Class 458/5

[RobShipway]

Lot more train faults this week. Can't all be down to the refurbishment work.

Interestingly this morning at Surbiton one could board the 9.11 fast to Waterloo with first class declassified or the 9.11 fast to Waterloo without first class declassified. Both trains were 4 coach 450s and therefore looked identical.

The only difference was that the 9.11 with first class declassified was not stopping at Winvledon; Earlsfield and Clapham Junction today where as the 9.11 without first class declassified never stops at them.

At least they didn't swop the platforms around to make it even more confusing for passengers!

Could these faults be from where the class 460's where left to rust away, before being converted to class 458/5's?

 

[hassaanhc]

Could these faults be from where the class 460's where left to rust away, before being converted to class 458/5's?

There have been more 450 and 455 issues too this week. Surely not the slippery weather and wheel flats?

There was a 4 car of some description on the 0810 Waterloo to Hounslow.

 

[Dstock7080]

8005 + barriers being coupled to 3x 73 at Wimbledon!

 

[Goldfish62]

There have been more 450 and 455 issues too this week. Surely not the slippery weather and wheel flats?

There was a 4 car of some description on the 0810 Waterloo to Hounslow.

It was a 450.

There seems to be a shortage of 458/0s as well at the moment.

SWT seem to have have been short of 455s since the Summer. Presumably the retractioning of the 455s, which as due commence in May, has yet to make an appearance because of this.

I really wouldn't want to be in the Engineering Director's shoes at the moment.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I don't know why they don't resort to planned cancellations, so that way people know what's running and what's not. Much less frustrating for passengers.

 

[TEW]

The short formations are irritating because of the resultant stop cuts, which as you say vary from day to today which must be very frustrating for passengers. I'm unsurprised there is a shortage of 458/0s. AFAIK the number of 458/0 diagrams has reduced by 4, but more than 4 units have gone for conversion to 458/5s.

 

[infobleep]

I don't mind the sharing out of short formations so that the same people are not affected day in and day out. However your right HarleyDavidson it would be good for these to be planned.

I understand things change day to day but there must be some stock which is out all week that they could plan for.

If your trying to get to Clapham Junction and then suddenly you find one of the few services going their has had the stop cancelled but you were not aware because you didn't check for issues, as you were getting ready in the morning, then you would be annoyed.

If it was announced the evening before if not sooner then the train companies could say well we did warn you in advance and in turn passengers would have more time to spot these things.

This morning around 7.30am 11 services were listed in the journey check page as being short formed. However none of the short formation trains that ran this evening were included in the list. Were they really hoping to have fixed all the trains by tonight? I seriously doubt it which means bar failures today, they would know in advance which trains would be short fronted for the evening.

 

[fgwrich]

It was a 450.

There seems to be a shortage of 458/0s as well at the moment.

SWT seem to have have been short of 455s since the Summer. Presumably the retractioning of the 455s, which as due commence in May, has yet to make an appearance because of this.

I really wouldn't want to be in the Engineering Director's shoes at the moment.

Noticed the shortage of 458/0s lately - a single 455 was in Reading Station on Saturday morning presumably about to head off to Waterloo. Didn't check the number I was on a crowded XC but I'd prefer the 458 if I was going to Waterloo!

 

[theblackwatch]

Can anyone confirm if 458536 and 8005 actually moved earlier this week please?

 

[TEW]

Noticed the shortage of 458/0s lately - a single 455 was in Reading Station on Saturday morning presumably about to head off to Waterloo. Didn't check the number I was on a crowded XC but I'd prefer the 458 if I was going to Waterloo!

Normally at least one 8-455 vice 8-458 out on Reading services at Weekends at the moment.

 

[infobleep]

25 short formations tonight. I thought the 16.45 from Waterloo to Portsmouth, what I affectionately use to call the last train from Clapham, was 12 coaches but it's not showing on the list of short formations so it must only have ever been 8 coaches.

Well tonight it's packed. I think I got the last seat and only because people would rather stand than squash in, if you can call it squashing.

So yet another service that would benefit from train lengthening, one with all the many others.

 

[hassaanhc]

25 short formations tonight. I thought the 16.45 from Waterloo to Portsmouth, what I affectionately use to call the last train from Clapham, was 12 coaches but it's not showing on the list of short formations so it must only have ever been 8 coaches.

Well tonight it's packed. I think I got the last seat and only because people would rather stand than squash in, if you can call it squashing.

So yet another service that would benefit from train lengthening, one with all the many others.

No 458/5 included though I think

Think a generic "South West Trains short formations" thread is needed for the comments regarding other stock.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

There was a 458/0 short form.

1N95 1805 London Waterloo to Aldershot due 1934, which was 4 v 8.

 

[Bigfoot]

458502 is creaking more this morning than it used to when it had 4 coaches. Awful. On the plus side the wsp works well...

 

[infobleep]

458502 is creaking more this morning than it used to when it had 4 coaches. Awful. On the plus side the wsp works well...

What is a wsp?

I'll start a separate thread on short formations then seeing as it's not 458 related.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wheelslip protection I think.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It can be either. Wheelslip protection on the traction side or Wheelslide protection on the braking side.

 

[hassaanhc]

Oops. 2S38 1303 Weybridge to London Waterloo. Station screen saying it is 4 instead of 5 coaches. Nothing on Journeycheck. SWT Twitter said 4. Guess what turned up?
458531 :P

 

[Goldfish62]

458502 is creaking more this morning than it used to when it had 4 coaches. Awful. On the plus side the wsp works well...

One of my friends went on this unit the other day. She asked how a new train can make such an awful noise.

I explained to her that it was actually far from new...

 

[hassaanhc]

One of my friends went on this unit the other day. She asked how a new train can make such an awful noise.

I explained to her that it was actually far from new...

Not long ago I found 8532 and 8533 with loud creaking from the motor bogie on my driving car (so inner bogie). It happened with the absolutely tiniest of movement.

Another plus thing: 8531 has had the ridiculous announcement corrected, the one when approaching Waterloo.
Previously: This train is for London Waterloo. Calling at, and London Waterloo"

 

[theblackwatch]

Another plus thing: 8531 has had the ridiculous announcement corrected, the one when approaching Waterloo.
Previously: This train is for London Waterloo. Calling at, and London Waterloo"

I often seem to hear a similar announcement to that upon departure from Waterloo...

 

[hassaanhc]

This morning, 458534 on the 2V15 0837 London Waterloo to London Waterloo

Edit: SWT are saying it should have been doubled up!

 

[Goldfish62]

This morning, 458534 on the 2V15 0837 London Waterloo to London Waterloo

Edit: SWT are saying it should have been doubled up!

There was also a 10 car formation out, including the elusive 458502.

It's the first time I've seen them used during weekends, but having a short formation on a rugby day wasn't exactly ideal!

 

[hassaanhc]

There was also a 10 car formation out, including the elusive 458502.

It's the first time I've seen them used during weekends, but having a short formation on a rugby day wasn't exactly ideal!

There was indeed, they passed quickly and couldn't identify them! Yes it was rugby strengthening, all other Hounslow services I saw were 8.450 instead of 4.455.
First weekend use I can recall was with the Hampton 150 celebrations on 7 September, running on Waterloo to Shepperton (via Richmond due to closure at Kingston).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
458533 running alone on the 0659 Hounslow to Waterloo
458502 and 458531 sitting separately in Clapham Yard, along with a converted set sticking out of the shed.

 

[Olaf]

i doubt that SWT are too concerned with cost as money for HLOS project came from DFT , at least i think so.

There would have been an agreed budget, and targets for entry into service. Over-spend of the former may come out of the suppliers pockets, but failure to meet the delivery targets has a cost - unless there is some prior agreement that the problem has been fully out of SSWT's control.

 

[Goldfish62]

This morning 458502 is sat in Clapham yard, the 0828 Waterloo to Windsor is cancelled and both Hounslow /Weybridge diagrams appear to be 5 cars. So that's 2 out of 6 in service.

Meanwhile I'm looking across at a Southern 377/6 10 car formation which has been in service for the best part of a year.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There would have been an agreed budget, and targets for entry into service. Over-spend of the former may come out of the suppliers pockets, but failure to meet the delivery targets has a cost - unless there is some prior agreement that the problem has been fully out of SSWT's control.

I FOI'd the DfT and they stated that the extra franchise payment that would have been forthcoming by now for providing 10 car trains is being withheld. However, most of this would be towards increased access charges.

The more significant though must be reputational damage. Passengers and opinion formers not in the know will inevitably blame SWT for not delivering on their promise of longer trains.

 

[Olaf]

I FOI'd the DfT and they stated that the extra franchise payment that would have been forthcoming by now for providing 10 car trains is being withheld. However, most of this would be towards increased access charges.

The more significant though must be reputational damage. Passengers and opinion formers not in the know will inevitably blame SWT for not delivering on their promise of longer trains.

Thanks.

Yes, I agree that SWT will take the hit.

 

[nlogax]

Just driven home via anti-clockwise M25. At about 10.30pm I saw a 458/0 trailer heading in the other direction on the back of a truck, presumably to the M1 and then n/b. I thought these were being hauled by rail behind 47s?

 

[southern442]

One of my friends went on this unit the other day. She asked how a new train can make such an awful noise.

I explained to her that it was actually far from new...

In my ompinion they should've kept the original livery (as nice as this one looks on them) so at least some people would've been able to realise that the train was not new. SWT are going to get a lot of stick from commuters saying that the 'new' trains they have are awful.

 

[DY444]

This project reminds me of comments made in the mid 70s by someone senior from the SR CM&EE department about the Class 74 ED. The comments were to the effect that they had taken a reliable and well liked locomotive (Class 71) and created an almost unusable monster that was hated by everybody who had to work with it (Class 74). He is also reputed to have said that the lesson he learned was never convert anything.

I wonder with the benefit of hindsight if the current day SWT successors to the SR CM&EE department are thinking the same.