Class 456's on the move?

[fgwrich]

456003 led another 456 and a 455 on the 0831 from Dorking today. The front destination display did not work, the internal scrolling 'next station' display either lagged behind reality or ahead of it and the station staff at Epsom had to kick the front set of doors hard several times to get them to close!
Internally, the layout is poor, with few seats aligning with windows, the old toilet small window remaining in place rather than being replaced with a proper window (giving a blank wall by those seats!) and what must be the least space between facing seats on the network - passengers' feet have to touch each other all the time as there is so little space.
Not impressed with this slow and badly-planned refurbishment.

Those type doors have never really been the best of BRELS efforts, one of the 150s I had at the weekend decided on one side that they would open about 2/3s of the way, while on the other side would open and close fairly violently. The 456s never seemed to impress me from the start so that's little surprise - I do wonder why they didn't open out the toilet window however, as it is possible as being proved by the 319 conversions.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Not impressed with this slow and badly-planned refurbishment.

Badly planned,in what way?

 

[Deepgreen]

In the way that I stated in my second paragraph, starting "Internally...".

 

[Juniper Driver]

In the way that I stated in my second paragraph, starting "Internally...".

I wouldn't say badly planned,probably done with some sort of budget limitation.So what is your idea on refurbishment?

When I trained on them I didn't see too much trouble with "internal" planning.Do you mean ripping out the seats and putting new ones in?

Oh well I guess I will find out more when I get on them,what these "problems" are,but surely the passengers want longer trains even if they are 2nd hand jobs.

 

[infobleep]

I wouldn't say badly planned,probably done with some sort of budget limitation.So what is your idea on refurbishment?

When I trained on them I didn't see too much trouble with "internal" planning.Do you mean ripping out the seats and putting new ones in?

Oh well I guess I will find out more when I get on them,what these "problems" are,but surely the passengers want longer trains even if they are 2nd hand jobs.

Shame they felt the need to remove the toilets. I'm all for more space but surely a toilet wouldn't have used up to much space. I know they are for metro services but the line between Guildford and Hinchley Wood isn't exactly metro like in terms of the urban area.

 

[hwl]

Shame they felt the need to remove the toilets. I'm all for more space but surely a toilet wouldn't have used up to much space. I know they are for metro services but the line between Guildford and Hinchley Wood isn't exactly metro like in terms of the urban area.

Southern removed them during the previous refurb.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Southern removed them during the previous refurb.

For two good reasons.

1. The local scumbags kept using them for drugs, smoking & vandalising them.

2. The floors in that area were being rotted away, so therefore a sensible decision was made to eliminate both problems by removing them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Shame they felt the need to remove the toilets. I'm all for more space but surely a toilet wouldn't have used up to much space. I know they are for metro services but the line between Guildford and Hinchley Wood isn't exactly metro like in terms of the urban area.

Well they can always do what they do on the mainline between Esher & Woking and that's urinate & defecate in the corridor connections or as one did the other week, just dump on the floor.

And people wonder why I hate working in suburbia, when we have to deal with this.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Shame they felt the need to remove the toilets. I'm all for more space but surely a toilet wouldn't have used up to much space. I know they are for metro services but the line between Guildford and Hinchley Wood isn't exactly metro like in terms of the urban area.

In addition to the above explanations, the original 456 toilets were small and not fully accessible. This means that they'd need replacing before 2020 with much larger, fully compliant universal loos. FNW fitted large toilets to some 150s in the late 1990s, so it can be done on 456s... But the loss of capacity would be more of an issue.

 

[Bigfoot]

Also the tanks on the toilets were drained and then locked oou for winter months as they would freeze causing many issues.

 

[infobleep]

For two good reasons.

1. The local scumbags kept using them for drugs, smoking & vandalising them.

2. The floors in that area were being rotted away, so therefore a sensible decision was made to eliminate both problems by removing them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Well they can always do what they do on the mainline between Esher & Woking and that's urinate & defecate in the corridor connections or as one did the other week, just dump on the floor.

And people wonder why I hate working in suburbia, when we have to deal with this.

I hate it when people mess up loos. I have a key to disabled loos, which to a certain extent enables me to avoid such stuff. Unfortunately such lockable loos don't exist on trains, not that I'm suggesting they should provide loos on trains just for disabled people and other interested parties such as myself.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

In addition to the above explanations, the original 456 toilets were small and not fully accessible. This means that they'd need replacing before 2020 with much larger, fully compliant universal loos. FNW fitted large toilets to some 150s in the late 1990s, so it can be done on 456s... But the loss of capacity would be more of an issue.

Sorry that's tosh, because they were removed long before any form of legislation was banded about.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Sorry that's tosh, because they were removed long before any form of legislation was banded about.

In what way is it "tosh"? I know the toilets were removed during Southern days, but my point was that had they NOT been (or if they were to be reinstalled) they would need to be accessible. A perfectly sensible response to the question I quoted.

But if you really want to throw your weight around on an Internet forum, be my guest. :roll:

 

[hassaanhc]

456003 led another 456 and a 455 on the 0831 from Dorking today. The front destination display did not work, the internal scrolling 'next station' display either lagged behind reality or ahead of it and the station staff at Epsom had to kick the front set of doors hard several times to get them to close!
Internally, the layout is poor, with few seats aligning with windows, the old toilet small window remaining in place rather than being replaced with a proper window (giving a blank wall by those seats!) and what must be the least space between facing seats on the network - passengers' feet have to touch each other all the time as there is so little space.
Not impressed with this slow and badly-planned refurbishment.

There is also no partition between the sideways seats and the two seats facing them, making it a magnet for putting feet on the seats :/ https://flic.kr/p/p5BMzd
Been several weeks since I went on them so don't recall what the legroom was like. However it is very unlikely to be worse than the previous low seats, also used on many of the others in the Mk3 family of stock https://flic.kr/p/aPg1gF

 

[Juniper Driver]

People put their feet on the seats anyway so they don't need much invitation.I knew about the thing with the 456 toilets...i.e vandalism.Didn't know about the drugs but I suppose that happens in any toilet.Didn't know about the rotting floors.I've had good feedback about the 456's although that's mainly cab stuff.As they are going to be used for mainly short trips there shouldn't be a problem,should there?

 

[infobleep]

People put their feet on the seats anyway so they don't need much invitation.I knew about the thing with the 456 toilets...i.e vandalism.Didn't know about the drugs but I suppose that happens in any toilet.Didn't know about the rotting floors.I've had good feedback about the 456's although that's mainly cab stuff.As they are going to be used for mainly short trips there shouldn't be a problem,should there?

I wouldn't call Guildford to Clapham Junction short or if it's the last train of the day, Waterloo to Guildford. They are just examples pertaining to my own station where I live. I'm sure other examples exist.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I wouldn't call Guildford to Clapham Junction short or if it's the last train of the day, Waterloo to Guildford. They are just examples pertaining to my own station where I live. I'm sure other examples exist.

Well I've done it many times and never had a problem over the last 25+ years.(touchwood)

 

[HarleyDavidson]

In what way is it "tosh"? I know the toilets were removed during Southern days, but my point was that had they NOT been (or if they were to be reinstalled) they would need to be accessible. A perfectly sensible response to the question I quoted.

But if you really want to throw your weight around on an Internet forum, be my guest. :roll:

The toilets were removed well before SN were around, trying to remember when precisely, but I think it was late NSE or even CSS days. Definitely not SN days.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Well I've done it many times and never had a problem over the last 25+ years.(touchwood)

The main line is more of a pain if you forgive the pun.

 

[infobleep]

Well I've done it many times and never had a problem over the last 25+ years.(touchwood)

Lucky you. I wouldn't want to and couldn't be a train driver due to the long breaks you have between accessing facilities. I might like facilities on all lines you I'm guessing you have little choice on many if any line, given you need to keep the time to train.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The toilets were removed well before SN were around, trying to remember when precisely, but I think it was late NSE or even CSS days. Definitely not SN days.

IIRC in the NSE and Connex days the toilets were locked out of use and drained in the winter because frost would make the water tanks freeze up.

I think in the later Connex days they were locked out of use permanently, and removed during the SN refit.

 

[Bigfoot]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyDavidson
The toilets were removed well before SN were around, trying to remember when precisely, but I think it was late NSE or even CSS days. Definitely not SN days.

IIRC in the NSE and Connex days the toilets were locked out of use and drained in the winter because frost would make the water tanks freeze up.

I think in the later Connex days they were locked out of use permanently, and removed during the SN refit.

That's what I said yesterday! Obviously my post was ignored!

Also the tanks on the toilets were drained and then locked oou for winter months as they would freeze causing many issues.

 

[cjmillsnun]

That's what I said yesterday! Obviously my post was ignored!

Apologies, I didn't see your post.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Lucky you. I wouldn't want to and couldn't be a train driver due to the long breaks you have between accessing facilities. I might like facilities on all lines you I'm guessing you have little choice on many if any line, given you need to keep the time to train.

You can if you are desperate I suppose and I have heard of it happening.Not sure im really into all the grief and please explains for making the train run late. Actually you are right,I think I'd prefer toilets on the 456's.

 

[Feathers44]

Are they running a third pair now or is the second pair running extra services?

I have seen the usual two sets go through today (7:25 toward London and 8:10 away) but also a thirsd (at about 7:50 away from London). I haven't heard that a third set is running or that a third 455 is configured to work with them but I'm not sure there's time for the 7:25 set to get from Worcester Park to Waterloo and back in the time available.

Another set went through later on too but that could have been either of the earlier two trains turning around.

 

[TEW]

Should be 3 pairs out coupled to 456s now. The original 2 am peak only diagrams and an additional all day diagram.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Are they running a third pair now or is the second pair running extra services?

Can't get three pairs from five...... although a sixth should come tonight but it'll need commissioning.....

 

[Juniper Driver]

Saw 456003/12/14 in Wimbledon (last night) in the red flavour.Very nice.
Also saw a green one in the shed,number unknown.

 

[arty762]

Saw 456003/12/14 in Wimbledon (last night) in the red flavour.Very nice.
Also saw a green one in the shed,number unknown.

456024, was delivered on Saturday 10th Jan, currently sat by the bogie drop.

 

[Feathers44]

Should be 3 pairs out coupled to 456s now. The original 2 am peak only diagrams and an additional all day diagram.

OK, thanks. I still can't get used to seeing them rumble past.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does one unit have a problem today? I could have sworn a six-car formation went by the window at 7:50 this morning but I wasn't watching carefully enough to be sure.

 

[TEW]

There is currently an ECS red 456 path in the WTT as far as May. Runs Wimbledon Depot-Guildford via Cobham and return. I presume this is for crew training. Runs as a pair of red 456s.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W95986/2015/02/04/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W95987/2015/02/04/advanced