rick]

He has a lot of explaining to do full stop! Chaos last week, chaos this week and inconsistent decision making through out the season.

I don’t think Charlie would have done it this way.

Complete mess.

 

[DarloRich]

Apparently mercedes have protested the result. Sigh.

 

[malc-c]

IMO - Hamilton played the advantage at the start as he gained a huge distance and didn't give any place back... if Mercedes want to play fair then as Hamilton was off track and gained an advantage yet didn't yield the place then hit him with points deduction same way as Verstappen was when he did the same a few races back. Race control gave Mercedes the advantage at the start of the race, so they returned the advantage at the end. It was messy, with a lot of confusion, and maybe if they had stopped the race the moment of the crash and restarted with a few laps remaining we may have seen the same result, but a restart would possibly lead to less controversy.

With Mercedes having now lodged an official appeal, I guess we just wait to see what the outcome is.

 

[DarloRich]

The protest is that verstappen passed hamilton before the restart line. It looked close on the pictures but really........

 

[Domh245]

Even if Verstappen may have been ahead, Hamilton would have been breaking the rules around erratic driving on SC restart, so no legs on that really

edit: + the inevitable protest about the SC restart now as well

 

[DarloRich]

Even if Verstappen may have been ahead, Hamilton would have been breaking the rules around erratic driving on SC restart, so no legs on that really

edit: + the inevitable protest about the SC restart now as well

It is silly. Just give it up

 

[Domh245]

It is silly. Just give it up

It's petty but it's necessary. FIA have royally f*cked it, Mercedes absolutely have a case for them to answer. It'll be a terrible shame if the SC procedure one is upheld and for Verstappen to lose the championship this way (having effectively lost it earlier in the day before being gifted it suddenly), but there's no way or reason that Mercedes take it lying down.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Well done to Max for winning the championship, sucks for Lewis but he'll be back next year. However, there is the massive elephant in the room that is Michael Massi and his stewarding capabilities. That we won't let lapped cars passed, then at the 11th hour saying yes, but only letting 5 through, was wrong. Then he had the gall to call it racing. It may be racing, but it also breaks your own rules. Someone fire this clown, NOW.

He was no where near until the stewards completely messed things up.

^^^this^^^ Specifically it was Masi effing up.

So the championship is awarded by race control making it up as they go along.

Sadly, yes. I would've preferred a fair fight to the end but Masi (being the clown that he is) said no.

It was box office mind.

Correctomundo.

From the sporting regulations:


At no point does that give the race director the discretion to let some cars though and not others - It's all or nothing

Absolutely farcical.

edit: also realised, it specifically requires a least one lap between the "lapped cars may overtake" and SC going in

Supercars must've laughed all the way home from Masi's leaving party.

I think the ending was fair but messy. Personally I would have gone for an instant red flag and a 5/ 6 lap shoot out.

The correct decision.

Masi has a huge case to answer to Mercedes for making the rules up as he goes

Yep. I hope that this doesn't affect the championship. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.

He has a lot of explaining to do full stop! Chaos last week, chaos this week and inconsistent decision making through out the season.

Refer to the part about Supercars and laughing.

I don’t think Charlie would have done it this way.

He's probably rolling in his grave at this farce.

The protest is that verstappen passed hamilton before the restart line. It looked close on the pictures but really........

Of all the things to protest, really?

It's petty but it's necessary. FIA have royally f*cked it, Mercedes absolutely have a case for them to answer. It'll be a terrible shame if the SC procedure one is upheld and for Verstappen to lose the championship this way (having effectively lost it earlier in the day before being gifted it suddenly), but there's no way or reason that Mercedes take it lying down.

Exactly this. Expect fireworks in the courts. Hopefully, Masi comes away not being Race Director.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder what Red Bull’s reaction would have been if it was the other way round!

 

[Domh245]

I wonder what Red Bull’s reaction would have been if it was the other wa6 round!

Exactly the same!

(but with Horner and Wheatley's incessant whining, which would make it that much more painful!)

 

[DelW]

The rules (which race control ignored) are that EITHER no lapped cars pass the safety car, in which case there'd have been five back markers between Max and Lewis; OR all lapped cars pass the safety car, in which case they'd still have been under the safety car at the end of the race.

F1 is being pushed down the American route of everything must be subordinated to "entertainment". Too many more days like today and F1 will have the same credibility as WWE wrestling - i.e. none. The grinding noise you can hear today isn't Christian Horner's teeth (as it usually is), it's Charlie Whiting spinning in his grave.

 

[KashmireHawker]

Mercedes have challenged the result, under Sporting Regulations 48.12 and 48.8.

From a strategic point; Red Bull NAILED IT and no one should dare complain at Max for getting the job done. Lewis will be livid for not being brought in and getting a soft set on too.

As from a Sporting Side - either use the rules fully, or don't use them at all and Race Director Michael Masi, DESERVES to be unemployed tommorow morning, for his massive lack of consistency throughout the whole season.

What a FARCE to end one of the greatest seasons ever.

 

[Domh245]

From a strategic point; Red Bull NAILED IT and no one should dare complain at Max for getting the job done. Lewis will be livid for not being brought in and getting a soft set on too.

Eh, Mercedes made the right strategic call (in something of a catch 22), up until the last lap and a half - they either pit Lewis, but Max stays out and (if the rules had been followed) wins, or he stays out. Had Race Direction been even vaguely competent they'd have either finished behind the safety car having allowed cars to unlap or would have been nip and tuck with Lewis trying to bolt whilst Max fights through those 5 cars, but gut feeling is he'd have probably held on.

Pitting was the only thing Red Bull could do - they lose nothing and at best give themselves a chance

 

[the sniper]

I think Mr Masi should be getting shuffled into an 'exciting new opportunity' as Race Director of the FIA International Hill Climb Cup instead...

But going forwards, the radio traffic/lobbying from the teams to the FIA during the race should be stopped, it's pathetic.

 

[JamesT]

I think Mr Masi should be getting shuffled into an 'exciting new opportunity' as Race Director of the FIA International Hill Climb Cup instead...

But going forwards, the radio traffic/lobbying from the teams to the FIA during the race should be stopped, it's pathetic.

I get the impression that this lobbying has always happened, it’s just new that we get to hear it.

 

[KashmireHawker]

I think Mr Masi should be getting shuffled into an 'exciting new opportunity' as Race Director of the FIA International Hill Climb Cup instead...

But going forwards, the radio traffic/lobbying from the teams to the FIA during the race should be stopped, it's pathetic.

He needs no opportuntiy - he needs FIRING and never to have a job for the rest of his days!

Charle Whiting's corpse will be turning in his grave...

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The own real leveller though is absolutely identical cars then see how good the drivers are.

 

[baz962]

The own real leveller though is absolutely identical cars then see how good the drivers are.

You would still have a situation where a quicker pit stop or better race strategy or a dnf , skews that . I don't think you can ever really even things up.

 

[Darandio]

(but with Horner and Wheatley's incessant whining, which would make it that much more painful!)

Toto is equally as bad!

One thing that needs to come out of this season is an end to the constant lobbying of the race director during the race. I've noticed lots of people complaining about how Horner was speaking to him during that final stage yet it was only a few laps earlier that Toto was heard begging Masi not to introduce a full safety car when Giovanazzi stopped out on track. Both as bad as each other.

 

[the sniper]

The own real leveller though is absolutely identical cars then see how good the drivers are.

While that may have merit as a concept, it isn't Formula 1.