First Greater Glasgow

[Bus Lightyear]

First Glasgow could have easily afforded to run the 19A financially.

Unless you're a bean counter you couldn't possibly know that.

 

[smtglasgow]

I think the 'traditional' route up Royston Rd can be discounted - the current service level suggests its pretty poor bus territory.

I know it's all speculation, but extending either the 57a or the 87 to the big Asda could probably be done with just 1 extra bus, so not outrageous.

 

[PaulMc7]

First Glasgow could have easily afforded to run the 19A financially.

It was a loss maker that was cut before Covid as far as I remember unlike the likes of the X1, X2 and East Kilbride part of the 31 so that shows how unfixable it became in the current state it was in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2022 ==

I think the 'traditional' route up Royston Rd can be discounted - the current service level suggests its pretty poor bus territory.

I know it's all speculation, but extending either the 57a or the 87 to the big Asda could probably be done with just 1 extra bus, so not outrageous.

The 19A was really busy through Royston at times but the problem was after Provanmill, it got mainly concession holders going to the Asda when the 8 was late and then one or two paying customers if you were very lucky.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

I think the 'traditional' route up Royston Rd can be discounted - the current service level suggests its pretty poor bus territory.

I know it's all speculation, but extending either the 57a or the 87 to the big Asda could probably be done with just 1 extra bus, so not outrageous.

It might encourage some custom from the Balgray and Auchinairn to Asda but I can't see much interest from Robroyston folk.

 

[PaulMc7]

It might encourage some custom from the Balgray and Auchinairn to Asda but I can't see much interest from Robroyston folk.

Balgrayhill Road and Auchinairn are horrendous for roadworks and congestion at the minute so I'd probably extend the 57A if I was going to touch either one as it's a bit closer from the end of Wallacewell Road and an option that covers more of the City Centre.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

It might encourage some custom from the Balgray and Auchinairn to Asda but I can't see much interest from Robroyston folk.

Council estates versus private estates you mean?

 

[PaulMc7]

Council estates verses private estates you mean?

I wouldn't say there is much in the way of council estates in Auchinairn and other than the flats on Balgrayhill Road which are Glasgow Housing Association ones, I actually don't think there is much else on the way of council estates there.

Areas with a lot of council housing vs areas with more private housing is a good debate to be fair when it comes to buses. Glasgow has a lot more private housing getting built than social housing too which in turn will probably reduce bus passenger numbers as the houses built privately always have car parking spaces in great numbers and if you can afford to buy in the current climate, you'll be more likely to afford a car too.

First will have a real battle ahead on that front. I don't know what and when the pattern will break but it has to for buses to remain viable. It shows near my area to be fair. There are constant driving lessons going on now and bus passenger numbers have been dropping off peak on the main routes except one or two services.

 

[duffers2324]

extending either the 57a or the 87 to the big Asda could probably be done with just 1 extra bus, so not outrageous.

I think they did do this with the 12 for a while and extended it from Standburn Road up to the business park just across from Asda (where the Wallacewell Farm is) and used the stop there for the terminus before using the roundabout there to come back the other way, granted though that was a bit of a strange route because it came from the back end of Asda, i suppose they could have even tried terminating it at Robroyston Brookfield going around Glendale in maybe both directions but from what i can remember it didn't last long

At the time i thought it was a bit of good idea as it allowed people in town a 2nd alternative to the 19/19a up to Robroyston or more specifically people in Barmulloch and Petershill had a slightly more direct bus than the 8.

 

[PaulMc7]

Would I be right in saying that only Caledonia seems to be really struggling for drivers still as much as it's got slightly better? Even Scotstoun don't seem to be miles off a full compliment of drivers going by my experiences lately and looking at the app.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Is

Would I be right in saying that only Caledonia seems to be really struggling for drivers still as much as it's got slightly better? Even Scotstoun don't seem to be miles off a full compliment of drivers going by my experiences lately and looking at the app.

Is there a full list of which depots operate what routes?

 

[PaulMc7]

Is

Is there a full list of which depots operate what routes?

I don't have one personally but I'd imagine there is one somewhere. I know most of what Dumbarton, Scotstoun and Caledonia cover but I always mix up a few things with Overtown and Blantyre.

 

[Brimfulofasha]

The X2 barely had any stops on the full route and I think that was part of the issue. There wasn't much of a chance to pick up a fair amount of passengers at all. I get the idea by competing with the train and using the M80 but it was always destined to fail.

I think you mean the X81. I used it when I was at university as it was quicker than the 10 (previously the 45, now the 87) off-peak. Very quiet. It was busiest during the commute but then it was badly affected by traffic at the M80/M8 merge and also on Cathedral Street.

The full route of the 87 is 30 minutes from Buchanan Bus Station to Auchinairn and the 57A is 27 minutes to Buchanan Galleries from Balornock East so with an extension to either it would probably be 40 minutes in total if you put it through Glendale to Robroyston Asda.

They have tried various extensions from Woodhill over the years - into Robroyston or even to Bishopbriggs Cross. The demand just wasn't there.

When Sighthill is fully developed again it'll be interesting to see if First direct anything that way like they did with the 10 previously. I'd not be surprised if they didn't, though. New ideas absolutely can work if enough thought is put into them though.

I do wonder if estate developers liaise with transport operators at all. The 45/10 served Sighthill well until it had been mostly demolished. They eventually diverted the 10 to run with the 88/89 through the extremely busy Royston Road/Castle Street junction, citing improved reliability (it was actually 'six and half a dozen'), but only after the first new estate was built! And the road layout now seems to prevent its resumption - Fountainwell and Pinkston do not link properly - so the elderly/infirm would have to walk from the whole estate to Springburn Road or Baird Street. The Council seem to have gone all out on 'active travel' to the exclusion of public transport in that instance.

I think there could have been scope for better Robroyston routes given the ever-increasing population (and businesses too, the new Harper Collins warehouse is humungous!), probably still using the M80, but again, the estates have been built somewhat haphazardly and don't link together well.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Saw on Facebook that the E400 hybrids have taken for disposal. Seems such a waste. Looks like they aren’t getting diesel conversions

 

[Volvodart]

They do not appear to have gone where the Geminis have been going. The one with the apparently aborted diesel conversion is still in Leeds.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think you mean the X81. I used it when I was at university as it was quicker than the 10 (previously the 45, now the 87) off-peak. Very quiet. It was busiest during the commute but then it was badly affected by traffic at the M80/M8 merge and also on Cathedral Street

I remember the X81 to be honest. It was quite handy. There was also an X2 though when the 19A was cut.

For me, there is 2 ways to look at how loss makers were handled by First in previous years before Covid:

1) It's good that they kept them for so long before getting rid of them.

2) Not changing them or working with the public/local authority to find ways to get more people using them was a big failure that eventually lead to their demise and eventual cut.

I remember when the X1 and 31 in particular were cut, they had been loss makers for a long yet had not been changed very much at all to try and fix that. Interestingly enough too, a replacement service was registered for the Hamilton part of the X1 when it was first threatened for cuts but was then withdrawn and the replacement never came into operation when the X1 was actually cut.

__________________________________________

On another note, has Caledonia had major staff illness today or a covid outbreak because the cancellations seem absolutely woeful compared to the rest of the week? It had been improving but there are 3-4 buses in a row cancelled all over the place. Fridays are usually worse than the rest of the week but today seems particularly awful compared to the last few Fridays.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

I think you mean the X81. I used it when I was at university as it was quicker than the 10 (previously the 45, now the 87) off-peak. Very quiet. It was busiest during the commute but then it was badly affected by traffic at the M80/M8 merge and also on Cathedral Street.



They have tried various extensions from Woodhill over the years - into Robroyston or even to Bishopbriggs Cross. The demand just wasn't there.



I do wonder if estate developers liaise with transport operators at all. The 45/10 served Sighthill well until it had been mostly demolished. They eventually diverted the 10 to run with the 88/89 through the extremely busy Royston Road/Castle Street junction, citing improved reliability (it was actually 'six and half a dozen'), but only after the first new estate was built! And the road layout now seems to prevent its resumption - Fountainwell and Pinkston do not link properly - so the elderly/infirm would have to walk from the whole estate to Springburn Road or Baird Street. The Council seem to have gone all out on 'active travel' to the exclusion of public transport in that instance.

I think there could have been scope for better Robroyston routes given the ever-increasing population (and businesses too, the new Harper Collins warehouse is humungous!), probably still using the M80, but again, the estates have been built somewhat haphazardly and don't link together well.

I remember when it was the Midland 177 which mainly did what the 45 previously did and the 87 these days. That was before there was major changes to road traffic management in Springburn and that wasn't yesterday.

 

[Jarcoed]

I did a ride on the X85 on Thursday from Buchanan Bus Station to Campsie Glen, those 68/19 plate E400MMC's manage the motorway better than the 65 plates ones in my opinion. And also, the X85/X87 are well used, I understand why the upgraded to the newer MMC's. Does anyone know when 34380 will be fully branded, and if any other MMC's will be getting a gold livery?

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Was on a e400 tonight on the 60 and it kept making this noise after the stop button was pressed, the recording doesn't do justice to how loud it actually was

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I did a ride on the X85 on Thursday from Buchanan Bus Station to Campsie Glen, those 68/19 plate E400MMC's manage the motorway better than the 65 plates ones in my opinion. And also, the X85/X87 are well used, I understand why the upgraded to the newer MMC's. Does anyone know when 34380 will be fully branded, and if any other MMC's will be getting a gold livery?

Considering route branding is to be dropped in Glasgow; I doubt the gold fronted one will receive any branding at all.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I did a ride on the X85 on Thursday from Buchanan Bus Station to Campsie Glen, those 68/19 plate E400MMC's manage the motorway better than the 65 plates ones in my opinion. And also, the X85/X87 are well used, I understand why the upgraded to the newer MMC's. Does anyone know when 34380 will be fully branded, and if any other MMC's will be getting a gold livery?

None will, All route branding is being removed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2022 ==

Was on a e400 tonight on the 60 and it kept making this noise after the stop button was pressed, the recording doesn't do justice to how loud it actually was

The new 72 plates do that every time the bells pressed, possibly a fault?

 

[PaulMc7]

Have any of the other depots ever being considered for having a paintshop or are they all too small for one? It's a lot of work and movement for Caledonia to do it all IMO.

 

[ScotRail158725]

It's a lot of work and movement for Caledonia to do it all IMO.

It’s not a lot of work, they’ve got the staff and the facilities for all it?

 

[PaulMc7]

It’s not a lot of work, they’ve got the staff and the facilities for all it?

I never said they don't but when you think of it as one paintshop to cover here and Aberdeen it's a lot of buses when it's added up.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Have any of the other depots ever being considered for having a paintshop or are they all too small for one? It's a lot of work and movement for Caledonia to do it all IMO.

As you quite rightly point out regularly, the government has just cut funding for local bus services. I'm a bit puzzled why you'd want First to invest anything substantial in opening new paint shops whilst the public are facing a decimated level of service due to chronic staff issues and the aforementioned funding...

 

[PaulMc7]

As you quite rightly point out regularly, the government has just cut funding for local bus services. I'm a bit puzzled why you'd want First to invest anything substantial in opening new paint shops whilst the public are facing a decimated level of service due to chronic staff issues and the aforementioned funding...

I didn't say anything about wanting them to? I just wondered if it had ever been considered. In terms of driver shortages, the rest of the depots seem to have gotten better at a decent speed from experience but Caledonia is the worst by far. Monday to Thursday seems to have improved a bit but Fridays and Saturdays still seem absolutely awful.

It's also not helped that the app cancellations feature is somehow still being tested 3 months later from when that started. I feel like it would prevent at least a few complaints if it was fully functional by now. I had received an email response on October 26th saying that there was no expected date for when it would be fully up and running. It doesn't seem promising anyway on that front.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

None will, All route branding is being removed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2022 ==


The new 72 plates do that every time the bells pressed, possibly a fault?

First time I have heard it and god it's annoying

 

[PaulMc7]

First time I have heard it and god it's annoying

I got a 19 earlier and I didn't even realise it was a 72 plate until I got off and looked. I sat at the very front upstairs and it's the worst place I think I could sit by how loud the noise is.

I hope it's rectified as soon as possible because it gets annoying very quickly.

 

[Joerf21]

Does anybody know First Glasgow's top 5 longest bus routes?

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Does anybody know First Glasgow's top 5 longest bus routes?

240 , 255 , 267,263 and possibly the 90 or 8

 

[PaulMc7]

Does anybody know First Glasgow's top 5 longest bus routes?

I don't have it at the top of my head but the 6, 8 and 90 are definitely 3 of them. The 201 is also over 2 hours long. The 60 might be another. The likes of the 1, 1A, 1B, 2, 7A and 240 aren't miles off either.

We have an awkward setup here where a lot of routes were cut in length with Simplicity and other changes but there are still a fair load of 80-100 minute routes in length.