Driver: Failing a Train

[Bromley boy]

As a controller I'll flip the story around a bit and explain it from our side -

Yes, there are certain names that crop up more often than others - generally with "pet faults" that only seem to manifest when they are driving/guard. But bottom line if train crew aren't willing to take it then that's that. Either we find a driver/guard who is, get the fault fixed/mitigated (e.g. boxed in or similar) or a combination of both. There may be a degree of coercive discussion to try and get the train to a place where assistance may be more readily provided, but no really does mean no. Performance doesn't enter into the matter.

EDIT for clarity, as I sounded quite flippant on re-read - "find a driver/guard who will" applies only after a member of engineering staff has been unable to recreate a fault, but the existing train crew remain unwilling to take the set.

What would you say the most common reason for a train being failed is, on your patch, if it's possible to identify one?

 

[GW43125]

Nothing to do with Easter eggs then?

Wrong thread!

 

[E_Reeves]

Are HST drivers (and drivers of other non-electric door loco/unit) allowed to have the doors open when the train is in motion?

 

[theageofthetra]

Are HST drivers allowed to have the doors open when the train is in motion?

You can't even run a 376 with the window open at 30+ without the saloon door & short-circuit bar banging like a dunny door in a hurricane!

 

[E_Reeves]

You can't even run a 376 with the window open at 30+ without the saloon door & short-circuit bar banging like a dunny door in a hurricane!

I'm sure I've seen a HST with the door open before?

 

[Bromley boy]

You can't even run a 376 with the window open at 30+ without the saloon door & short-circuit bar banging like a dunny door in a hurricane!

Very true. Cracking the offside window down a notch helps, though.

 

[theageofthetra]

Very true. Cracking the offside window down a notch helps, though.

True. But then you risk missing a DSD alarm if its a bit shy.

 

[Cowley]

I remember 50042 being failed for a faulty wiper in 1988 on a Paddington to Paignton train and the only thing available to put on the front was Railfreights 50149.
It was a sunny day from what I remember and I've sometimes wondered if it was done for the benefit of a few people that needed it. There were definitely a couple of enthusiasts that worked in control back then who kept some people informed of what was happening.

I remember too being on a few loco hauled trains back then that were failed due to constantly ringing fire bells, although with no obvious fire and another loco would be summoned to drag the whole lot forward.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Are HST drivers (and drivers of other non-electric door loco/unit) allowed to have the doors open when the train is in motion?

Yes...

 

[tsr]

Yes...

Obviously only if they're not interlocked and there's no danger of anybody boarding or alighting whilst the train is in motion! On some multiple units, the cab doors can be opened in motion, should they be the local doors to the door key - but if forgotten and left open on departure from a station, there's often deemed too much risk that someone could try to jump onboard the train as it starts to depart... which in this day and age is less of a familiar scenario to most people, and more likely to result in some sort of injury.

 

[Scotrail84]

Are HST drivers (and drivers of other non-electric door loco/unit) allowed to have the doors open when the train is in motion?

I'm sure guards could have their in swinging door open too at one point but not now, they must be T keyed locked whist in traffic as they are not connected to the CDL.

 

[TractiveEffort]

I'm sure guards could have their in swinging door open too at one point but not now, they must be T keyed locked whist in traffic as they are not connected to the CDL.

The two doors on a HST TGS that access the bike area and guards van aren't fitted with CDL and they aren't budget locked in service, in fact if they were to be budget locked due to a fault, the coach would be LOOU as they are an end door, thus an emergency exit.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Obviously only if they're not interlocked and there's no danger of anybody boarding or alighting whilst the train is in motion! On some multiple units, the cab doors can be opened in motion, should they be the local doors to the door key - but if forgotten and left open on departure from a station, there's often deemed too much risk that someone could try to jump onboard the train as it starts to depart... which in this day and age is less of a familiar scenario to most people, and more likely to result in some sort of injury.

No interlock on HST or Loco's. (Although it looks like the modified trailer vehicles for the short GWR HST sets will have coach door interlock, but the power car cab doors won't be part of it).

 

[Scotrail84]

The two doors on a HST TGS that access the bike area and guards van aren't fitted with CDL and they aren't budget locked in service, in fact if they were to be budget locked due to a fault, the coach would be LOOU as they are an end door, thus an emergency exit.

They are not in swinging doors and they are completely separate from public gangways/corridor connections. Mk2 brake vans have public access through the corridor past an in swinging door that is not protected by interlock therefor must be locked whilst in traffic. These doors have also been known to have blown open by turbulence of trains passing at high speeds.

 

[Muzer]

There's a likely apocryphal story I've heard of a driver of an MGR train in BR days, who, upon reaching the power station, realised he was driving a 58, and so failed it preemptively, because they're always failing

 

[rebmcr]

I often read people complaining when a Tyne & Wear Metro set is withdrawn from service that "it still managed to leave the station quick enough" or words to that effect. Clearly some of the general public assume that unless a train is literally a complete failure, i.e. unable to move they don't see why they have had to leave the train.

Probably the same folk who would gleefully seek 'compo' in the event of injury!

 

[Nippy]

As a controller I'll flip the story around a bit and explain it from our side -

Yes, there are certain names that crop up more often than others - generally with "pet faults" that only seem to manifest when they are driving/guard.

To flip it around again we know which crew, when we hear their voice, are likely to have issues with the token!

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I was on a Reading bound train at Waterloo last night when the guard announced that we would have to change trains because the driver had reported a broken windscreen. As I was just going to Feltham I hopped across the platform for the Windsor service.

I think they located an alternate train for the Reading service but the Windsor service was still quicker. I was surprised most people ignored the Windsor option.

 

[ExRes]

Just a small point about driving an HST with the cab door open for those of you that have never driven one, noise

 

[cin88]

Both horns failing on 2 37s after 5 miles, freight driver met with the reply "well can't you carry on?" to which he said (polite version) "and what about anyone on the track? That's going to look good if I run the poor sods over because they can't hear me coming innit?".

 

[TimboM]

Both horns failing on 2 37s after 5 miles, freight driver met with the reply "well can't you carry on?" to which he said (polite version) "and what about anyone on the track? That's going to look good if I run the poor sods over because they can't hear me coming innit?".

I wouldn't have thought anyone on the track would've been able to hear the horns above the noise of the English Electric tractor thrash anyway?!

 

[wbm00]

On the topic of a cab door being open:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...ning-train-with-cabin-wide-open-a3526281.html

 

[GW43125]

Both horns failing on 2 37s after 5 miles, freight driver met with the reply "well can't you carry on?" to which he said (polite version) "and what about anyone on the track? That's going to look good if I run the poor sods over because they can't hear me coming innit?".

Opposite end of the spectrum, one of the Anglia short set 37s has failed with the horn stuck on this afternoon!

 

[dk1]

Opposite end of the spectrum, one of the Anglia short set 37s has failed with the horn stuck on this afternoon!

Are they out today? I've been about on locals all day & not seen it. Nothing reported yet.

 

[GW43125]

Are they out today? I've been about on locals all day & not seen it. Nothing reported yet.

Someone put a facebook livestream up with it a couple of hours ago.

 

[dk1]

Someone put a facebook livestream up with it a couple of hours ago.

May have been yesterday's footage. They didn't come out to play today. 37424 did take 57007 to Dereham but that was it.

 

[axlecounter]

On the topic of a cab door being open:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...ning-train-with-cabin-wide-open-a3526281.html

Shocking. Also, he seems to be driving with only one hand and to add to that he's wearing a short-sleeved shirt! :roll:

 

[AndrewE]

Back on topic...
I got on a Scarborough - Liverpool train at York today, to hear the message (my paraphrasing) "This train will be delayed due to an engine fault, a fitter will be attending, if you want to get to Manchester urgently you might be well advised to go to platform... for the York to Manchester airport train, which might well go first" We had the usual dilemma: get off or stay put and take our chances?

Ironically - with most passengers detrained - we set off soon after, I guess with a fitter riding shotgun [so I'm glad te driver didn't fail it.] Still, it made space to pick up all the London passengers at Leeds who were going to Piccadilly for a train to Euston instead of their cancelled ECML services!

 

[MedwayValiant]

There's a mention above of a broken windscreen. I can certainly understand why the driver would decline to take that train anywhere, but is he supposed to fail a train for a broken window in a carriage?

It's a thing that I've only seen twice as a passenger, and both will be twenty or so years ago. On one occasion the train was an older model DMU (not sure precisely which kind), and the carriage containing the broken window was locked out of use.

On the other occasion though, all carriages were in use and there were passengers very close to the broken window. Should the driver have allowed that? (This would have been a 317. Is it possible to lock a carriage off?)

 

[GW43125]

May have been yesterday's footage. They didn't come out to play today. 37424 did take 57007 to Dereham but that was it.

Update: it was on a pres line. NNR I think.