Class 455 with AC Motors

[SpacePhoenix]

Presumably for guards there's no differences between the ones with the old motors abd the ones with the AC motors. From a driver's perspective is there much difference in how they handle?

 

[SPADTrap]

We have the same with our AC 317. It's a new traction and needs to be signed separately, it's very different in the cupboards. If you don't specifically sign it you don't drive it. This is the real world where actions have consequences, it isn't train sim.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

We have the same with our AC 317. It's a new traction and needs to be signed separately, it's very different in the cupboards. If you don't specifically sign it you don't drive it. This is the real world where actions have consequences, it isn't train sim.

Do guards normally access the cupboards or are they strictly drivers and fitters only?

 

[SPADTrap]

Do guards normally access the cupboards or are they strictly drivers and fitters only?

I'm not sure about guards as my company is DOO

 

[TEW]

Guards don't go in the cupboards within the carriages on a 455. By and large the only relevant cupboards are the ones with emergency equipment in, and they're in the vestibule behind the cab on a 455.

 

[Midmat]

I note 5870 has had flower motifs/pictures added to the outside of at least a couple of carriages. Assume this is to do with the regeneration capability? Not sure how people can guess that though unless they read rail forums...

I assume the 455s aren't all going to end up converted in flowers?!

 

[Bigfoot]

I think quite a few will. It quickly identifies which units have been changed and therefore you can identify what you're dealing with. Many of the 455s have ac system lights in the cab but still have dc motors.

 

[TEW]

5870 has a prominent 'AC Traction Unit' sticker in the cab too, presumably they'll all get that when they're fitted.

 

[Midmat]

I think quite a few will. It quickly identifies which units have been changed and therefore you can identify what you're dealing with. Many of the 455s have ac system lights in the cab but still have dc motors.

Thanks. Makes sense but just looks very random. I prefer for example what TFL does on hybrid buses: some green leaves and then text explaining why the bus is 'special'.

Do the 450/444/458s have regeneration braking now? Never seen any flowers on them.

 

[SPADTrap]

Do the 450/444/458s have regeneration braking now? Never seen any flowers on them.

The 450s/444s didn't have regen from birth?! Is that a DC thing?

 

[cjmillsnun]

According to this from 5 Jul 2012 http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...st-trains-upgrades-emu-fleet.html?channel=000 they did not.

BRITSH train operator South West Trains (SWT) together with Siemens and leasing company Angel Trains have announced plans to equip all 45 SWT class 444 Desiro five-car emus with Wi-Fi and also forward facing CCTV in drivers cabs in a £3.2 million project to be completed in the next year.

In addition, the class 444s and all of SWT's 127 class 450 trains will also be equipped with automatic selective door opening and coupler heating systems developed in conjunction with coupler manufacturer Dellner. All the class 444s have already been fitted with the coupler heaters and the remaining class 450 trains will be equipped before this winter.

SWT has witnessed annual ridership growth of 2.5% in recent years, despite Britain's double-dip recession, and expects to use its existing trains more intensively, while also supplementing the fleet with former Gatwick Express class 460s and class 456s from neighbouring operator Southern.

As part of ongoing investment to improve fleet reliability and reduce track wear, all class 444 wheelsets are now equipped with variable stiffness bushes developed by Freudenberg Schwab, Germany. The bushes are designed using internal fluid reservoirs to reduce stiffness at lower speeds (when most track damage was occurring) and increase stiffness at higher speeds to maintain passenger comfort.

Work to install the variable stiffness bushes on the class 450 fleet will begin in September after the London Olympic and Paralympic games. Infrastructure manager Network Rail has part-funded the wheelset modification programme.

The entire SWT Desiro fleet is now fitted with regenerative braking following an 18-month programme to equip the trains and a 5% net reduction energy usage has been achieved, although the amount of energy returned to the grid via the third rail is greater in busier urban areas.

The 458/5s also have regen braking.

 

[Bigfoot]

Thanks. Makes sense but just looks very random. I prefer for example what TFL does on hybrid buses: some green leaves and then text explaining why the bus is 'special'.

Do the 450/444/458s have regeneration braking now? Never seen any flowers on them.

The flowers are nothing to do with regeneration braking. The desiros always have and still do brake in the same way as they always did. Just now instead of always being dissipated as heat in the brake resistors only, the software calculates if it can feed back in to the power supply. If not it is then still dissipated through the brake resistors.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are the ones with the AC motors able to work in service with the ones with DC motors and with 456s?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Are the ones with the AC motors able to work in service with the ones with DC motors and with 456s?

Yep.

And as for your query about 444 450 having dynamic or regenerative brake, they came as standard.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Yep.

And as for your query about 444 450 having dynamic or regenerative brake, they came as standard.

According to that article I quoted either they did not or the regen side wasn't initially enabled.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Dynamic braking was most definitely there from the start, although come to I think about it I think you're right about the regenerative braking side of it, because the electrical equipment line side wasn't able to accept the current back into the system.

 

[Deepgreen]

The flowers are nothing to do with regeneration braking. The desiros always have and still do brake in the same way as they always did. Just now instead of always being dissipated as heat in the brake resistors only, the software calculates if it can feed back in to the power supply. If not it is then still dissipated through the brake resistors.

What do the flowers represent? I've not seen this yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yep.

And as for your query about 444 450 having dynamic or regenerative brake, they came as standard.

Would the presence of an AC 455 which is, say, sandwiched between a DC 455 and a 456 mean that the train would require the driver to be trained/coached in service to take it?

 

[bramling]

What do the flowers represent? I've not seen this yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Would the presence of an AC 455 which is, say, sandwiched between a DC 455 and a 456 mean that the train would require the driver to be trained/coached in service to take it?

Probably, yes.

There should never be a situation where a driver isn't familiar with any piece of equipment on his train that he may be required to deal with. So any new switch, MCB or whatever, plus anything removed or no longer used, or any altered fault-finding or handling procedure, and the driver needs a minimum of briefing.

Given the scale of the changes, I'd be surprised if there was no difference for the driver on the modified trains.

 

[edwin_m]

According to that article I quoted either they did not or the regen side wasn't initially enabled.

I was involved in preparing parts of the safety case for these. Although it wasn't one of my parts I seem to remember that Siemens put a big diode in the cable from the shoegear because it was easier than trying to prove to Railtrack/NR that the traction package would never regenerate. It was of course designed to regenerate and I presume disabled in software, so relatively easy to re-activate once NR authorised it.

 

[MatthewRead]

Yesterday I thought I'd seen one of the retractioned units at Clapham Junction it had green leave vinyls on one of the carriage sides the unit was 455 840.

 

[MCR247]

Yesterday I thought I'd seen one of the retractioned units at Clapham Junction it had green leave vinyls on one of the carriage sides the unit was 455 840.

It was green because its a Southern unit (unsure if you're joking or not tbh!)

 

[Bigfoot]

It was green because its a Southern unit (unsure if you're joking or not tbh!)

If it's 5840 it's definitely green! That's a southern unit.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's 455 870 that has the green leaf logos on it, next to the doors.

 

[MatthewRead]

It's 455 870 that has the green leaf logos on it, next to the doors.

Yes that's right is that one of the re-tractioned units I know the other is 455 732!

 

[59CosG95]

I saw 5870 paired up with 5904 yesterday afternoon at Wimbledon: swear I could've heard the new motors on the latter as well!

 

[Deepgreen]

It's 455 870 that has the green leaf logos on it, next to the doors.

Saw 5870 with another arriving at Epsom the other evening, and I could hear the motors even from on board my departing train. The stickers, by the way, are essentially yellow flowers, with a few leaves. I still haven't seen what these are supposed to represent as it has been stated here that they are nothing to do with the re-motoring.

I assume 5840 was a typo/mis-sighting.

 

[swt_passenger]

Photo of vinyls attached taken at Southampton a few months back, it would be quite a coincidence if they were randomly fitted to the only unit converted?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Probably, yes.

There should never be a situation where a driver isn't familiar with any piece of equipment on his train that he may be required to deal with. So any new switch, MCB or whatever, plus anything removed or no longer used, or any altered fault-finding or handling procedure, and the driver needs a minimum of briefing.

Given the scale of the changes, I'd be surprised if there was no difference for the driver on the modified trains.

We've been given a pathetically thin 8 or 10 page booklet detailing the differences, to many that may suffice.

I for one says it most certainly doesn't, that's why they're having to provide a DI to come with you for your first trips with them, as they do handle slightly differently, especially when braking.

We're also meant to be having a day or two's extra training on them according to DFC for "Banging & Clanging" as we call it or coupling & uncoupling practice as it's different to camshaft controlled units, because apparently they won't move under notch 1 (Shunt) & step 1 brake, which you do to ease on to another unit. So until they show or tell me how to do it, someone else can do it.

I'm sorry if some of you have issues with that stance, however if I go and attempt to do something that I haven't been shown how to do or trained to do and something goes wrong or damaged and/or someone gets injured it's me who's in the firing line and me who stands to be taken to court. Nah, sorry, you show me in a controlled & safe environment first, let me practise it a few times, then I'll be happy to do it, not before.

As BR "Old School" I find this weird & topsy turvy way doing things completely unacceptable.

 

[Domh245]

I'm sorry if some of you have issues with that stance, however if I go and attempt to do something that I haven't been shown how to do or trained to do and something goes wrong or damaged and/or someone gets injured it's me who's in the firing line and me who stands to be taken to court. Nah, sorry, you show me in a controlled & safe environment first, let me practise it a few times, then I'll be happy to do it, not before.

As BR "Old School" I find this weird & topsy turvy way doing things completely unacceptable.

Perfectly Justified. I'm slightly surprised that they didn't program the electronics such that the train behaved (near enough) exactly like a camshaft fitted unit, which would have reduced the conversion material somewhat. I am guessing that you are also now forbade from trying to fix traction issues?

 

[158722]

I saw 5870 paired up with 5904 yesterday afternoon at Wimbledon: swear I could've heard the new motors on the latter as well!

5904 reported as having been done too, so youare right.