Crossrail trains decision made Bombardier awarded contract

[gordonthemoron]

since the deal is now sealed, wouldn't now be the ideal opportunity for Bombardier to close the Derby works?

 

[fgwrich]

ARGH! Please BBC & Other Media Outlets, Stop referring to Bombardier as a British Based Company with Widespread UK Manufacturing and Siemens as a Big Bad German Company.... When Bombardier are French Canadian with a HQ in BERLIN!

From the crossrail press release.

An estimated 74 per cent of contract spend will remain in the UK economy.

 

[Monty]

The irony that Siemens was founded in the UK and to this day has a significant part of its industrial base here. Hardly the big bad German company portrayed by the media.

 

[Johnuk123]

The irony that Siemens was founded in the UK and to this day has a significant part of its industrial base here. Hardly the big bad German company portrayed by the media.

It's still German.

 

[fgwrich]

It's still German.

But so is Bombardier Transportation (as a wholly owned subsidiary of a French Canadian firm!)

I cant find the list now but during the last Siemens / Bombardier debate, one of the magazines (Modern Railways) I think did a track and trace as to which countries most of Desiro vs. Electrostars components came from, and surprise surprise Siemens was found to manufacture most of it's Desiro components over here including the Train Control Systems, CCTV systems, The Desiro Cab units were constructed over here as a complete unit and shipped across too. I think even the seats used in the Thameslink 700 and 377/6 are produced over here too.

Besides, I'd have thought some government ministers would have caught onto Bombardiers interests in the UK when the Project Thor / E Voyager business went up in smoke, after Bombardier were granted money on the basis that they use the Preston built Alstom Onyx traction packages... only for Bombardier to drag their heels and eventually turn around and attempt to use their own package as used in the Electrostars produced in Sweden.

 

[Monty]

Bombardier is still Canadian, end of the day where a company's HQ is located is of little relevance. Let's be honest with ourselves the trains arn't built here, they are assembled here, nearly all of the components are manufactured abroad. While Siemens carries out no assembly in the UK unlike Bombardier and eventually Hitachi. It still greatly contributes to the industry and economy by employing a large skilled work force in this country to carry out maintenance.

 

[hwl]

The irony that Siemens was founded in the UK and to this day has a significant part of its industrial base here. Hardly the big bad German company portrayed by the media.

Indeed in Manchester. With Siemens supplying the electrical gear for then ground breaking LBSCR AC OHLE in South London over 100 year ago, they had a hit of bad patch during and after WW1 in the UK though.
Siemens also employs more people in the UK than Bombardier...

 

[Johnuk123]

since the deal is now sealed, wouldn't now be the ideal opportunity for Bombardier to close the Derby works?

Ideal time.

 

[Monty]

I wouldn't be surprised if they did, they are still planning to make redundancies (accounced a few years ago) after the S stock contract winds down.

 

[transmanche]

since the deal is now sealed, wouldn't now be the ideal opportunity for Bombardier to close the Derby works?

It depends. The contract might stipulate that the trains are assembled in Derby...

 

[WatcherZero]

Would be illegal under EU trade rules.

You are allowed to specify in the tender that whoever wins must create a certain amount of apprenticeships, redevelops a specified site, performs x research work, etc....

 

[Johnuk123]

Would be illegal under EU trade rules.

You are allowed to specify in the tender that whoever wins must create a certain amount of apprenticeships, redevelops a specified site, performs x research work, etc....

How do you know that all those things were done.

 

[asylumxl]

since the deal is now sealed, wouldn't now be the ideal opportunity for Bombardier to close the Derby works?

Just wait for it I have lost all faith in humanity :cry:.

With trains stuck for 3 hours in a tunnel with their pantograph welded to the OHLE and the door release buttons broken or missing, Crossrail will be lucky to achieve 2 trains per day...

 

[transmanche]

With trains stuck for 3 hours in a tunnel with their pantograph welded to the OHLE and the door release buttons broken or missing, Crossrail will be lucky to achieve 2 trains per day...

Well this will be the ultimate test between Siemens and Bombardier. Both have new designs for trains to come into service at around the same time: Desiro City and Aventra mkII. In just a few years, we'll be able to hang around Farringdon station and really judge the build quality...

 

[AndrewP]

Would be illegal under EU trade rules.

You are allowed to specify in the tender that whoever wins must create a certain amount of apprenticeships, redevelops a specified site, performs x research work, etc....

This is a grey area but certainly local impact is a factor that can be considered in selection but I am not sure it has been tested in court.

I like Bombardier products as a customer but have huge respect for Siemens as a company and they are investing in the UK - they are a very British German company. I wonder if they considered an option with UK assembly from someone like Wabtec or one of the UK's bus manufacturers for example.

My prediction - the next suburban/regional train order will go to Hitachi.

The other thought is could Bombardier sell Derby and the UK designs to another company - there is bound to be Chinese interest.

 

[LexyBoy]

With trains stuck for 3 hours in a tunnel with their pantograph welded to the OHLE and the door release buttons broken or missing, Crossrail will be lucky to achieve 2 trains per day...

A bit of perspective needed on some of the anti-Bombardier comments methinks :roll:

 

[starrymarkb]

The other thought is could Bombardier sell Derby and the UK designs to another company - there is bound to be Chinese interest.

Stadler would probably be interested. They've already bought a few plants and designs from Bombardier (RegioShuttle, Variobahn)

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

This must be good news for the people of Derby.

I can never understand why the western end of Crossrail is at Maidenhead rather than Reading, which I think it was meant to be years ago.

 

[Simon11]

I found it rather amusing reading the BBC article on the award:

"Bombardier boss Francis Poanessa: "We are the world leader in rail transportation""

Hmm, shouldn't the word cock-ups be included in that quote? Only a few weeks ago......

 

[gingerheid]

I found it rather amusing reading the BBC article on the award:

"Bombardier boss Francis Poanessa: "We are the world leader in rail transportation""

Hmm, shouldn't the word cock-ups be included in that quote? Only a few weeks ago......

At least it's not AnsaldoBreda.

 

[87015]

I take it all those screaming politics have been down the bookies and put lots of money on NX winning the concession to back their presumptions that TfL have played the British card and nothing else here?

 

[starrymarkb]

At least it's not AnsaldoBreda.

And for that we can be thankful!

Have they ever had a repeat order apart from the Italians?

 

[ModernRailways]

Can this thread be renamed to represent what is really happening... Something along the lines of 'Crossrail trains to be made by the Bombardier'. Is there any need for all the Bombardier bashing going on? Why can't we just discuss the contract instead or is that too much when it's easier to have a go at a company.

To me there trains run great. The S Stock has had minimal problems - the only big issue was the bogie sets on the first 15 S8s which could have happened with any company. The Electrostars are functional, and reliable. They may not have top notch maintenance but then when you look at Southern's 455s vs SWT 455s the SWT ones seem to be a lot more capable so to me that says that Southern's maintenance regime is not as strict so less gets done when they go in for maintenance.

From what I've read Shenfield to Liv Street will be going over to Crossrail next year so does that mean that Crossrail will be using the 315(?)s and changing the livery on them or is it staying with Greater Anglia until Crossrail is complete in 2017/2018?

 

[Uzair]

The S Stock has had minimal problems - the only big issue was the bogie sets on the first 15 S8s which could have happened with any company.

The build quality of the S Stock is in my opinion, poor. Incessant creaks when running.

 

[asylumxl]

A bit of perspective needed on some of the anti-Bombardier comments methinks :roll:

Or I'm actually listing issues that have arisen with Bombardier built trains. Their quality is abysmal and drops with every iteration of their regurgitated design.

 

[D7666]

The build quality of the S Stock is in my opinion, poor. Incessant creaks when running.

I use S stock near daily.

The thing that has impressed me is how LITTLE they creak.

I've never noticed anything creaking on them.

--
Nick

 

[Uzair]

I use S stock near daily.

The thing that has impressed me is how LITTLE they creak.

I've never noticed anything creaking on them.

--
Nick

Seriously? I have no idea on what to say then. It's not something I would come up with out of nowhere .

 

[ModernRailways]

The build quality of the S Stock is in my opinion, poor. Incessant creaks when running.

I'm yet to hear any creaking when I've been on them? The only thing that could possibly be the creak is the partition between carriages when the trains are going round corners.

 

[WatcherZero]

The similar partitions on their trams are really squeeky when new, the noise dissapears when they wear in.

 

[Manchester77]

Is the aventra an actually new design or is it like the electrostars (i.e. Based on the networker?)