Complete bunch of fools!!

[Ascot]

Interesting to hear more about you arresting someone but back to the discussion, you keep mentioning this law and that law but you've yet to provide any solid references to what particular law is worthy of note here in relation to the original topic.

I too wish to see this and where about in the law or act it is in. This breakthrough could mean the end of videoing at stations.

 

[djw1981]

NR is a private company, thus filming on NR property requires permission. NR waive this for rail enthusiasts, asking that they just behave and 'check in' so they know who is on their station.

Otherwise you are trespassing.

If the videoing is commercial, then you need an agreement with NR, who will demand a fee.

 

[Nym]

32 Community treatment orders, etc

(1) The 1983 Act is amended as follows.

(2) After section 17 insert—
“17A Community treatment orders

(1) The responsible clinician may by order in writing discharge a detained patient from hospital subject to his being liable to recall in accordance with section 17E below.

(2) A detained patient is a patient who is liable to be detained in a hospital in pursuance of an application for admission for treatment.

(3) An order under subsection (1) above is referred to in this Act as a “community treatment order”.

(4) The responsible clinician may not make a community treatment order unless—

(a) in his opinion, the relevant criteria are met; and

(b) an approved mental health professional states in writing—

(i) that he agrees with that opinion; and

(ii) that it is appropriate to make the order.

(5) The relevant criteria are—

(a) the patient is suffering from mental disorder of a nature or degree which makes it appropriate for him to receive medical treatment;

(b) it is necessary for his health or safety or for the protection of other persons that he should receive such treatment;

(c) subject to his being liable to be recalled as mentioned in paragraph (d) below, such treatment can be provided without his continuing to be detained in a hospital;

(d) it is necessary that the responsible clinician should be able to exercise the power under section 17E(1) below to recall the patient to hospital; and

(e) appropriate medical treatment is available for him.

(6) In determining whether the criterion in subsection (5)(d) above is met, the responsible clinician shall, in particular, consider, having regard to the patient’s history of mental disorder and any other relevant factors, what risk there would be of a deterioration of the patient’s condition if he were not detained in a hospital (as a result, for example, of his refusing or neglecting to receive the medical treatment he requires for his mental disorder).

(7) In this Act—

*

“community patient” means a patient in respect of whom a community treatment order is in force;
*

“the community treatment order”, in relation to such a patient, means the community treatment order in force in respect of him; and
*

“the responsible hospital”, in relation to such a patient, means the hospital in which he was liable to be detained immediately before the community treatment order was made, subject to section 19A below.

I refer you to Section 17A, SubSection 5b

This is to stop them clowns standing too close...

 

[Ascot]

So where's the filming bit?

Also 2nd thing you come along now, where does it say about the yellow line on Network Rail's property or in your reference "standing too close" with a distance?

 

[Mojo]

There is no way you could charge someone standing too close to the platform under any Mental Health law!

A much simpler option, and a more realistic option would be to use the railway byelaws, sections of which have already been quoted.

 

[Nym]

So where's the filming bit?

Also 2nd thing you come along now, where does it say about the yellow line on Network Rail's property or in your reference "standing too close" with a distance?

(b) it is necessary for his health or safety or for the protection of other persons that he should receive such treatment;

Standing too close^^^

 

[adambro]

(b) it is necessary for his health or safety or for the protection of other persons that he should receive such treatment;

Standing too close^^^

Do people get sectioned for using a mobile phone whilst driving then? No they get charged under the appropriate law just as would be the case with idiots standing on the edge of platforms. There is a difference between stupid and mentally ill.

 

[Ascot]

(b) it is necessary for his health or safety or for the protection of other persons that he should receive such treatment;

Standing too close^^^

Ok so all the people that come under mental health and a yellow line is classed as medical treatment. :roll:

What about filming as well, which is one of your main points.

 

[Nym]

Ok so all the people that come under mental health and a yellow line is classed as medical treatment. :roll:

What about filming as well, which is one of your main points.

I covered filming under the terrorism act (witch I can't find)

 

[Ascot]

I covered filming under the terrorism act (witch I can't find)

So under a Mental health act i am not allowed to pass the yellow line at all, what about stations without a yellow line, they are not giving the treatment.

So under the Terrorism Act i am not allowed to film at railway stations like Network Rail said i could.

Looks like the hobbys out the window lads. Any more gas your going to say?

 

[Nym]

*Throws away the shovel, chops off his arms and stops looking at this thread...

 

[djw1981]

The Mental Health Act could be used, but does require the agreement of 2 qualified psychiatric staff, and is subject to a 24hr review.

In Scotland, you also need to get the Mental Health Commission involved, and get a judicial decision.

 

[Metroland]

Mental health act: No, not unless they start stripping off and running around naked or do something really bad to question their mental stability.

Photography: Allowed from a public place, even commercially. Should ask permission on private property – which these days includes railway stations.

Terrorism: Big, big grey area. Potentially, yes, you could get arrested for taking numbers and photographs

‘A group of trainspotters was detained and searched under Section 44 at Basingstoke station, which was on a list of possible terrorist targets drawn up by the Home Office.

By taking photographs of carriages and noting down serial numbers, the spotters were accused of behaving like a reconnaissance unit for a terrorist cell. They were forced to empty their pockets, explain their actions and prove their identity.’

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/10/03/do0304.xml

But the reality is, the police have to prove there are reasonable grounds for suspicion. Always give your identity to station staff if you take pictures on stations.

See the NR/ATOC enthusiasts’ guide.

 

[O L Leigh]

The Mental Health Act and anti-terrorism legislation does not enter into this particular discussion. The railway is private property, so you abide by the rules and regulations set down by the owner and the instructions given to you by the custodian at the specific location you are visiting. Of course the law of the land applies to private property as well as to public, but to expect to be charged with a criminal offence for straying across a yellow line or catching a piece of railway infrastructure in the framing of your shot is just bonkers.

The point of this discussion is not what someone might or might not expect to be charged with for certain acts, but what standards of behaviour are acceptable on the railways. And what that boils down to quite simply is that you should expect to be ejected from the premises if a member of staff considers that your behaviour is endangering yourself, others or public (and private) property.

O L Leigh

 

[Metroland]

This is all anyone needs to know...

Introduction

All Britain's Train Operating Companies and Network Rail welcome rail enthusiasts to their stations. The following guidelines are designed to ensure you have a safe and enjoyable experience in the pursuit of your interest.

Before you enter the platform

At major stations please inform the Duty Station Manager of your presence. This will ensure that station staff are aware that you are on the station and they can go about their duties [without concern as to your reasons for being there. At smaller stations you should ensure that you advise a member of the station staff of your activities.

You may require a platform ticket to allow access to platforms.

On the station platform

You should ensure you act safely and sensibly at all times. Please remember the following:

* Stay clear of the platform edge and behind the yellow lines where they are provided for safety reasons.
* Do not trespass onto any area of the railway that is not available to passengers.
* Do not climb on any structure or interfere with platform equipment.
* Ensure that you do not obstruct any signalling equipment or signs which are vital to the safe running of the railways.
* Avoid wearing anything which is similar in colour to safety clothing, such as high -visibility jackets, as this could cause confusion to drivers or other railway employees.
* Avoid congregating at busy areas of the platform (e.g. customer information points, departure screens, waiting areas, seating etc.) or where this may interfere with the duties of station staff.
* Be aware of your surroundings. We also kindly ask you take note of any unusual behaviour and activities and report anything suspicious to a member of staff or for more serious incidents, to the British Transport Police on 0800 40 50 40. In an emergency, dial 999. Your presence at the station can be very helpful to us as extra "eyes and ears" and can be a positive security benefit.

Photography

Taking photographs on stations is permitted providing it is for personal use. For any commercial photography, prior permission must be sought from the appropriate train operator or, from Network Rail at their 17 major stations. On busy stations the use of a tripod may cause a dangerous obstruction to passengers and you may be asked not to use one. In addition, tripod legs must also be kept away from platform edges and behind the yellow lines. Flash photography on platforms is not allowed as it may distract the attention of train drivers and train despatch staff and is therefore a potential safety hazard. You are also not allowed to take photographs of security related equipment such as CCTV cameras.


Taking photographs on stations is permitted providing it is for personal use. For any commercial photography, prior permission must be sought from the appropriate train operator or, from Network Rail at their 17 major stations. On busy stations the use of a tripod may cause a dangerous obstruction to passengers and you may be asked not to use one. In addition, tripod legs must also be kept away from platform edges and behind the yellow lines. Flash photography on platforms is not allowed as it may distract the attention of train drivers and train despatch staff and is therefore a potential safety hazard. You are also not allowed to take photographs of security related equipment such as CCTV cameras.

Railway Byelaws

To ensure ease of travel and safety on the railway system (which includes passengers, staff, property and equipment), the Byelaws must be observed by everyone. A copy of the Byelaws can be obtained at most staffed stations and is downloadable from the DFT website.

General

A key priority for Train Operators is to ensure the safety of their passengers and staff. You may very occasionally be asked by station staff to move to another part of the station or to leave the station altogether. Station staff should be happy to explain why this is necessary and if you are travelling on by train they may advise you to remain in the normal waiting areas with other passengers. If this occurs, please do so with goodwill as staff have many things to consider including the safety and security of all passengers and are authorised to use judgement in this regard.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/guidelines_for_rail_enthusiasts.htm

 

[Craig]

The Mental Health Act could be used, but does require the agreement of 2 qualified psychiatric staff, and is subject to a 24hr review.

I suspect you'd have a hard time trying to section someone just for standing in front of the yellow line unless they were suicidal, which in this case they're not. You'd probably stand a better chance of getting them sectioned for being overly excited at the sight of a train

Obviously I'm not seriously suggestion that we should try and get these stoats sectioned, that's clearly a ridiculous idea. As O L Leigh has said, they should simply be expect to be ejected from the station if caught by a member of staff acting irresponsibly (à la Nuneaton).

 

[5872]

My Comments on this,


When I go spotting at Any Station, If its one where trains REGULARLY pass through, I'll video them but at some sort of distance from the yellow line, if its a special thats stopping I'll go near it go get a good phot, but thas it. At Crossings, I'll go as far as the ''STOP,LOOK AND LISTEN'' sign, never further.

What Delticmatt and the VALEG at Northallerton are doing is pushing it too much, There over the line when a 225 passes through at the Full Linespeed which as some have said can cause death. There also partially distracting the drivers, I know I give most drivers I see the thumbs up as they go past and they reply by acknowledgement of the horn, I don't wave my arms in all directions for a long horn. It could also mean theres danger if the driver is cautious. What there doing is being most upsetting to most other spotters, giving the General Public Teenagers to Mid 30s are all like them. Roudy, Noisy, Disturbing, and use alot of Bad Language. Whats most stupid is swearing under the immense excitement :roll:, thats just utter nonsense. When I saw the BP 6.1 last weekend I gave the driver of 37405 the thumbs up and a wave and he Done two lots of the horn, and trundled passed.

Now, Trying to get a horn is not strictly banned, but its normally only meant for the Operation of the Railway. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ehlbyCKrfZk - Listen to that, it sounds like weird noises..... which I find abit creepy as its a HST at 125... , Then there comes the swearing....


I'll post more later.

 

[Aureol]

Another thing is that in some of the VALEG videos there's some stupid gimp jumping around either wearing or waving a bright red sweater/hoodie. This could easily be taken by the drivers as a sign of danger and an EM application can be made on the brakes, thus holding up the following trains and causing hundreds, if not thousands of pounds worth of penalties for one company or another.

 

[16CSVT2700]

Noted a pair of kids at Newark Northgate yesterday making those sad "horn-pulling" arm motions.. must be a couple of wannabe knobends like the VALEG twerps :roll:

 

[P156KWJ]

I find a friendly wave does it

 

[5872]

Noted a pair of kids at Newark Northgate yesterday making those sad "horn-pulling" arm motions.. must be a couple of wannabe knobends like the VALEG twerps :roll:

I like how you call fredmaster a wannabe and hstman14 off youtube :?

 

[16CSVT2700]

I don't particularily care who they were mate, they were ****ing about and going over the yellow line when there were non-stop trains about.

All this excitement over a bloody horn :roll:

 

[Jord]

Hmm, i do like horns for some reason :? and only do the "Horn Pulling" when i'm on my own and never cross yellow lines etc

If i'm in a station then i'll ask a driver to and if he says no - oh well, move on, if he says yes - then good it's a bonus.

 

[me123]

At GLC, when I'm leaving, if there's a wee kid on the end of P11a (just watching trains as many 4yos do) , the driver usually gives 'em a wee toot of the horn. Keeps them happy.

 

[Jord]

At GLC, when I'm leaving, if there's a wee kid on the end of P11a (just watching trains as many 4yos do) , the driver usually gives 'em a wee toot of the horn. Keeps them happy.

That's similar to Edinburgh Princess Street Gardens, there's a footbridge where a load of little kiddies wave so 90% of drivers toot for them.

 

[5872]

Yeah you get more horn at a Footbridge ironically... I don't bouther getting horns now

 

[P156KWJ]

you rarely get them from XC unless Nedwork Rail are on the line

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm whistling up for the lovely young mums.

O L Leigh

 

[Respite]

I'm whistling up for the lovely young mums.

O L Leigh

I second that....MILF!

 

[Nym]

Yeah, but in essex most mum's are still underage from what I've seen...