Class 456s and 460s

[jopsuk]

If my working out is correct, then 24 of the 30 4 car class 458 trains will have an MSO coach from class 460 inserted.

The six remaining class 458 trains get converted as follows with a DMLFO, TSO, TFO, TCO & DMSO added to each set. I would imagine that Peterbrook will convert the TSO to have 2+2 seating and the DMLFO will be converted to have windows and 2+2 seating.

• DMLFO
• DMCO
• PTSO
• TSO
• TFO
• TCO
• MSO
• DMCO
• DMSO

What route would only require six trains though?

I'm not sure I understand the point of this- if there's so much conversion work to be done anyway, why not form the 54 coaches in to ten further five-car trains with four left over as either complete spares or parts-bins? Why have six nine car units?

 

[RobShipway]

Did you manage this all by yourself or did you read it somewhere?
Not nice passing off other peoples information as your own!

I managed it all on my own Royal Oak. I may not work within the Rail Industry but understand definitions that coaches are given when they are manufactured.

Good point Jopsuk. I was seeing how you would be the best way to join a class 458 to class 460 and failed.

 

[royaloak]

Fair enough I retract the accusation, it was just that I read something similar in one of the rail mags in WHSmiths library.

 

[ChrisEJ1993]

What I don't understand is what they're going to do with the gaps caused by moving the class 460's somewhere else. Southern bought the class 442's to strengthen the Gatwick Express services, not to replace them. So if the class 460's go, what will they be replaced with?

 

[jopsuk]

More 442s- there's plenty still in storage.

 

[ChrisEJ1993]

I think using class 442's on GatEx services will cause problems.

I don't know about in London and Gatwick, it might be different there, but when I get one home to Eastbourne on a weekday evening, the jump down to the platform is massive - I couldn't do that with a suitcase!

 

[royaloak]

Are you saying the drop down is bigger off a 442 than it is on a 460?
I dont understand the point you are trying to make!

 

[MCR247]

Class 460s are perfect for airport use, large doors at 1/3 and 2/3

 

[jopsuk]

Just because one train is designed for and good for a use and another isn't doesn't mean that the unsuitable train won't replace the suitable one.

You can't apply logic or common sense here.

 

[royaloak]

But the services will continue to Brighton, the number of passengers using the Gat-Ex is quite low now that Gatwick is effectively an airport only really served by the low cost airlines so it makes sense to use the 442s on what is now an Inter-City service to Brighton.

 

[MCR247]

Why not just have Brighton Express call at Gatwick Airport and use 377s. And when SN get /5s, add more luggage space, improve 1st class and there you go

 

[ChrisEJ1993]

Are you saying the drop down is bigger off a 442 than it is on a 460?
I dont understand the point you are trying to make!

I dont know, ive never been on a 460, but it was a long way down when I got of a 442!

 

[royaloak]

Why not just have Brighton Express call at Gatwick Airport and use 377s. And when SN get /5s, add more luggage space, improve 1st class and there you go

Because there are not enough 377s to run the EXTRA services, the Brighton line from Victoria is already running at capacity so the idea of extending the Gatwicks down is that they will only use the same paths as now between Victoria and Gatwick.

 

[MCR247]

Because there are not enough 377s to run the EXTRA services, the Brighton line from Victoria is already running at capacity so the idea of extending the Gatwicks down is that they will only use the same paths as now between Victoria and Gatwick.

No, sorry but what if the current brighton express trains stopped running. And then from Victoria:

xx00 Brighton (Clapham, Gatwick, Brighton)
xx15 Gatwick (Non-Stop)
xx30 Brighton (Clapham, Gatwick, Brighton)
xx45 Gatwick (Non-stop)

Thats the kind of thing, and I said when SN get the /5s

 

[Ivo]

I'll give you a crazy idea for the Brighton and Gatwick Express services, which I'm sure won't go down very well! [Times are from Victoria.]

xx00 Gatwick Airport (Clapham Junction, East Croydon)
xx10 Brighton (Gatwick Airport)
xx20 Gatwick Airport
xx30 Brighton (Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport)
xx40 Gatwick Airport
xx50 Brighton (Gatwick Airport)

Fair enough, if a bit tight on paths? Here's why no-one will like it. My plan for stock transfers is that we bring in...

180s.

 

[royaloak]

They need more trains to Brighton, the only way is to extend the Gatwicks, there are no available extra paths between Victoria and Gatwick.

 

[SWT Driver]

I'll give you a crazy idea for the Brighton and Gatwick Express services, which I'm sure won't go down very well! [Times are from Victoria.]

xx00 Gatwick Airport (Clapham Junction, East Croydon)
xx10 Brighton (Gatwick Airport)
xx20 Gatwick Airport
xx30 Brighton (Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport)
xx40 Gatwick Airport
xx50 Brighton (Gatwick Airport)

Fair enough, if a bit tight on paths? Here's why no-one will like it. My plan for stock transfers is that we bring in...

180s.

Sit down, relax... You can tell me I'm a Doctor!

 

[RobShipway]

Besides, as someone has mentioned the 442 trains will be replaced by the 377/5 when they are given back to Southern and the new Thameslink trains have arrived.

I am wondering if anyone has thought about a future for the class 442 trains as it would be a shame to see them withdrawn. When I lived in Dorset, I travelled on them a lot from Poole & Bournemouth. Now were I live in Berkshire, I have the class 458 trains or a Class 450 desiro if I am lucky.

 

[Voyager 2093]

The 442s I dont think will be withdrawn anytime soon or in 2012 after a multi million pound refurbishment programme. I cant see that happening. They can always go to South Eastern.

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

Have you two been reading the updated RUS for the BML & Sussex zone?

 

[Voyager 2093]

No why whats going on?

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

I think that what Ivo put in jest is extremely likely to happen to satisfy the whining office mob!

 

[royaloak]

That would put some SERIOUS strain in available paths!

 

[K_H]

Just as an aside - what sort of lifespan do people think the current refurb of the Southern 456s has? I ask this as they have by some margin the most uncomfortable seating of any British rolling stock in my experience and I would dearly like to see the back of them. The seat cushion is a little over one foot from the floor, forcing even shorter passengers to fold their legs awkwardly, added to which there is insufficient distance between facing seats, so you have to do a "terribly sorry" interlocking knee dance with your fellow travellers.

Every time I travel on one it amazes me that whoever designed that layout got away with it!

 

[Drsatan]

Just as an aside - what sort of lifespan do people think the current refurb of the Southern 456s has? I ask this as they have by some margin the most uncomfortable seating of any British rolling stock in my experience and I would dearly like to see the back of them. The seat cushion is a little over one foot from the floor, forcing even shorter passengers to fold their legs awkwardly, added to which there is insufficient distance between facing seats, so you have to do a "terribly sorry" interlocking knee dance with your fellow travellers.

Every time I travel on one it amazes me that whoever designed that layout got away with it!

The 456s are 10 years newer than the 455s, so they were 'refreshed' as opposed to 'refurbished'. For some reason Southern decided to keep the low-backed seating.

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

God, I've just returned from a trip to London and it's only when I return to Taunton and the short drive home do I realise how lucky I was to be able to leave the rat race in the SE and move to the SW; What is it about London and SE, haven't people heard of please, thank you & excuse me? It's not rocket science, its a simple thing called manners.

 

[ChampsRacing]

Was discussing about the 456s in the mess room the other day, what are they going to do about guard is what i want to know, as with 159s and 170s you needed two guards so are they going to have two guards for 455s and 456s?

 

[royaloak]

You reckon SWT will put 2 guards on, I dont, will be interesting to see what happens, probably nothing as SWT will say it works okay on Southern, which dont have guards on Suburban services anyway.

 

[Fincra5]

Besides, as someone has mentioned the 442 trains will be replaced by the 377/5 when they are given back to Southern and the new Thameslink trains have arrived.

I am wondering if anyone has thought about a future for the class 442 trains as it would be a shame to see them withdrawn. When I lived in Dorset, I travelled on them a lot from Poole & Bournemouth. Now were I live in Berkshire, I have the class 458 trains or a Class 450 desiro if I am lucky.

I'd like to seem them used as Brighton Express over Gatex, use some o fthe 377/5s on gatex

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

Was discussing about the 456s in the mess room the other day, what are they going to do about guard is what i want to know, as with 159s and 170s you needed two guards so are they going to have two guards for 455s and 456s?

You don't need two guards, if you have a 158/9 & 170 combination the driver is obviously on the front unit & guard on the rear, so if in the unlikely event the train divides or something goes wrong on either half then there's a member of traincrew on each part.