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First Greater Glasgow

Jordan Adam

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Aberdeen
Am I seeing right that 38452 is on the 2 today?
If you believe Bus times, which can be a bit dodgy at best. It did a 46 to Easterhouse earlier. Then Faifley and back and now back on a 46.
Two different buses were tracking as 38452 briefly. 38452 was on the 46, while the bus tracking as 38452 on the 2 was actually 37750. This isn't an issue with Bustimes but rather down to First inputing the same ticket machine (38452) code in two different vehicles.
 
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PaulMc7

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I wouldn't be surprised if testing happened for the 2 and 3 to see how electric vehicles do on the route but I'd be shocked if it was so soon and not closer to when the new vehicles are due to arrive at Scotstoun.

It'll be interesting to see just how much they can stretch them with the 2 and 3 to be honest as the routes are fairly long and start very early in the day and end fairly late at night. The only routes that cover the City Centre I think they'll definitely be completely fine for are the X4 and 77 and possibly the 6A. The 2, 3 and 6 in particular are massive in length and hours that they cover.
 

Jordan Adam

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I don't get the obsession over route length, it's average speed which is the much bigger decider when it comes to how long an EV bus can last in service. A bus on a route thats 20 miles each way will last just as long as a bus on a route 10 miles each way if both routes are in an urban environment and have the same average speed.

If anything they'd be less suited to the X4 as that goes along the motorway so it covers more miles in less time as such vehicle range will go down faster.
 

JumpinTrainz

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I wouldn't be surprised if testing happened for the 2 and 3 to see how electric vehicles do on the route but I'd be shocked if it was so soon and not closer to when the new vehicles are due to arrive at Scotstoun.

It'll be interesting to see just how much they can stretch them with the 2 and 3 to be honest as the routes are fairly long and start very early in the day and end fairly late at night. The only routes that cover the City Centre I think they'll definitely be completely fine for are the X4 and 77 and possibly the 6A. The 2, 3 and 6 in particular are massive in length and hours that they cover.
The 2, 3 and 6 definitely pose a problem. The electric buses won’t have the range to run these services for long periods of time especially the E400EVs so I wouldn’t be surprised if they never saw service on these routes. It’ll mean switching out electrics for diesels or running half and half routes like they’ve did with the current 75 and 38 which imo is no way to run a bus a company. I’d say the 77 is perfectly suited to electric buses as is the 6A and X4.

My thinking is they’ll be holding out for technology to advance and for the range of buses to get better before the time comes that diesels are phased out - especially with First’s commitment to not order anymore diesels. The fact of the matter is that there are better range buses out there but First for some reason keep opting for BYD and ADL instead of going for the obvious choice of Yutongs like they’ve did in Aberdeen. It seems ludicrous they didn’t
 

PaulMc7

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A change has been registered for the 11 for December 18th. Are there any other changes to come?

PM0000001/646 Registered (Short notice)
FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD

Route: Gartnavel Hospital to Chalmers Street, Clydebank

Service number: 11

Service type: Normal Stopping

Effective date: 18 Dec 2022
 

Tom Gallacher

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19 Mar 2021
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I don't get the obsession over route length, it's average speed which is the much bigger decider when it comes to how long an EV bus can last in service. A bus on a route thats 20 miles each way will last just as long as a bus on a route 10 miles each way if both routes are in an urban environment and have the same average speed.

If anything they'd be less suited to the X4 as that goes along the motorway so it covers more miles in less time as such vehicle range will go down faster.
Do the electric buses draw down much power when they're sitting in traffic? Thinking here of lights and any other ancillary equipment.
 

computerSaysNo

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Do the electric buses draw down much power when they're sitting in traffic? Thinking here of lights and any other ancillary equipment.
I would imagine not. If they've been sensible they'll have used LED lights which draw an almost negligible amount. By far the most amount of power is going to be spent moving the vehicle.
 
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254 being increased to every 12 minutes


254 Revised Timetable​

15 Nov 2022All Areas
Location:
Cause:
Responsibility:
Dates:15 Nov 2022
Changes to service 254 from Monday 28 November 2022

From Monday 28 November 2022, this service will operate a revised timetable Monday - Friday.

Main-day frequency will be increased from every 15 minutes to every 12 minutes.

Please view the revised timetable here.
 

PaulMc7

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254 being increased to every 12 minutes
It's refreshing to see something increase in frequency instead of decreasing. There are definitely more services across the network that probably need increases to help with passenger loads but the driver shortages aren't getting better quick enough to make it possible. It does certainly seem less awful than it did 2-3 months ago though so hopefully by early 2023 some more increases are possible.
 

PaulMc7

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Is Overtown just far better in terms of management compared to the other depots or have they just been a bit luckier with the effects of Covid and Brexit? I know they pay more than JMB and Stuarts of Carluke but it's quite weird how an area with a fair load of choices for drivers is the least affected of all of the depots.

On top of the two I mentioned, there are a few just slightly further up the map around North Lanarkshire too.

If it is fully management related I'm surprised the higher ups haven't used what goes on at Overtown/Dumbarton in particular to improve the structure and practices at the other depots.
 

Busman84

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9 Sep 2019
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East Kilbride
The B7TL/Geminis were decent enough buses. They were solid, had decent suspension and braking system (53/54 plates) and were up there with the best. Definitely one of the smoothest vehicles in the fleet. These near enough all ran the same; there was no gearbox settings that later B7/B9TLs had with the ZF Ecolife gearbox.
Glasgow got their money's worth out of them, though; they were used all their lives day and night and on the busiest routes in the City. It's just a shame they had faulty engine thermostats which meant during cold weather or slow driving engines didn’t heat up properly, affecting heating for the driver. It was hit or miss with them if saloons were heated or not. Just about all of them suffered from noisy fans (a common fault on older Volvos due to sensors failing) something First nationwide never rectified where other companies got the issue solved.
But these Geminis were nice buses and better than what has entered service lately.
 
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Bus Lightyear

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16 Nov 2018
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Some of them were ok, others were godawful and their bodywork wasn't exactly watertight and the same applies with the single deck version on the B7rle. We all perceive things differently but for me the Volvo B7tl with the Wright Gemini bodywork was at best bang average and not a patch on the Volvo Olympian/Alexander Royale which they superseded.
 

JumpinTrainz

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I liked the B7TLs when new. They would pop up on the old 213 at the time and were pretty revolutionary for Glasgow in terms of their modern style. Glasgow’s deckers were mostly step entrance by that point so these new buses were 'the future'.

There’s no denying they were real work horses and were never demoted from busy core services even up until the end. I hated them towards the end though. They were loud because of their fans, they were internally tired and needed a good refresh. It’s the end of an era for Glasgow but they were good enough buses.
 

Bus Lightyear

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I liked the B7TLs when new. They would pop up on the old 213 at the time and were pretty revolutionary for Glasgow in terms of their modern style. Glasgow’s deckers were mostly step entrance by that point so these new buses were 'the future'.

There’s no denying they were real work horses and were never demoted from busy core services even up until the end. I hated them towards the end though. They were loud because of their fans, they were internally tired and needed a good refresh. It’s the end of an era for Glasgow but they were good enough buses.
My recollection was they were mainly concentrated on the 18, 44 and X5 when they were new although some would also appear on the 20, 38, 45 and 75.
 

Transco

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Scotland
Is Overtown just far better in terms of management compared to the other depots or have they just been a bit luckier with the effects of Covid and Brexit? I know they pay more than JMB and Stuarts of Carluke but it's quite weird how an area with a fair load of choices for drivers is the least affected of all of the depots.

On top of the two I mentioned, there are a few just slightly further up the map around North Lanarkshire too.

If it is fully management related I'm surprised the higher ups haven't used what goes on at Overtown/Dumbarton in particular to improve the structure and practices at the other depots.
Overtown is indeed fully staffed. Currently sending 5/6 drivers per day to Blantyre to help them out whilst still having all duties covered in Overtown.

The depot manager at Overtown is well known to be a good manager.
 

scosutsut

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scosutsut
Some of them were ok, others were godawful and their bodywork wasn't exactly watertight and the same applies with the single deck version on the B7rle. We all perceive things differently but for me the Volvo B7tl with the Wright Gemini bodywork was at best bang average and not a patch on the Volvo Olympian/Alexander Royale which they superseded.
I think this is fair however it is worth remembering that the Volvo Olympian / Alexander Royale combo were essentially 20+ year old designs that had been thoroughly tested and refined over that time and therefore were a (largely) robust and reliable product.

The Volvo B7TL/Wright Gemini combos were cutting edge both in terms of product age / refinement, plus had to accommodate low floor and suddenly this new - at the time - found concern for emissions.

I think this, combined with the generally lacklustre standards of maintenance and care demonstrated over the life of these vehicles by First, the punishing routes and cycles they've been on, they've done exceptionally well.

I share the fear that more modern products (particularly Streetlites and E200/E200 MMCs for example) will not stand up to 18 years of neglect and abuse like the B7TLs have, nor do I feel any electric product on the market right now will either.
 

JumpinTrainz

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I think this is fair however it is worth remembering that the Volvo Olympian / Alexander Royale combo were essentially 20+ year old designs that had been thoroughly tested and refined over that time and therefore were a (largely) robust and reliable product.

The Volvo B7TL/Wright Gemini combos were cutting edge both in terms of product age / refinement, plus had to accommodate low floor and suddenly this new - at the time - found concern for emissions.

I think this, combined with the generally lacklustre standards of maintenance and care demonstrated over the life of these vehicles by First, the punishing routes and cycles they've been on, they've done exceptionally well.

I share the fear that more modern products (particularly Streetlites and E200/E200 MMCs for example) will not stand up to 18 years of neglect and abuse like the B7TLs have, nor do I feel any electric product on the market right now will either.
I shared this feeling too about the E300s when new. I have to say they’ve proved me wrong. Most buses are now about 10 years old or coming up for it. Internally they are quite tired and could do with a refit but on the whole they’re decent enough buses. They’re quite nippy still and the build quality so far has proved to be more robust than I had ever thought it would be 10 years into service. Not to mention they’ve been hammered up and down the express way to Helensburgh, Balloch and on busy routes like the 2, 3 and at one stage the 77.
 

PaulMc7

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Overtown is indeed fully staffed. Currently sending 5/6 drivers per day to Blantyre to help them out whilst still having all duties covered in Overtown.

The depot manager at Overtown is well known to be a good manager.
Thank you for the information. I do find it interesting how certain depots seem to be so well managed compared to others. I'm not surprised that it's the smaller ones that are completely fine though.

Caledonia was a great idea on paper but in execution, it's probably just a bit too big covering a few services too many. It's a shame Scotstoun isn't a bit bigger because there are definitely a few services that could be at least part run from there.
 

tbtc

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Reston City Centre
The B7TL/Geminis were decent enough buses. They were solid, had decent suspension and braking system (53/54 plates) and were up there with the best. Definitely one of the smoothest vehicles in the fleet. These near enough all ran the same; there was no gearbox settings that later B7/B9TLs had with the ZF Ecolife gearbox.
Glasgow got their money's worth out of them, though; they were used all their lives day and night and on the busiest routes in the City

That’s good to hear

One of the 53-plate Geminis that moved north about a decade ago has been preserved in South Yorkshire and carries the “orange line” branding for the high frequency 41 from Halfway into Sheffield (this batch of buses were the last new vehicles for Halfway depot before it closed; since reopened by TM Travel) - sorry I don’t have details of the vehicle to hand though

Let’s just not talk about the swap that took place with Sheffield losing double deck 53/06 plate Geminis and “gaining” lots of single deck B7s; I think Glasgow got the better deal there! Thankfully the 51/02/52-plate “toilet boxes” were withdrawn a few years ago
 

Jordan Adam

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I think this is fair however it is worth remembering that the Volvo Olympian / Alexander Royale combo were essentially 20+ year old designs that had been thoroughly tested and refined over that time and therefore were a (largely) robust and reliable product.

The Volvo B7TL/Wright Gemini combos were cutting edge both in terms of product age / refinement, plus had to accommodate low floor and suddenly this new - at the time - found concern for emissions.

I think this, combined with the generally lacklustre standards of maintenance and care demonstrated over the life of these vehicles by First, the punishing routes and cycles they've been on, they've done exceptionally well.

I share the fear that more modern products (particularly Streetlites and E200/E200 MMCs for example) will not stand up to 18 years of neglect and abuse like the B7TLs have, nor do I feel any electric product on the market right now will either.
The Volvo Olympian particularly earlier examples around K/L reg were horrendous for chassis corrosion and many were withdrawn early because of this.

The early Enviro200s are now over 16 years old and most are still going strong. Similarly the early Streetlites are now 12 and still going so I'd say both will easily make it to 18.
 

PaulMc7

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I think if Scotstoun gets back up to a full quota of drivers, the first service that needs a frequency increase is the 3. The reliability doesn't help either considering you can end up with 3-4 running together an awful lot of the time now too.

That's been a few times now even off peak where my bus has been full or extremely close to it. I think it would be fine if it was every 12 minutes to be fair but as it is the situation isn't ideal.

Passenger numbers across the network definitely seem to be bouncing back in the right direction though and at a decent pace this month. Obviously, the previous train issues helped massively along with the Christmas build up.

On another note, I'm finding that tracker issues are becoming more common. The app isn't something I need to say more about as I've criticised it enough previously but it's definitely been a growing issue lately that buses aren't on the app or the time is blocked out yet they turn up. Obviously, it's good that they turn up but it definitely helps plan journeys when they show as running.

The 1s and 240s in particular seem bad for just having a time but no tracking but today, the 88 I got at lunchtime wasn't on the app and the 2 just behind my 3 was the same not long after this too. I've also noticed it with some of the electric buses where they don't track at all either. The 7A on a Sunday from experience is bad for it and sometimes other services are too.

Another feature I'd love is for it to say "running" below a time if the bus has no capacity beside it on the app due to it not being ready to leave a terminus yet. It would help with the services that haven't been put in as cancelled although hopefully soon that feature is implemented and used properly so no cancellations are missed unless it's incredibly last minute.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I don't know if any regular posters in this thread reside in the Kirkintilloch area, but do the roads department of East Dunbartonshire Council have a clue what they are doing?

Today, there are 2 sets of roadworks on Waterside Road (the road from Blackwood/Drumgrew Bridge/Twechar), the main A803 Glasgow Road, and the road to the left of the top end of Gallowhill Road. All causing snarl ups and buses running way behind the advertised timetable.

After arriving off the 247, myself and other passengers were waiting at the Catherine Street bus stop for the 88 or 89 between 15:20 and 16:10. Not one 88 or 89 in the Glasgow direction came until around 16:10, but there was 2 88s heading to Harestanes together with another one around 15 minutes later. There was one 89 heading to Kilsyth via the A803. The X85/87 there were two 5 minutes apart from each other, then another 15 or so minutes later for the Glasgow direction.
 

PaulMc7

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I don't know if any regular posters in this thread reside in the Kirkintilloch area, but do the roads department of East Dunbartonshire Council have a clue what they are doing?

Today, there are 2 sets of roadworks on Waterside Road (the road from Blackwood/Drumgrew Bridge/Twechar), the main A803 Glasgow Road, and the road to the left of the top end of Gallowhill Road. All causing snarl ups and buses running way behind the advertised timetable.

After arriving off the 247, myself and other passengers were waiting at the Catherine Street bus stop for the 88 or 89 between 15:20 and 16:10. Not one 88 or 89 in the Glasgow direction came until around 16:10, but there was 2 88s heading to Harestanes together with another one around 15 minutes later. There was one 89 heading to Kilsyth via the A803. The X85/87 there were two 5 minutes apart from each other, then another 15 or so minutes later for the Glasgow direction.
I got the 88 up to the top of Springburn today and it was due at 13:10 and it left Buchanan Bus Station at 13:35 with another 88 too. The roadworks at Balgrayhill Road aren't helping either and the traffic around Bishopbriggs is horrendous even without any roadworks let alone multiple on the same route.

I noticed a couple of 89 cancellations on the app but they weren't till after 2:30-3pm towards Kilsyth.

We had the same issue in the west of Glasgow at one point too with too many sets of roadworks at once. At one point, Dumbarton Road had 4 sets of roadworks between Yoker and Kelvinhall and it made buses end up an hour late very easily. The issue is that the public will generally still moan quite aggressively at drivers instead of listening to people telling them about the roadworks. The general public have never been more ignorant when it comes to buses being delayed by roadworks and car congestion sadly.
 
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