Class 455 with AC Motors

[Mikey C]

455s doors are narrower but original (Southern) 455 vestibule slightly wider than the Networker but vestibule far far wider on the modified SWT 455s.

I assume the wider vestibule makes a difference, even with the original door sizes

Slightly off topic, but I find getting off Networkers that the step slows me down as it's slightly lower than the floor of the vehicle, and thus I have to look down and concentrate.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, actually. The doorways on 455s are narrow and the door operation is slow compared with the Desiro City. The 455s were fine when introduced but as modern urban mass people movers requiring minimal dwell times and sprightly performance they are no longer fit for purpose.

There's a significant section of the new franchise ITT given over to discussing capacities and dwell times etc, and the surprising detail in it was DfT reducing the alleged passenger standing capacity of the 455s from 4 to 3 per sq metre, and also surprisingly stating that even the 707s will not meet the hoped for 4 per sq m. They also point out that all train type's dwell times are deemed excessive when calling at Clapham Junction, because the turnover (churn) of passengers is too much for the doorways.

 

[Nym]

Ummm, Porterbrook did some testing on the Class 455s during a game at Twickenham, the reported standing rate was 11.4 passengers per square metre.

 

[Goldfish62]

Ummm, Porterbrook did some testing on the Class 455s during a game at Twickenham, the reported standing rate was 11.4 passengers per square metre.

Which is clearly complete nonsense as they would all be crushed to death.

 

[AM9]

Which is clearly complete nonsense as they would all be crushed to death.

Maybe they were in a scrum.

 

[Deepgreen]

Which is clearly complete nonsense as they would all be crushed to death.

Not really - if you mark out a sq. metre, you can easily (by squashed train standing standards) get at least a three by three pattern of (slim-ish) passengers in, with a couple more worked into the edges/corners. It may sound like a lot but it's not uncommon in crush loading situations.

 

[swt_passenger]

London Underground apparently assumes a crush load allowance of 8 per sq m in doorway areas and 6 per sq m elsewhere.

The 4 per sq m or 3 per sq m discussion in the Southwestern Franchise specification is pretty much academic for planning purposes, as passengers clearly get on many trains in far higher numbers.

 

[antharro]

Out of curiosity, how many 455s have been retractioned? I'm currently at Waterloo and more than a couple of them have sounded distinctly un-455 like. More like a cross between a 458 and a 444/450.

 

[swt_passenger]

Out of curiosity, how many 455s have been retractioned? I'm currently at Waterloo and more than a couple of them have sounded distinctly un-455 like. More like a cross between a 458 and a 444/450.

Mid September it was posted that 18 were done, with 3 in hand at that time. It would seem unlikely they've done more than about 23 or 24 by now.

 

[Class455]

Is there a particular reason why most of the SWT 455/8's haven't been repainted and/or retractioned yet? The only ones left with the original door alarms are most of the 455/8's. Also, only one 455/8 has been retractioned (455870). This makes me sceptical about if the 455/8's could be leaving the SWT fleet (but I very much doubt that) or are they just being done last?

 

[43096]

Is there a particular reason why most of the SWT 455/8's haven't been repainted and/or retractioned yet? The only ones left with the original door alarms are most of the 455/8's. Also, only one 455/8 has been retractioned (455870). This makes me sceptical about if the 455/8's could be leaving the SWT fleet (but I very much doubt that) or are they just being done last?

No idea on re-tractioning, but the 455/8s are last in the programme for repaint and PRM work simply because they were the last to get the C6+refurbishment last time, and they are going for the current C62 work at Bournemouth in basically the same order as last time.

 

[Helvellyn]

No idea on re-tractioning, but the 455/8s are last in the programme for repaint and PRM work simply because they were the last to get the C6+refurbishment last time, and they are going for the current C62 work at Bournemouth in basically the same order as last time.

Yep. It was roughly the 455/9s, then 455/7s then 455/8s when they were refurbished first time around.

 

[43096]

Yep. It was roughly the 455/9s, then 455/7s then 455/8s when they were refurbished first time around.

I thought it was 455/7, then 455/9, and finally 455/8, although 5904 was done early on with the first 455/7s.

 

[Bigfoot]

Is there a particular reason why most of the SWT 455/8's haven't been repainted and/or retractioned yet? The only ones left with the original door alarms are most of the 455/8's. Also, only one 455/8 has been retractioned (455870). This makes me sceptical about if the 455/8's could be leaving the SWT fleet (but I very much doubt that) or are they just being done last?

There is only currently one /9 retractioned too. There was one of each class retractioned so as to know the pitfalls of each subclass.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is this train:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W97125/2016/10/13/advanced

a 455 being tested? It sounded like it could have been a 455 (didn't sound like the UFO sound of a Desiro)

 

[43096]

Is this train:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W97125/2016/10/13/advanced

a 455 being tested? It sounded like it could have been a 455 (didn't sound like the UFO sound of a Desiro)

No, it looks more like an MPV working a RHTT.

 

[Class455]

455 874 has recently come back from overhaul by the looks of things, had it on a Shepperton train looking very shiny indeed, and the interior looking fresh, but surprisingly it hasn't been retractioned yet. Does anyone know which 455 is currently in for a retraction? Want to look out for it when it comes back.

Picture of it here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100198363@N02/30414060485/in/datetaken-public/

 

[swt_passenger]

455 874 has recently come back from overhaul by the looks of things, had it on a Shepperton train looking very shiny indeed, and the interior looking fresh, but surprisingly it hasn't been retractioned yet.

There's no systematic linkage between the two completely separate projects. The interior overhaul apparently broadly matches the order they were done in last time.

 

[TEW]

Most the units have had the interior overhaul now too, it's just the last of the 455/8s to be done. The retractioning however has only really just started, and the 455/7s are being done first.

 

[antharro]

Hold up, I thought all of the 455s had had their interior overhaul and were now off to Bournemouth for paint? (The retractioning being a separate project as stated).

 

[MatthewRead]

The 455's haven't really been re-done inside 870 is the only unit not to have DDA compliance's but has been retractioned

 

[Class455]

The 455's haven't really been re-done inside 870 is the only unit not to have DDA compliance's but has been retractioned

I thought all 455's were made to be DDA compliant upon their refurbs around 2004, well certainly all Southern units were made DDA compliant, with a wheelchair area in the TSO. And the SWT 455's have wheelchair space in both driving cars.

 

[TEW]

Southern's units aren't compliant with the 2020 PRM-TSI regulations. SWT's units needed new door sounders, including sounds when the doors are released, new interior gangway door handles, a call for aid system and on train ramps, with locating pins within the door step. Possibly some other things too. Southern units would need all that done too, they'd also need new external door buttons as the current ones aren't compliant, and possibly other stuff too.

 

[Class455]

Southern's units aren't compliant with the 2020 PRM-TSI regulations. SWT's units needed new door sounders, including sounds when the doors are released, new interior gangway door handles, a call for aid system and on train ramps, with locating pins within the door step. Possibly some other things too. Southern units would need all that done too, they'd also need new external door buttons as the current ones aren't compliant, and possibly other stuff too.

Where are the call for aid button's located on SWT's Class 455's? I think Eversholt will, within the next few years make their 455's 2020 compliant as only minor work is needed, and this can all be done in-house. They're also investing in their older units (for example the 321's) so I wouldn't see why they wouldn't do any work on the 455's.

 

[TEW]

The Call for Aids are located adjacent to the wheelchair spaces in both driving coaches. Most units have them fitted now, but not all. There are still some 455/8s to go through the overhaul programme.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The Call for Aids are located adjacent to the wheelchair spaces in both driving coaches. Most units have them fitted now, but not all. There are still some 455/8s to go through the overhaul programme.

...and they are located so that whenever anyone sits in the tip up seat adjacent to them, their shoulders are forever triggering the buttons. There's no protective lift up flap and they are placed exactly where a seated passenger's shoulder would naturally be.:roll:

 

[Bigfoot]

...and they are located so that whenever anyone sits in the tip up seat adjacent to them, their shoulders are forever triggering the buttons. There's no protective lift up flap and they are placed exactly where a seated passenger's shoulder would naturally be.:roll:

Bizarre how I've never hit one yet. They're not flimsy buttons. They need a firm press..

 

[Juniper Driver]

Bizarre how I've never hit one yet. They're not flimsy buttons. They need a firm press..

Ha! 458's yes and also the desiro toilets a plenty for pressing the wrong button.Not on 455/456 so far.

 

[TEW]

As a driver though you wouldn't know about a 455/456 Call for Aid being pressed, they can only be answered by the guard in a cab other than the leading one. The driver shouldn't get any indication that one has been activated. I have had a few pressed by accident, but it's not too common.

 

[MatthewRead]

That's what I meant PRM TSI but they haven't received a proper refurbishment and they need it and also the class 4558/5's are not in great condition even thought the seats are only a couple of years old.