Class 93 Tri-mode Loco

[The_Train]

93002/006

Thank you

Do we know where the actual official base for these locos is? Is Worksop actually their home?

 

[Suraggu]

Thank you

Do we know where the actual official base for these locos is? Is Worksop actually their home?

At present yes.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Yes indeed…hauling 175111 and 175115 plus the barrier wagons.

I thought part of the specification for the class 93 was to couple to a multitude of rolling stock designs without needing barrier wagons. So the 93s were delivered to the UK with autocouplers, but they have been removed and stored because the radius of curves restricts them with the dellners fitted.
So does this mean ROG and the Roscos won't be ditching their vans anytimne soon ?

 

[Suraggu]

I thought part of the specification for the class 93 was to couple to a multitude of rolling stock designs without needing barrier wagons. So the 93s were delivered to the UK with autocouplers, but they have been removed and stored because the radius of curves restricts them with the dellners fitted.
So does this mean ROG and the Roscos won't be ditching their vans anytimne soon ?

Some moves will require extra brake force when hauling stock that cannot be translated and thus unbraked.

 

[brad465]

Aren't the 175 drags 45mph maximum and relatively light loads? That'll be a great test of the class 93's 4600kW overhead power and 110mph top speed

That'll be two locomotives with a combined cost of something like £10 million [correction: ~£4 million per loco so ~£8 million for two. Source: https://www.railengineer.co.uk/re-engineering-rail-freight/], earning what I can only imagine is a small amount. I'm struggling to see how ROG expects to make ends meet unless they have something in the Pipeline.

This could be a warm-up act for them, while they have been tested with larger consists, in revenue-earning business you don't want to jump the gun I'd have thought. I think having 2 of them on this though long-term is a waste (a lot of drags like this only need one diesel), I'm assuming it's a form of redundancy for this occasion.

 

[D365]

I think having 2 of them on this though long-term is a waste (a lot of drags like this only need one diesel), I'm assuming it's a form of redundancy for this occasion.

The obligatory YouTube video from DestinationTrainsPlanes shows the consist reversing at Nuneaton, with 006 leading on electric towards Wolverton.

 

[Suraggu]

This could be a warm-up act for them, while they have been tested with larger consists, in revenue-earning business you don't want to jump the gun I'd have thought. I think having 2 of them on this though long-term is a waste (a lot of drags like this only need one diesel), I'm assuming it's a form of redundancy for this occasion.

Nope, this is an unbraked move so you require something at each end for coupler translation alongside a way to create the required brake force with a thru pipe between the locos/barriers.

When ROG have used 37’s on these moves it’s been the same formation set up with Loco - Barrier - Unit + Barrier + Loco, but at a lower max speed due to class 37s providing a lower overall brake force.

 

[AndrewE]

If the route/path requires that they reverse somewhere en route and they have lots of locos lying around spare then it's a no-brainer to top-and-tail to avoid the time and man-hours needed for un/recoupling and running round...

 

[Suraggu]

If the route/path requires that they reverse somewhere en route and they have lots of locos lying around spare then it's a no-brainer to top-and-tail to avoid the time and man-hours needed for un/recoupling and running round...

Nope, this is an unbraked move so you require something at each end for coupler translation alongside a way to create the required brake force.

When ROG have used 37’s on these moves it’s been the same formation set up with Loco - Barrier - Unit + Barrier + Loco, but at a lower max speed due to class 37s providing a lower overall brake force.

 

[Snow1964]

The obligatory YouTube video from DestinationTrainsPlanes shows the consist reversing at Nuneaton, with 006 leading on electric towards Wolverton.

Nope, this is an unbraked move so you require something at each end for coupler translation alongside a way to create the required brake force.

The video shows what looks like a temporary air line hanging from the cab windows at 5:12 and 5:22 and 8:16 minutes.

Presumably operates like wagons where the third letter (brake type) is Q unfitted but with through air brake pipe. Fitted head and tail.

 

[mansonlo49]

Some moves will require extra brake force when hauling stock that cannot be translated and thus unbraked.

So I wonder is this the same case if they do the 730 haul

 

[Harlequinuk]

Why not put the dellners back on for this work?

 

[92002]

So I wonder is this the same case if they do the 730 haul

Perhaps ROG could get another move in the system with a 93 expected at the Polmadie open Day on Saturday/Sunday. They could bring a ScotRail unit from Wolverton back home

 

[Suraggu]

So I wonder is this the same case if they do the 730 haul

When the 730 cannot be ‘translated’ to a hauling loco then yes this is the case.

 

[Spartacus]

Why not put the dellners back on for this work?

As said above, the barriers are required for brakeforce regardless of couplers.

 

[mansonlo49]

When the 730 cannot be ‘translated’ to a hauling loco then yes this is the case.

Then how some 730 can be hauled directly with a 37 and some can't

 

[norbitonflyer]

The Branchline society are running railtours at Barrow Hill with a Class 93 and Class 58 on Friday 10th October. A Deltic is also operating that day at the Roundhouse.

The railtours are shuttles within the depot area, but as they will take paying customers, does this count as a first revenue-earning passenger service for the class?

 

[31160]

The railtours are shuttles within the depot area, but as they will take paying customers, does this count as a first revenue-earning passenger service for the class?

Well that depends if you don't count the cab rides offered at Derby during the open day?, to me it's just a demonstration line under a mile in length so no I'm content to just wait for the first pres line workings, you may have to wait until the spring for that though, I think a 99 will work a mainline charter first in any case

 

[The_Train]

The railtours are shuttles within the depot area, but as they will take paying customers, does this count as a first revenue-earning passenger service for the class?

For me yes. It's the first time hauling a train of paying passengers which for me differs to the cab rides at the Greatest Gathering (although I am sure those doing the cab rides would have logged the haulage which is fair enough - the wheels turned, it counts in my book )

 

[AndrewE]

Why not put the dellners back on for this work?

As said above, the barriers are required for brakeforce regardless of couplers.

if you have a coupling which is fully-functional apart from axle power instructions, why not? The loco provides braking air and the brake application instructions (whether air pressure change or electric.)

Or are you saying that an EMU which can stop itself and a loco, which hopefully can too, haven't got enough brake force to run without additional braked vehicles? Or do these EMUs need to have working regen braking to stop in normal circumstances?

 

[Iskra]

The first passenger run ended up being a very interesting consist! The 93 is so quiet though, which isn't great for enthusiasts but is for everyone else!

 

[Rail Quest]

The 93 is so quiet though, which isn't great for enthusiasts but is for everyone else!

Aye. I think the 68 will have been the last locomotive built for the UK with an enthusiast-friendly engine sound. All locos since have been massively sound deadened (all of the locos have comparably small engines, class 99 included).

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think we are only hearing the batteries in action ?.

 

[Iskra]

I think we are only hearing the batteries in action ?.

I'm not so sure, I was told it was on diesel, obviously the 20 makes it harder to tell what's going on. If you look at the video at 3:48 I think you can see the trees moving above the 93 from the exhaust, would it do that on battery power?

 

[Rail Quest]

I'm not so sure, I was told it was on diesel, obviously the 20 makes it harder to tell what's going on. If you look at the video at 3:48 I think you can see the trees moving above the 93 from the exhaust, would it do that on battery power?

TBF, you could've been on the non-engine side. From what I remember from the interior diagrams, the engine and exhaust are all on one side and some clips on YouTube suggest that the engine is far more audible on that side.

 

[norbitonflyer]

For me yes. It's the first time hauling a train of paying passengers which for me differs to the cab rides at the Greatest Gathering (although I am sure those doing the cab rides would have logged the haulage which is fair enough - the wheels turned, it counts in my book )

Well I counted myslef as having had a Hymek for haulage because of a similar shuttle at Swindon Works back in the day, until I got a proper run on one at an SVR gala a couple of years ago.

Similarly an 08 shunt of the Plymuth portion of the Sleeoper counted (back when such a thing ahppend) even though I was asleep, until I got some proper 08 haulage at the (other) SVR last month (Tunbridge Wells) .

 

[Spartacus]

if you have a coupling which is fully-functional apart from axle power instructions, why not? The loco provides braking air and the brake application instructions (whether air pressure change or electric.)

Or are you saying that an EMU which can stop itself and a loco, which hopefully can too, haven't got enough brake force to run without additional braked vehicles? Or do these EMUs need to have working regen braking to stop in normal circumstances?

In almost all cases the unit won't be braked, that's the problem. The extra vehicles are to provide brake force in addition to that of the loco, otherwise you'd essentially have an unfitted freight. Some, mostly older stock, has dual systems, mostly where they'd expect the unit to be hauled in service at some point, and there are things called brake interface units that can be used to 'translate', but I don't really know much about them, how widespread they are, or how much use they are for different stock. Think of the 57/3s.

As for the couplings, why put them back on until you need to do? Putting them on early might just mean you end up having to take them off again should the locos have to do something they're NOT compatible with.

 

[Nym]

The Aventura is capable of being translated to operate to a "Westcode" 3 wire braking system by a translator box and through cabling on the carriages from end to end.

A twin pipe braking system such as on locomotives is capable of being translated to this "Westcode" 3 wire braking system.

The Aventura also requires power to be provided by the locomotive that is used to power up vital system on board so that the brakes will function correctly.


All of these things and more are needed to 'translate' loco braking to an Aventura, and it's not a cheap set of equipment.

There's a fair few "Aventura Boxes" out in the wild, but...

I'm not sure of the Control Supply voltage of the Class 93, I'd strongly suspect it's the same as a 68 and 88, which is not the same as an Aventura making the translation slightly less simple as a DC/DC converter of "sufficent heft" would be needed to take it up to the "110V" needed for the Aventura. (The same reason you don't see a 66 hauling anything without translators).

Context, BR Locos are also "110V" and have much much much more 'chunky' control supplies than the American locos due to how the loco is architectured.

So, likely that ROG didn't have an Aventura Box set available and/or there isn't a suitable 110V supply on the 93s yet.

 

[D365]

So, likely that ROG didn't have an Aventura Box set available and/or there isn't a suitable 110V supply on the 93s yet.

Which wouldn’t surprise me, given that ROG was angling for the Class 93 fleet to be leased to a freight or passenger operator. I’m sure they were hoping that the first revenue traffic for the 93s wasn’t going to be stock movements.

 

[Rob F]

What’s an Aventura?