Class 455 with AC Motors

[Sparks807Evo]

I'm sorry if some of you have issues with that stance, however if I go and attempt to do something that I haven't been shown how to do or trained to do and something goes wrong or damaged and/or someone gets injured it's me who's in the firing line and me who stands to be taken to court. Nah, sorry, you show me in a controlled & safe environment first, let me practise it a few times, then I'll be happy to do it, not before.

As BR "Old School" I find this weird & topsy turvy way doing things completely unacceptable.

Better safe than sorry - I would be the exact same as you - I'd like a few practice runs first in order to get a feel for how it handles. Certainly if your coupling/un-coupling technique has to be altered as a result.

 

[bramling]

We've been given a pathetically thin 8 or 10 page booklet detailing the differences, to many that may suffice.

I for one says it most certainly doesn't, that's why they're having to provide a DI to come with you for your first trips with them, as they do handle slightly differently, especially when braking.

We're also meant to be having a day or two's extra training on them according to DFC for "Banging & Clanging" as we call it or coupling & uncoupling practice as it's different to camshaft controlled units, because apparently they won't move under notch 1 (Shunt) & step 1 brake, which you do to ease on to another unit. So until they show or tell me how to do it, someone else can do it.

I'm sorry if some of you have issues with that stance, however if I go and attempt to do something that I haven't been shown how to do or trained to do and something goes wrong or damaged and/or someone gets injured it's me who's in the firing line and me who stands to be taken to court. Nah, sorry, you show me in a controlled & safe environment first, let me practise it a few times, then I'll be happy to do it, not before.

As BR "Old School" I find this weird & topsy turvy way doing things completely unacceptable.

Quite right too.

The last thing anyone needs is for something to go wrong on the running line and the staff finding things aren't as they thought.

Quite why anyone would be put in this situation is beyond me, as it's in everyone's best interest (but I've seen it happen enough!).

 

[cjmillsnun]

We've been given a pathetically thin 8 or 10 page booklet detailing the differences, to many that may suffice.

I for one says it most certainly doesn't, that's why they're having to provide a DI to come with you for your first trips with them, as they do handle slightly differently, especially when braking.

We're also meant to be having a day or two's extra training on them according to DFC for "Banging & Clanging" as we call it or coupling & uncoupling practice as it's different to camshaft controlled units, because apparently they won't move under notch 1 (Shunt) & step 1 brake, which you do to ease on to another unit. So until they show or tell me how to do it, someone else can do it.

I'm sorry if some of you have issues with that stance, however if I go and attempt to do something that I haven't been shown how to do or trained to do and something goes wrong or damaged and/or someone gets injured it's me who's in the firing line and me who stands to be taken to court. Nah, sorry, you show me in a controlled & safe environment first, let me practise it a few times, then I'll be happy to do it, not before.

As BR "Old School" I find this weird & topsy turvy way doing things completely unacceptable.

Nothing to be sorry about. If I were in your shoes I would be exactly the same.

 

[MatthewRead]

It was green because its a Southern unit (unsure if you're joking or not tbh!)

Yes sorry I meant 455 870

 

[Deepgreen]

The other AC unit (59xx?) was paired with two 456s at Epsom yesterday evening.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

That's tempting fate... And that'll be 5904.

 

[LT3001]

Current retractioned units as far as I can tell are:

5732+5705
5870+5904

Does anyone know of of any other completed/in progress/scheduled units?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Apparently 5707, after that one, I haven't got a clue what the next victim is.

 

[MatthewRead]

Apparently 5707, after that one, I haven't got a clue what the next victim is.

Victim?? I like the new traction equipment sounds like C stock in pre-refurbished condition

 

[Goldfish62]

Does anyone know how many units have been re-tractioned by now? Based on what I've observed I'd guess at least a third of the units.

I travelled on one the other day for the first time. I was surprised at how loud and how relatively old-fashioned the new traction equipment sounded. As a previous poster remarked, like pre-refurb C-stock, but with an added background electronic buzz.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone know how many units have been re-tractioned by now? Based on what I've observed I'd guess at least a third of the units.

There was a list in wnxx a couple of weeks back, they reckoned only 18 were done, or in hand.

They do seem to be at 'production run' type turnarounds now though, after many false dawns...

 

[Class455]

455 733 recently got its AC motors, had it today on a Strawberry Hill Loop Service, but I was on 455 849, so didn't get to hear it in action.
I do hope Southern give this treatment to their 455's, rather than reducing their workload due to "reliability concerns". If the project is a success with the SWT 455's, then they should consider adding Vossloh motors to 455 801-846.

 

[WVL14]

Does anyone know how many units have been re-tractioned by now? Based on what I've observed I'd guess at least a third of the units.

I travelled on one the other day for the first time. I was surprised at how loud and how relatively old-fashioned the new traction equipment sounded. As a previous poster remarked, like pre-refurb C-stock, but with an added background electronic buzz.

18 unit done - In order of being released
5732, 5870, 5904, 5705, 5707, 5733, 5738, 5711, 5916, 5709, 5714, 5713, 5719, 5715, 5716, 5720, 5721, 5725

3 units at Eastleigh being done
5726, 5731, 5741

 

[swt_passenger]

I do hope Southern give this treatment to their 455's, rather than reducing their workload due to "reliability concerns". If the project is a success with the SWT 455's, then they should consider adding Vossloh motors to 455 801-846.

Most unlikely that they'll do the Southern trains. One of the primary reasons for modifying the SWT fleet is to reduce their maintenance load so that Wimbledon can look after the 707s in the same depot space. That part of the business case won't apply to the Southern fleet.

 

[edwin_m]

Can't see much new money being committed to 455s now, considering that Anglia has made a case to replace the similar but newer 321s.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There was a mention in another thread about the possibility of 455s and maybe 456s getting axed by the next franchise, iirc it was something to do with station dwell times

 

[hwl]

Can't see much new money being committed to 455s now, considering that Anglia has made a case to replace the similar but newer 321s.

Especially as the Southern 313 will need replacing too.
The narrow doors on the 455s are causing lots of dwell time issues.

 

[D365]

There was a mention in another thread about the possibility of 455s and maybe 456s getting axed by the next franchise, iirc it was something to do with station dwell times

Depends on how far the planning for Crossrail 2 is expected to progress. Although, to be fair, if more Class 707s are ordered it may well be possible that these could serve Crossrail 2 when it comes online.

 

[hwl]

Depends on how far the planning for Crossrail 2 is expected to progress. Although, to be fair, if more Class 707s are ordered it may well be possible that these could serve Crossrail 2 when it comes online.

Not going to happen. The new stock will have the performance (acceleration + dwell times) to match the CR2 stock to make timetabling on shared lines efficient but nothing more.
Post CR2 opening the SW franchise will need all the 455/456 replacement stock and slightly more to run their own services out of Waterloo...

 

[D365]

Ah right, I assumed that much of the fleet replacement needs would be covered by Crossrail 2 stock.

 

[Welly]

My mate's house and garden backs onto a 455 served line and I noticed just how load the accelerating AC motors are inside the back rooms. Never been that loud in the 20 odd years that he lived there.

 

[cjmillsnun]

There was a mention in another thread about the possibility of 455s and maybe 456s getting axed by the next franchise, iirc it was something to do with station dwell times

Station dwell times? On sliding door trains with 1/3 and 2/3 doors? Ummm no. The doors open full width on SWT stock.

 

[causton]

Station dwell times? On sliding door trains with 1/3 and 2/3 doors? Ummm no. The doors open full width on SWT stock.

I was about to say, on our line the absolute minimum dwell time on a Desiro is 45 seconds and I don't think that is ever achieved in practice as they are so slow to release and open and close the doors!

 

[J-2739]

Station dwell times? On sliding door trains with 1/3 and 2/3 doors? Ummm no. The doors open full width on SWT stock.

Maybe they have 4 doors per side of car planned?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I was about to say, on our line the absolute minimum dwell time on a Desiro is 45 seconds and I don't think that is ever achieved in practice as they are so slow to release and open and close the doors!

The guard opens their local door first, checks the train is in the platform them presses whatever the button is on the guard's panel to release the rest of the doors on the same side.

 

[Goldfish62]

Station dwell times? On sliding door trains with 1/3 and 2/3 doors? Ummm no. The doors open full width on SWT stock.

Yes, actually. The doorways on 455s are narrow and the door operation is slow compared with the Desiro City. The 455s were fine when introduced but as modern urban mass people movers requiring minimal dwell times and sprightly performance they are no longer fit for purpose.

 

[hwl]

Yes, actually. The doorways on 455s are narrow and the door operation is slow compared with the Desiro City. The 455s were fine when introduced but as modern urban mass people movers requiring minimal dwell times and sprightly performance they are no longer fit for purpose.

Agreed, 1.75 person width doors don't cut the mustard any more compared to 3 person ones...

 

[Mikey C]

Yes, actually. The doorways on 455s are narrow and the door operation is slow compared with the Desiro City. The 455s were fine when introduced but as modern urban mass people movers requiring minimal dwell times and sprightly performance they are no longer fit for purpose.

How do the door widths compare with those of the Networkers and urban Electrostars (i.e. 376 and 378)?

 

[Monty]

Station dwell times? On sliding door trains with 1/3 and 2/3 doors? Ummm no. The doors open full width on SWT stock.

Agreed the 455s are probably our best units for dwell times. Far better than a desiro or a 159.

 

[hwl]

How do the door widths compare with those of the Networkers and urban Electrostars (i.e. 376 and 378)?

455s doors are narrower but original (Southern) 455 vestibule slightly wider than the Networker but vestibule far far wider on the modified SWT 455s.